Leaders in Europe about to PICK a president

Originally posted by infinite
5% of the European population can force a debate in the European Parliament , including possible legislation too.

5% would be 25 million, we were told numerous times in the run up to the lisbon referendum that only 1 million signatures are required under the citizens initiative.

has this changed?

Originally posted by infinite
reply to post by AlwaysQuestion

 

Herman van Rompuy promised to be a chairmen, unlike Blair - who wanted to travel the world as a President with real executive power. Germany was worried that a "President Blair" - with political aspiration and ambition - could create potential political damage for certain regions in the European Union.

Yep i agree there, we do not need more cr1p like usa presidents running around dictating to people how to live. Bringing democracy, lol.

Originally posted by PC equals Newspeak
No we don't. We just notice how stupid rules are implemented by a huge bureaucracy that doesn't seem to care what the general public wants or needs.

Thats because the public cant be trusted to do the right thing.. left to our own devices, the vast majority of people in the capitalist system will destroy everything around them in the pursuit of success and or greed.

Originally posted by Dermo
No it's not. The EU pretty much already equals authoritarian dictatorship and nationalism is the only meaningful alternative.

Absolute rubbish, with lisbon.. as well as voting our MEP's, our parliaments have direct involvement with EU policy and the EU parliament is getting more powerful in the overall running of the EU by the day.. AND as the positions become more powerful, the democratic process will be transferred to those positions.. Thats EU policy. Its also EU policy to leave economic and political sovereignty in the hands of member states to a reasonable extent in order to ensure the competitive markets between member states and global players.. Business is business and a successful superstate cannot be run with bad business.

BTW Nationalism is rubbish!!

May I ask where you are from? If its the UK, then I understand your perspective.. I don't agree with it though.

Wrong. We've been losing more and more of our rights for years and this goes way beyond our " right to screw over the less fortunate".

Give me an idea of one.. Just one little simple law/loss of rights that the EU has pushed on us that has nothing to do with Environmentalism or Social fairness/equality..

And don't give me a law that a member state has pushed. I want to hear one of these draconian, authoritarian laws that our evil dictator NWO leaders in the EU have forced on our helpless little souls.

[edit on 20/11/09 by Dermo]

the european leaders just have elected by unanime vote our new president of European Community. Nothing imposed, nothing wrong with that. Herman Van Rompuy is the first president, the new face of Europe community.
He is the Belgian Prime Minister and has to quit national politics on 31/12/2009 to start a new carreer on 1/1/2010. He will be the one who will be phoned by Obama or the Chinese leaders, or Japan when they want to have a European answer to their questions. So he will be more of a unifying person, a consensus seaker, nobody here thinks it the autoritarian way !!!! no way with that !!! Each European country has its own personnality, its own history, but together we try to form a union to have more weight in the world !!!
France and Germany are yet very good friends again, everybody here in Europe is happy with that man becoming President, but it is more a protocol job !! only the british papers did demolish Van Rompuy, but the british are very conservativ and afraid of loosing their identity !! Nothing of that will happen !! Now they also did choose Van Rompuy, that man is very intelligent, clever, not speaking much at all, philosophical, poet also
( haikus ), a man of peace, a man we need to form a better Europ.

reply to post by PC equals Newspeak


wrong wrong wrong !!!! Europ does NOT want to limit freedom of the different people. It is true that it is very burocratic, that will change with the time coming because first the institutions had to be formed and now with a President everything can start working together to make Europ a better place !! Do not forget USA is also very burocratic with Congress and Senate etc etc .... We are also very happy to have the Euro instead of all different money around, without that the financial crisis would have made much more victims and chaos !! So, we Europeans are VERY VERY happy with evolution, but we all have now to be very implicated in continuing construct Europ for ALL !!! LONG LIVE EUROP, LONG LIVE OUR FREEDOM OVER HERE !!

Originally posted by Dermo
Thats because the public cant be trusted to do the right thing.. left to our own devices, the vast majority of people in the capitalist system will destroy everything around them in the pursuit of success and or greed.

