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The invert concept of celestial hierarchy.

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posted on Nov, 20 2009 @ 04:39 AM

Here at the sandbox of philosophy this thread aims to play with the concepts and conceptions of religions. The purpose is not claim anything, just to play around with conceptions. Neither the purpose is not to offend anyone, but perhaps just to provoke a little conversation, if there going to be any.

This is perhaps a philosophical topic rather than a religious one, even it considers the order of creation and concepts of god, angels, demons and other 'supernatural' entities. Please bear in mind, that preceding entities are used in a very broad sense, when 'god' could be meaning merely 'origins of the universe', and the 'angels' could be regarded as a building blocks of it; may as well be regarded as atoms, or as laws of nature.

What if the god (the assumed creator or originator) is not on top, but in the bottom. What if the angels (the messengers and the little helpers of creator) are not above us, but below. And what if the demons (the messed up entities) are not below, but above - or perhaps at the same level with - us?

Sounds stupid? Bear with the explanation: Here we could understand 'god' as a matrix - kind of a base of the universe. While in a sense it would be 'the creator', it would still - in metaphorical sense - lay below us, yet still reaching it's influence into everything.

The conception of angels would then locate itself between the materialized world and the origins of the universe; they would represent something like the laws of the nature. In philosophy and theology, angels are conceived as entities without free will, so it kinda fits the scheme proposed here.

Then we - the humans - amongst the other material beings are the crowing branches (or leaves) of the tree, as it might be suitable to think. The material manifestation is more complex, while going down this 'hierarchy', the entities reduce in complexity, getting more simple.

Then we might think the demons be so messed up in complexity, that they have lost in, drowned in the sea of existence as could be stated metaphorically. They are the unfortunate ones are too complex to be build upon; so they eventually might crash like a house of cards - or a sandcastle. And in this complexity they make irrational decisions and are flawed in continuity.

In order to give more to ponder, all this can be exrpressed in numbers. From zero(0) we begin; it is the matrix, indivisible - it is the emanation from which universe expands and starts to build up in complexity. Then simply - conviniently enough, without any explanations nor reasons - we begin to get more complex numbers that are bound by more complex laws and operations.

The traditional Qabalah presents Kether (the crown, or the first emanation) as number one, and Malkuth (the physical world) as number 10, in it's Tree of Life. The preceding thoughtplay would replace 1 with 0 and 10 with 9.

O well, right now the time is running out in order to continue with this speculation. Perhaps someone can contribute more on it, or critisize it with sharp remarks; all opinions are equally welcome, just don't be the troll of the sandbox.

All the best,


posted on Nov, 20 2009 @ 04:56 AM
Some things you might be interested in:






[edit on 11/20/09 by silent thunder]

posted on Nov, 20 2009 @ 05:06 AM
I just don't understand why religious folks don't get it...

"Without understanding that greedy, power-hungry individuals devised religious dogmas to control and divide the masses, to make God a fearful supreme being whose rules must be obeyed and that those self-serving individuals themselves made those rules, and that much of the information given by God’s true messengers was distorted or omitted in religious books, there can be no spiritual clarity or growth of the soul."
-Matthew, multidimensional being channeled through Suzanne Ward.

posted on Nov, 20 2009 @ 05:11 AM
reply to post by silent thunder

Thanks, will take a look later tonight. For the moment, my time on ATS is up.

Catch you later,


posted on Nov, 21 2009 @ 10:38 AM
Following will hardly receive general approval, but it matters not, for such is something not to be craved. In fact, it is of indifference what the reader may think about it.

In the beginning

Imagine, that in the beginning everything was very simple; In the emptiness existed only a single element - the Singular. Whence it came from, propably no one knows; most likely it has always existed, hence it is eternal. It is the archetype of elements, or the the most fundamental class.

In following presentation, the space (emptiness) is represented by zero (0), which is indivisible. It is the Kether, the crown, which can be understood as domain. Number one (1) represents the Singular, or the Chokmah, wisdom. During the aeons of time, this Singular mutated by the influence of forces that are present in Emptiness. This mutation became independent of Singular, formulating Binah, represented by number two (2). It is then became the "bride" of the Singular. All together, there is the first trinity.

The complexity increases

This first trinity forms the basis of our existence. So in metaphorical sense it lays below us as a matrix. It is the context of life. This could be the first creation, perfectly natural one, consisting force and matter. From here on, the complexity increases, as the two basic elements began to form compounds.

If we think numbers 1 and 2 as elements, would not their addition then be 3, rather third emanation. So, the first two forms a compound which is distinct of them. Then, this third element can form compounds with either one and two or even with both of them (3+1=4 or 3+2=5 or 3+2+1=6). By this way, the complexity in Universe increases - just as it is increasing this very moment. It is called Evolution, not only Biological Evolution, but Universal Evolution!

Concluding, the increase of complexity seems to be an universal phenomenon. Of course, this is should be nothing new, as it can be observed by very little effort.

The ramifications of increasing complexity

We can observe the increasing complexity in almost everything, also in artificial institutions of mankind. We began with just man and woman, evolving in family, followed by tribe and villages, into today's unions of nations, cities and so on. Not only these social institutions are affected by complexity, but also economical and cultural ones.

The complexity also evolves at the biological level; the development of animal intelligence, and at it's apex is consciousness. Our intelligence is nothing but result of this complexity. Our brains with it's myriad of functions are more complex matter than is found in plants for example.

What then happens, when we are not able to cope with the complexity? Burn-outs, schizophrenia, depression and so on at personal level; wars, conflicts, oppression and so on at national level, strange mutations at biological level.

According to preceding, the recent emanations of the creation appears to be further away from their origin, yet they nevertheless are still connected to it - They are what they are meant to be, evolved according to certain laws that governs the dance of the matter. While not wanting to make an definitive opinion whether the increasing complexity is a good or bad thing, there certainly is something to think about.


posted on Nov, 21 2009 @ 10:38 AM

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