Hey, preacher – leave those kids alone

The final phase of the atheist bus campaign will challenge the idea that children can be labeled with their parents' religion

This week, the final phase of the atheist bus campaign will appear in London, Edinburgh, Cardiff and Belfast – not on buses, but on billboards. Due to the amazing sums donated to the campaign fund by many Cif readers at the end of last year, we raised enough for a second wave of adverts – and the above posters will launch today.

Link article www.guardian.co.uk...

www.arianesherine.com...#/atheist-bus-campaign/4532331653

reply to post by moocowman


Ah great... first the Missionaries came, now the Atheists are preaching too.

Why do atheists care so much ... is it becoming a form of religion too? As in: I am an Atheist. I don't believe in God . All Hail Non-Belief! If you disagree with my right to Non-Belief I reserve the right to invade your country and deconvert you.

Originally posted by deltaalphanovember
reply to post by moocowman

 

Ah great... first the Missionaries came, now the Atheists are preaching too.

Why do atheists care so much ... is it becoming a form of religion too? As in: I am an Atheist. I don't believe in God . All Hail Non-Belief! If you disagree with my right to Non-Belief I reserve the right to invade your country and deconvert you.

Perhaps it could be just a simple case of attempting to protect the rights of children.

Originally posted by moocowman

Originally posted by deltaalphanovember
reply to post by moocowman

 

Ah great... first the Missionaries came, now the Atheists are preaching too.

Why do atheists care so much ... is it becoming a form of religion too? As in: I am an Atheist. I don't believe in God . All Hail Non-Belief! If you disagree with my right to Non-Belief I reserve the right to invade your country and deconvert you.

Perhaps it could be just a simple case of attempting to protect the rights of children.

No... not really, it's more of a contempt and hatred of God and Christianity.

hey MOOCOWMAN - silly moo

south end , north bound .

God doesn't believe in non-believers . When you die your soul has an
interview with God . yours will be brief .

[edit on 19-11-2009 by radarloveguy]

reply to post by moocowman


Children have parents not simply to buy them video games and designer clothing. It is the parents' right and responsibility to raise their children to the best of their knowledge and ability.

Just as I would never suggest that religion be forced on anyone, I cannot and will not subscribe to any government law that forbids it either.

Raising a child is no easy task. parents reply on their own upbringing and life experience to do this. In some cases, this will include the passing along of the family faith. Once the child has reached the age of majority, he or she can discard items of upbringing they feel apt to discard. But until that time, the child is still a child and is not in a position, either intellectually or legally, to make these choices on their own.

Perhaps if we were all hatched from eggs in a laboratory fully grown, removing faith would be an option. But to enforce your beliefs on parents is no better than having their religion forced upon you.

A tyranny is a tyranny, regardless of the face it wears.

Have a nice day

reply to post by Fromabove

No... not really, it's more of a contempt and hatred of God and Christianity.

Hm, contemplating hating something that one finds no evidence of appears to require a great deal of extra calories.

reply to post by radarloveguy

When you die your soul has an interview with God . yours will be brief .

Needless to say you have evidence of this, or is it just something you would have children believe ?

I agree with the poster, and it is how I parent. I tell my children of my beliefs if they ask, and have made it clear that their relationship to a higher power or not and the form that takes is their own business when they become adults.

reply to post by moocowman


There is no evidence of God, one way or the other, and the many, and I do mean MANY Gods in history, just the one we know about, practically outnumber the people of the time. In my considered opinion, all of these Gods were in fact ET beings, not Gods.

I will agree that there is some kind of creative force that creates things...that I will give anyone, but as for having a human personality, and human emotions, I highly doubt that.
As for "seeing God," I have seen just such a being one time, and for all the world he did look the part, all golden with a big honking crown...but upon heavy questioning, he admitted that he was not a God, but an Annunaki, and then he told me they had created religion as we know it to exist.

For my own belief, we are all Gods and Goddesses in training.

reply to post by moocowman


first of all, what do you think of this new evolution of the poster campaign? you haven't said.

personally, i think this is a step to far.

seriously, trying to tell other people how to raise their children, attempting to modify the publics moral compass, athiests are starting to look like the worst of the self-righteous self-styled moral guardian evangelicals.

mary whitehouse for the 21st century, objecting to godliness instead of sexiness. will internet mass be the new internet porn?

Perhaps it could be just a simple case of attempting to protect the rights of children.

So long as the children choose not to go to church right?