I'm not just referring to the underclass of society. I'm referring to educated individuals as well.

Originally posted by Dermo
Absolute rubbish, with lisbon.. as well as voting our MEP's, our parliaments have direct involvement with EU policy and the EU parliament is getting more powerful in the overall running of the EU by the day.. AND as the positions become more powerful, the democratic process will be transferred to those positions.

Even if it would be this simple (which it is not), that doesn't change the fact that most decisions made by the EU do not apply to the actual needs of the public and continue to limit their freedom in many ways.

Originally posted by Dermo
. Thats EU policy. Its also EU policy to leave economic and political sovereignty in the hands of member states to a reasonable extent in order to ensure the competitive markets between member states and global players.. Business is business and a successful superstate cannot be run with bad business.

They do force many legislations that have no support among the general public.

Originally posted by Dermo
BTW Nationalism is rubbish!!

No it's not. Nationalism is essential for any healthy society !

Originally posted by Dermo
May I ask where you are from?

Flanders, which is the Dutch-speaking northern half of Belgium.

Originally posted by Dermo
Give me an idea of one.. Just one little simple law/loss of rights that the EU has pushed on us that has nothing to do with Environmentalism or Social fairness/equality.

I'll have to do some research if you want any details. I just hear pretty much everyone complain about new EU regulations, either from an individual or a professional perspective.

Originally posted by Dermo
And don't give me a law that a member state has pushed. I want to hear one of these draconian, authoritarian laws that our evil dictator NWO leaders in the EU have forced on our helpless little souls.

One example I can think of, is the attempt by the EU to apply draconian censorship laws (so-called "hate laws") in all member states. I'm not sure this has been succesful, though, since I haven't been following the progress.

Originally posted by Sunlionspirit
wrong wrong wrong !!!! Europ does NOT want to limit freedom of the different people.

It has done so from the very beginning and continues to do so.

Originally posted by PC equals Newspeak

One example I can think of, is the attempt by the EU to apply draconian censorship laws (so-called "hate laws") in all member states. I'm not sure this has been succesful, though, since I haven't been following the progress.

Thats not a draconian law and it falls under the category of Social equality.. Sorry

And Im pretty certain it was more of a suggestion, not a legislative procedure.. seeing as the EU really had very little say in issues like that in member states. Now with the human rights bill that Lisbon creates, that law can be easily implemented. But I definitely don't agree with it 100%

I get what you are saying about the EU being detached from the people but their social safety and human rights policies are obviously for the people which is a lot more than not doing anything for the average person.

Everyone will see different things in regards the EU, I see a good and secure future in an ever changing and evolving world. Many of the people on this site see only bad conspiracies surrounding it.. Many of which do not make any sense.

[edit on 20/11/09 by Dermo]

Originally posted by Dermo

Originally posted by PC equals Newspeak

One example I can think of, is the attempt by the EU to apply draconian censorship laws (so-called "hate laws") in all member states. I'm not sure this has been succesful, though, since I haven't been following the progress.

Thats not a draconian law and it falls under the category of Social equality.. Sorry

Censorship of dissident opinions is not draconian? Get real ! !

Originally posted by Dermo
And Im pretty certain it was more of a suggestion, not a legislative procedure.. seeing as the EU really had very little say in issues like that in member states.

The EU can force members to change its legislation and apply fines when members respond too late.

Originally posted by Dermo
I get what you are saying about the EU being detached from the people but their social safety and human rights policies are obviously for the people which is a lot more than not doing anything for the average person.

Their views on "social safety" and "human rights" are not shared by the majority of Europeans.

Originally posted by Dermo
Everyone will see different things in regards the EU, I see a good and secure future in an ever changing and evolving world. Many of the people on this site see only bad conspiracies surrounding it.. Many of which do not make any sense.

Maybe it makes no sense because you're uninformed. I personally see nothing positive whatsoever when I look at the EU.

reply to post by PC equals Newspeak


Uninformed?

