I must explain something to you about 2012...

Now, this is going to take some intelligence to grasp, so not everybody will be able to understand it.

To say that something can happen on 2012, when it comes to time or the universe, is impossible and I'll explain to you why.

The universe could have already ended, and you know what?
It wouldn't affect us in anyway.

Saying a major event could happen in 2012, is like saying a major event can occur to you in a trillionth of a millisecond. Nothing can happen to you in a trillionth of a millisecond, the amount of time is so small, it doesn't even exist to us!

On a universal scale, 2012 means nothing, it doesn't exist. The entire human race does not exist!

There is no end because we are only a spec on any dimension in the universe! That includes time!

The universe could have already ended, and it would never affect earth or the human race in anyway what's so ever. Even in a billion years!

You understand?

[edit on 20-11-2009 by SatanChrist]

I apologize now if I seem bashful but we need to rid ourselves of threads like this... are you voicing an opinion or stating a fact/theory, backed by some sort of proof/evidence? If not, I fail to see why even create such a thread.... to state how you THINK the universe has already ended and we don't know it?... I mean, maybe, obviously at this point/nexus, anything is possible, however, I don't think we could be "part" of something that dosent exist or already destroyed itself (for would we not be so as well?) Not sure what you hope to achieve by this thread; props, perhaps? Or just a good argument? Either way, try to utilize ATS server space and other peoples' time as it's very frustrating as this is a purely opinionated thread.... what purpose? We can all discuss possbilities, but what good are they when compared with Truth?

I wonder whether the OP was fully in control of all his faculties when he wrote the post. It seems a bit incoherent and rambling.

If the Universe could have ended already, then what's all this stuff doing here? Shouldn't it be gone or something? I'm pretty sure that if the Universe had ended, someone would have noticed. Or at least, if it did end, we probably wouldn't be sitting around discussing the matter.

That's a radical concept there, good to see people thinking outside the square.

Although, since we are parts of the universe then if it were to "end" we too must end with it.

Perhaps Time is only a consideration and not a Dimension? Personally I think Time does not exist as an entity but rather it seems to exist because we perceive it to. In which case all things may well be happening in the one moment, NOW, and not spread out over an observed length.

reply to post by SatanChrist


I agree with you to a point. You said Universal scale. What about galactic scale? We are apart of this galaxy. Events are always happening in the galaxy. That is why we have NASA. I don't know if anything will happen, but it is very well possible that something could happen. In any given second you have a chance that something will happen or something will not happen. So we have a 50/50 chance.

Ah yes! Time is the great discovery of humanity...or is it merely an invention to facilitate our memories and perceptions and to help make clearer what we might expect in the future? Is time a truth or is truth just another perception we experience in time? As organic beings we experience what seems to be a definite beginning, middle and end and from that linear experience we have come to consider the past, present and future. The past, however, is everything that came before now here and the future is all we expect to come after now here, but it is now here that we are, at any given now here, which fades into the past just as quickly as the now here came.

It is pointless to live in the past as that moment is gone and while we live in the past we miss all that is happening now here. It is pointless to live in the future as those moments have not yet arrived and we miss all that is happening now here. Or, perhaps the past is just the same as now here and the future just the same as now here and all there really is are moments that are all just really now here! As if each moment were just another moment laid directly upon the last moment and directly under the next moment with no real dimension to any moment so as to never truly discern any real construct. Just a series of now's that are right here and now and that is what we have and will always have.

The past is the past and the future is just the future but the present is what we have like a gift of now, a moment we have had pre-sent to us as an opportunity to enjoy the moment now here. Where is that, now here? Remove the space between the two words and what we have is nowhere. At any given moment we have the present here which is nowhere and if that be the case, then it is everywhere and here we are all together now here either experiencing the moment as the present or stuck in the past or anticipating the future.

