Who is Orchestrating the Fall of the Churches?, page 1
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reply posted on 20-11-2009 @ 12:36 PM by On the Edge
reply to post by Amagnon



Please understand there is a huge difference between ordinary believers in the gospel of Jesus Christ and the Catholic Religion!!!

Christians have been murdered for not worshipping the Pope! Check history if you doubt it!



reply posted on 20-11-2009 @ 12:47 PM by FortAnthem


[edit on 20-11-2009 by FortAnthem] add content

[edit on 20-11-2009 by FortAnthem]


reply posted on 20-11-2009 @ 01:04 PM by FortAnthem
You should check out the Alta Vendita, The plot to infiltrate the Catholic Church by slowly subverting her teachings to become in-line with Masonic principles;


FEW Catholics know of The Permanent Instruction of the Alta Vendita, a secret document written in the early 19th century that mapped out a blueprint for the subversion of the Catholic Church. The Alta Vendita was the highest lodge of the Carbonari, an Italian secret society with links to Freemasonry and which, along with Freemasonry, was condemned by the Catholic Church. Fr. E. Cahill, S.J. in his book Freemasonry and the Anti-Christian Movement states that the Alta Vendita was “commonly supposed to have been at the time the governing centre of European Freemasonry.” The Carbonari were most active in Italy and France. In his book Athanasius and the Church of Our Time, Bishop Rudolph Graber quoted a Freemason who declared that “the goal [of Freemasonry] is no longer the destruction of the Church, but to make use of it by infiltrating it.”



In other words, since Freemasonry cannot completely obliterate Christ’s Church, it plans not only to eradicate the influence of Catholicism in society, but also to use the Church’s structure as an instrument of “renewal,” “progress” and “enlightenment” to further many of its own principles and goals. An Outline The strategy advanced in The Permanent Instruction of the Alta Vendita is astonishing in its audacity and cunning. From the start, the document tells of a process that will take decades to accomplish. Those who drew up the document knew that they would not see its fulfillment. They were inaugurating a work that would be carried on by succeeding generations of the initiated. The Permanent Instruction says, “In our ranks the soldier dies and the struggle goes on.” The Instruction called for the dissemination of liberal ideas and axioms throughout society and within the institutions of the Catholic Church so that laity, seminarians, clerics and prelates would, over the years, gradually be imbued with progressive principles. In time, this mind-set would be so pervasive that priests would be ordained, bishops would be consecrated and cardinals would be nominated whose thinking was in step with the modern thought rooted in the French Revolution’s Declaration of the Rights of Man and other “Principles of 1789” (equality of religions, separation of Church and State, religious pluralism, etc.).




[edit on 20-11-2009 by FortAnthem]


reply posted on 20-11-2009 @ 01:45 PM by Choronzon
There is a term for this naturally occurring process. It's called Market Saturation.


When the amount of product provided in a market has been maximized in the current state of the marketplace. At the point of saturation, further growth can only be achieved through product improvements, market share gains or a rise in overall consumer demand.

Without appealing to the common man by making changes, the product of Religion-X cannot grow, because it has reach maximum market saturation. (Those who would buy Religion-X have already purchased it).

Because religion is unchanging (fanatically conservative) then it will fail by design.

[edit on 11/20/2009 by Choronzon]


reply posted on 20-11-2009 @ 02:45 PM by Frogs
Lets take them one at a time...

Is church attendance dropping rapidly?


It is heading down at least in the US.

US Church Stats

World Wide Church Attendance

Have the spiritual leaders themselves caused the demise by being deceitful in some way?


Well the various scandals of abuse in the Catholic Church and money & sex scandals in other denominations haven't helped.

Is there too much dissention and division within the churches?


My personal 2 cents is "Yes". Its not uncommon for the various denominations to look down their nose at each other. Maybe you've heard the joke - A guy gets to heaven and he notices a big walled off section. So he asks God - "Who is in there?" God says, "Oh that's the [insert denomination name here]. They think they are the only ones up here."

Is there an upline or outside interferrence causing the churches to crumble?

Do you think the major religions are in free fall?

If so, what do you think is the cause of it?


I'll give my 2 cents on the rest of these all in one go. In free fall, no. In steady decline - yes. The major outisde reason is just change in society. That and failure of the churches themselves to change to meet the needs of today's society are the largest reason for the decline in attendance in my opinion.


reply posted on 20-11-2009 @ 03:01 PM by Alethea
Originally posted by Choronzon
There is a term for this naturally occurring process. It's called
Market Saturation.


When the amount of product provided in a market has been maximized in the current state of the marketplace. At the point of saturation, further growth can only be achieved through product improvements, market share gains or a rise in overall consumer demand.

Without appealing to the common man by making changes, the product of Religion-X cannot grow, because it has reach maximum market saturation. (Those who would buy Religion-X have already purchased it).




I had to laugh out loud when I read this! That is the most logical blunt explanation I have seen. That is a Wall Street Outlook if there ever was one! (Star for you)

After all, churches ARE a corporate business.


reply posted on 20-11-2009 @ 03:09 PM by Frogs
reply to post by Alethea



I gave that one a star as well. I didn't mention it in my post but that is the other reason. In some places I've been there are churches all over the place. Too many for the % of the population that goes to support.

But, it does tie nicely into the need for change. If people no longer want your product you must change something about it - even if the change only amounts to the way it is packaged and presented.





[edit on 20-11-2009 by Frogs]
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