Inform me so please because absolutely everything you can tell me, I will have an answer for.

Globalized trade blocs are the evolution of the human civilization.. if you are against them for any reasons other than realistic issues, then you are simply against change and clearly fearful of the unknown.

You should get real

Originally posted by Dermo
Globalized trade blocs are the evolution of the human civilization.. if you are against them for any reasons other than realistic issues, then you are simply against change and clearly fearful of the unknown.

Who says I'm not against them because of real issues, like the exploitation of the Third World, extreme pollution, corrosion of culture, ...

Originally posted by PC equals Newspeak
Who says I'm not against them because of real issues, like the exploitation of the Third World, extreme pollution, corrosion of culture, ...

The EU has forced EU states to cut down on emissions and pollution since the 70's. The rest of the developed world is only catching up now.. and the EU are constantly raising the bar. So tell me how the EU causes pollution?

Tell me how the EU and not member state business is exploiting the Third World.

Corrosion of culture? Nonsense.. the only reason our cultures will be corroded is because of the mass immigration we need because as a result of our population decreasing. How is that the EU's fault? Maybe for creating the markets for the entire continent to become so wealthy that we don't have enough kids.

If anything, the EU gives us more of a sense of identity.. It gives us our State identity and a European identity. Im Irish and European. Not European first, Irish second.

a) as someone said, the EU presidency is not the same as the US presidency. The amount of executive power of the EU president, over each subject of the EU, is rather small. That already makes this a not-so important issue

b) in the US, the presidents aren't directly elected either... We elect members of the electorate college, who PICK the president. At least that's the technicality.

In all, much ado about nothing (but that's what ATS is becoming, sadly).

Originally posted by infinite
5% of the European population can force a debate in the European Parliament , including possible legislation too.

We can try idd, but take for example: we Dutch voted a flaout NO to the European constitution. 2 years later it came anywayz. Without our voice counted in. europe is semi-democratic and becouse the civilans still feal that they have their own language/country it will be difficult to setup a kinda civilian-multi-country movement witch can have some real influence the in the disisions made in the Eu parlement.

[edit on 20-11-2009 by ThraexX]

Originally posted by Dermo
The EU has forced EU states to cut down on emissions and pollution since the 70's. The rest of the developed world is only catching up now.. and the EU are constantly raising the bar. So tell me how the EU causes pollution?

Tell me how the EU and not member state business is exploiting the Third World.

The Eu's constitution cut's down emissions idd, setingup new tax system to make sure that happens.
The Eu's constitution is like the Us also run by lobbyists, therefor making it possible for coörperate buissnessis to exploit 3rd world nations. take 1 example: Royal Dutch Shell, Weopons manufacturing compaginies, and many more.

I agree with PC equals Newspeak, see nothing good about the Eu. Remember that The Netherlands and Belgium are 2 of the founding Eu members, and we have seen our countries change becouse of Eu laws for more then 2 decades now. These are far from the best changes.



regards

reply to post by PC equals Newspeak


you forget that Europ is just trying to take the best of SOME laws in all different countries to try to make European laws the same for everybody, but only if the different countries do agree !! because some laws are so important that it is better to have them equal for all members !!
also for agriculture it is better to have ONE european global position on that, because it is important for the people's health and progress ( milk problem of course, genetic modified food etc .. ).
I really do NOT see Europ as a danger, instead I see it as a fantastic instrument for evolution !!! but the people have to say what they really want and insist by all ways that it gets defended by Europ institution !!!
The farmers did have multiple actions to defend their job in the still continuing milk crisis, Europ did listen, Europ will listen much more and much better in futur !! we must also defend the fact that health care may not become a neo-liberal merchandising profit-generating good, it must remain a human axed care about other human beings etc etc ....

Nigel Farage, great speaker from Britain, exposing those sons of biatches in the EU and the nomination of that witch... and the president of EU...



He's my new hero.