I liked the article i lol'd

As Richard Dawkins states, "Nobody would seriously describe a tiny child as a 'Marxist child' or an 'Anarchist child' or a 'Post-modernist child'. Yet children are routinely labelled with the religion of their parents. - from story

It reminds me of when christians sat "the bible says".

So what athiests are going for is taking god out of everything unless of course it is something like the God Delusion. So an athiests version of free speech is "i can say what i want about god,the church and religion but you can't talk about your views because it is shoving god down my throat. And any attempt of yours to talk will be discredited because you are religious and therefore have an agenda"

www.justgiving.com...
and like the Christians someone needs saving but we need your money more.

We are currently campaigning (amongst other things):
- for balanced teaching about different beliefs and values in our state schools

So they want fair and balanced but no religion in school???? Once again the athiests want it one way they want their side to be the only side. Kind of like a communist election.
"hmmmm should i vote for Joseph Stalin or Joe Stalin" And what do you know stalin wins, and oh yeah he was an athiest and killed millions.

[edit on 19-11-2009 by zaiger]

Originally posted by zaiger
So they want fair and balanced but no religion in school???? Once again the athiests want it one way they want their side to be the only side. Kind of like a communist election.
"hmmmm should i vote for Joseph Stalin or Joe Stalin" And what do you know stalin wins, and oh yeah he was an athiest and killed millions.

Uhh, that's not what he/she said:

We are currently campaigning (amongst other things):
- for balanced teaching about different beliefs and values in our state schools

Read it again, dude.

Oh, and Stalin didn't kill people in the name of atheism. There's a big difference between him and, say, the Crusaders who actually slaughtered countless people in the name of Christ. Or radical violent Islamists who blow up buses in the name of Allah.

I was brought up in a highly religious family. I even married a preachers daughter (and subsequently divorced her).
Eventually I chose to suspend belief in a higher power until further evidence can be put forward.

My parents belief gave me and my siblings the foundation of right and wrong but did not twist us, harm us or otherwise corrupt us.

As adults we all chose our paths. These paths may or may not deviate from the traching of our parents.

The same people who tell parents not to force religion on their parents often blame the parents when they do not enforce some kind of parental teachings/supervision/discipline.

So tell me ... what should a parent do? Just make them and then leave them to find their own way through the maze?

reply to post by pieman

first of all, what do you think of this new evolution of the poster campaign? you haven't said.

Evolution, nice choice of words. To be honest I don't think this will be the end of this campaign, although I do think it's a step in the right direction.

Campaigns such as these are a response to continuing interference by religion in our schools and society and a chunk of it aimed at our children.


We currently have a law in the UK that commands schools (publicly funded) to conduct "collective worship" the instruction to the school as to what deity is to be worshiped is that the worship is to be "broadly Christian".

I have made several attempts to have the authorities responsible clarify which deity they expect the schools to worship but cannot get a straight answer other than the "broadly christian thing".


Although the authorities decline to clarify what "broadly christian" they did go on to point out that there are 2 types of worshiping the "broadly christian" deity.

Apparently there is corporate worship, this is the type of worship that goes on in a church where people read from scriptures and pray to a man in the sky.

Then there is collective worship which involves the children er well, being read to from scriptures and praying to a man in the sky.

As I've mentioned the man in the sky that is being worshiped (albeit collectively) is the christian man in the sky (albeit broadly) and I've also learned of late by from the same crazy people that present this madness to me that, worship does not rally mean worship.

Apparently the nut job presiding over my children s education, implies that worship does not necessarily mean worship but has a slightly different definition . When I pushed the deluded dude on this matter he developed a serious case of , "I wasn't expecting that question syndrome" and proceeded to talk gibberish, otherwise known as speaking in tongues and complained he was late for a meeting.

Hm

These people are also now attempting to introduce Alpha courses and such into our schools, which is totally unacceptable, not just to me but to a surprisingly large number of parents that are sick and tired of the relgionists .

personally, i think this is a step to far. seriously, trying to tell other people how to raise their children, attempting to modify the publics moral compass, athiests are starting to look like the worst of the self-righteous self-styled moral guardian evangelicals.

But this very thing you dislike is exactly what religion is doing, in the case I've mentioned the "broadly christian" religion.
No one is attempting to modify the public moral compass, an adult an follow any compass they choose and I would defend that right.

This has nothing to do with morals A child can learn moral values without being labeled.

It is totally unacceptable to try and build social cohesion within our young and at the very same time label them resulting in separation and segregation.

mary whitehouse for the 21st century, objecting to godliness instead of sexiness. will internet mass be the new internet porn?