Nowhere have I experienced the strange and wondrous exhilaration of a now here as I have while enjoying it here on the internet where I join people all here but nowhere and yet everywhere and it is the present moment I experience, this now here. What a strange and wondrous concept this construct of time. What ever the past has wrought, whatever the future might bring, it is now here that is so much fun and so I continue to play in the present like a gift pre-sent to me and wonder who of you will come out to play in this present moment now all ready gone as the next now comes and goes and time marches on. What fear can apocalypse bring when that is somewhere in the future while I am playing here now...now here?

I think you'd be doing yourself a favor to read some L'engle. The books are for kids but do stand up to more mature reading, for the most part.

Basically, size doesn't matter and nor does time. If the universe is as vast and comprehensive as you say, and as I think, then everything matters.


If there were two books I could read to explain the universe to someone, I'd read them some Einstien and Horton Hears a Who.


(I like that quote I just did there)

Originally posted by SatanChrist
Now, this is going to take some intelligence to grasp, so not everybody will be able to understand it.

Pardon my ignorance, I'm going to ask some questions to clarify if I am correctly grasping your explanation.

To say that something can happen on 2012, when it comes to time or the universe, is impossible and I'll explain to you why.

When you say that it is impossible for something to happen do you mean something that affects our perception of time or the very fabric of the universe; or simply something at the specified time of 2012 in the universe as we understand that we live in?

The universe could have already ended, and you know what?
It wouldn't affect us in anyway.

As a quick reference I went to Wikipedia to check out the entry on "the universe" and the first few lines were the following: "The Universe comprises everything we perceive to physically exist, the entirety of space and time, all forms of matter and energy, and the physical laws and constants that govern them." May I assume that your above statement expresses an opinion or knowledge that what we perceive as our physical universe has no bearing on our existence or perception on a whole?

Saying a major event could happen in 2012, is like saying a major event can occur to you in a trillionth of a millisecond. Nothing can happen to you in a trillionth of a millisecond, the amount of time is so small, it doesn't even exist to us!

Again, just trying to clarify, are you saying that an event which we as humans would deem major, such as a massive meteor striking earth or alien contact could not happen? Or are you saying a major event which affects the essence of the universe as a whole could not happen in a short enough time period that would be noticeable to us?

Also, are you saying because we can not perceive a change which occurs in a "trillionth of a millisecond" that no change can occur, or that no change can occur that could have any effect on us, in such a small amount of time?

On a universal scale, 2012 means nothing, it doesn't exist. The entire human race does not exist!

I will concede that the year on our current calender dating 2012 has no meaning outside of the count of the revolutions earth has passed our sun from an arbitrary point in human history. I will also give you, in essence, it does not exist in any reality besides what it represents to us. However, the very fact that you wrote this post and that I responded gives quite a bit of evidence that, at least, to myself I exist. I have been under the assumption (perhaps mistakenly?) that I am a member of the human race.

Perhaps you simply mean that our existence means nothing in a universal scope, to which I would agree. I would agree to that even more so than I would agree that an imperceptible atom does not "exist" in my perceptual reality. But to say that we do not exist at all I will defer to Descartes' "Cogito ergo sum."

There is no end because we are only a spec on any dimension in the universe! That includes time!

The universe could have already ended, and it would never affect earth or the human race in anyway what's so ever. Even in a billion years!

I think I see your point. In a universe or existence that is never changing and all encompasing our reality is just the perception of space and time in a certain order that flows from "past" to "present" to "future", however, we are merely experiencing it, yet not able to change it's essence or outcome? Sorry, I am a bit confused at this point and my attempt at putting it into words may not translate well.

Yet, I am not sure how this would refute the fact that a "major event" could happen to us on the calender date of 2012. Perhaps some defining of your earlier statements would clarify this for me.

You understand?

No, pease elaborate I am very interested in your theory/knowledge.

reply to post by Jean Paul Zodeaux


Well said?

Originally posted by SatanChrist

Saying a major event could happen in 2012, is like saying a major event can occur to you in a trillionth of a millisecond. Nothing can happen to you in a trillionth of a millisecond, the amount of time is so small, it doesn't even exist to us!

[edit on 20-11-2009 by SatanChrist]

Anything can happen to you in a trillionth of a millisecond.

It was very late at night when I posted this if you know what I mean

What I'm trying to say, is that out lives, our years, are such a small amount of time on a universal scale that really nothing could happen to us on a universal scale.

Just like the human race will never experience the sun colliding with Earth. And the sun colliding with earth is not even a major event when it comes to the universe. You understand?

We are just dust in the wind, and that goes for time as well.

And no, nothing can happen to you in a trillionth of a millisecond. I don't think you understand how small that amount of time is, nothing can ever happen in a trillionth of a millisecond. It's so small, it doesn't exist to us.

Just like our entire lives, are so small they don't exist to the universe.

If the universe suddenly stopped expanding, and starting closing in, the human race would never even feel the effects for billions of billions of years.

We are grain of sand, in the dunes of time.

Saying 2012, has some sort of major event when it comes to TIME at least, is impossible. It can still have a major event, about only on a human scale!



[edit on 20-11-2009 by SatanChrist]

2012 isn't going to be the end of the UNIVERSE...sheesh...who told you that...it's merely a time when serious disasters could take place on EARTH...and there is most certainly enough time for something like that to happen...do you have the intelligence to grasp that concept?

I get it. But you realize the entire idea of "Time" was made by us...... right?

I think I do understand. Do you understand that a major event can happen to you in a trllionth of a milla second. You can be shot in the head.
That would be pretty major if you ask me. Now think on a larger scale.
No more typing for you.
Confiscate that keyboard before he inflicts seriuos damage.

[edit on 20-11-2009 by randyvs]

reply to post by SatanChrist


How can you assume that simply because the universe has been around for several billions of years nothing amazing can ever happen on a universal, galactic or planetary scale ever again? Speaking in absolutes about time is rather silly don't you think?

Originally posted by SatanChrist

Saying a major event could happen in 2012, is like saying a major event can occur to you in a trillionth of a millisecond. Nothing can happen to you in a trillionth of a millisecond, the amount of time is so small, it doesn't even exist to us!

Ok, I would have to agree with most of the posters here, but this one thing in particular bugs me. Just because you (or anyone for that matter) can't quantify something does not mean that it doesn't affect you, and it certainly does not mean that it doesn't exist. I can't quantify all of the matter in the universe, yet there it is, and in greater quantities than I can imagine no matter how long I live.

Also, saying that nothing affects us on a human scale is not quite right either. that's like saying an ant can't be drowned by a tsunami because it is unaware of the existence of large waves on such a scale. Just because we are a speck doesn't mean that larger things (some of which would be specks, some more than specks on a universal scale), or things that are specks of dust to us, can't affect us.

**edit for spelling


[edit on 21-11-2009 by ganja]

Its funny when people post things like this.
Thinking they know exactly how the universe/time works.

Your theory doesn't take into account the idea that -- what if the universe is fractal in nature? what if we are all connected to all things and not seperate. look up Quantum entanglement.

You seem to think time exist without an observer. If you where not here to measure time would time exist? Time only exist to that which observes it, Time is relative to the observer or one who measures it.

Is it not possible that a civilization or civilizations new of the cyclical
nature of time or events?
Everything in nature is cyclical -- seasons, menstral cycles, Birth and death, etc...

Why do you think we are seperate from this?
How is something just "Not Possible"?

Just because it does not fit in your paradigm or understanding does not mean it can not exist. Explain to a fruit fly why you use a fork to eat, their is no way a fly would understand but just because it does not understand does not mean that the fork does not exist.

In order to find the truth you must be willling to except all possibilities.
You cannot grab truth from the boxes that only you are willing to except or fit you thinking, you must empty all the boxes out and see all the possibilities.

_Orion

[edit on 23-11-2009 by Orion_grey]