Mary whitehouse had here values , but they were not my values Mary Whitehouse had here beliefs but they were not my beliefs.
My children are incorporating my values and learning their own as our society evolves. Should they wish to develop beliefs later in life when they mature of mind so be it, and hopefully they will have acquired critical thinking skills by then.

How we raise our children is really up to us the parents, whether we apply the jesusyahweh gods values or the allaha gods values ets is down to us but labeling the child as a product of those values is only sending the message to the child that no other values are acceptable which can be a life long curse.

Simple observation will teach us a great deal, Christians for example are pulling out all the stops to try and "Save" people, ie change their current label to the xtian label.

What is it may I ask, that is so different between an muslim attempting to get an xtian child to grow up wearing the muslim label and secularists encouraging people not to label their children ?

Originally posted by moocowman
We currently have a law in the UK that commands schools (publicly funded) to conduct "collective worship" the instruction to the school as to what deity is to be worshiped is that the worship is to be "broadly Christian".

it's not mandatory, you can withdraw your child from it if you have such a strong view on the subject.

All maintained schools must provide daily collective worship for all registered pupils (apart from those who have been withdrawn from this by their parents). This is usually provided within daily assembly.

source

the broadly christian element means that you should say prayers common to all christian religions, probably the "our father" and maybe sing a hymn.

But this very thing you dislike is exactly what religion is doing, in the case

and i dislike it when christians do it. you shouldn't justify your actions according to what others do, that kind of moral relativism is one of the worst aspects of atheism.

No one is attempting to modify the public moral compass, an adult an follow any compass they choose and I would defend that right.

yes they are, in your guardian link they quote the campaign team as saying

rather than using adverts to try and campaign politically, we thought it would be more beneficial to try and change the current public perception that it is acceptable to label children with a religion.

in effect, they wish to modify peoples moral compasses in regard to weather or not it is acceptable to allow children to participate in church.

It is totally unacceptable to try and build social cohesion within our young and at the very same time label them resulting in separation and segregation.

so are you saying that it is unacceptable to you if i raise my child as part of a christian church?

My children are incorporating my values and learning their own as our society evolves.

so you have you told you children there is no god? about "xians" and "jesusyawahgod"? why is your form of indoctrination superior to that of a religous families? if you speak to your children about christians in a manner that you speak about them here, won't you just teach them that believing in god is unacceptable, that there is a separation between religious and non-religious?

reply to post by pieman



Originally posted by moocowman
We currently have a law in the UK that commands schools (publicly funded) to conduct "collective worship" the instruction to the school as to what deity is to be worshiped is that the worship is to be "broadly Christian".

it's not mandatory, you can withdraw your child from it if you have such a strong view on the subject.

Well indeed, I send my child to school for an education not to be subject to other peoples insistence of conducting their religious practices at the school.

Withdrawing my child has nothing to do with a "strong view" it is simply a choice forced upon individuals . However here we see the insidiousness of xtianity in action.

In order for individuals to not have their children indoctrinated into bronze age cults, the child is then segregated which is totally unacceptable and potentially harmful to the child .

All maintained schools must provide daily collective worship for all registered pupils (apart from those who have been withdrawn from this by their parents). This is usually provided within daily assembly.

Indeed, so every tax payer must fund the xtian agenda of influencing a "captive" audience of "other peoples children"

the broadly christian element means that you should say prayers common to all christian religions, probably the "our father" and maybe sing a hymn.

The operative word being "Should" so much for free will that xtianity expounds , this situation is of course unless the educators and an element og the governors happen to be Muslim.

Then the legal requirement can be simply ignored, after all it would conflict with the human rights of this group, so it would then be up to the xtian parents who have "strong views" on Islam to segregate their own child.

in effect, they wish to modify peoples moral compasses in regard to weather or not it is acceptable to allow children to participate in church.

Church is not mentioned, nevertheless I take it you have no objection to a child being raised as a muslim or a satanist or pagan and that you would have no objection to my children spending a sunday and their "assembly" time at school worshiping satan.

so are you saying that it is unacceptable to you if i raise my child as part of a christian church?

No, what I'm saying is, it is unacceptable to label a persons who are to immature to evaluate for themselves. Unless of course you take your child to a mosque or synagogue etc to teach them that there is a broad spectrum of beliefs for them to choose from should the decide to when they are mature enough to for whatever reason want to.

so you have you told you children there is no god? about "xians" and "jesusyawahgod"?

As a matter of fact I don't raise the matter unless the kids ask, I don't know that there's not a creator of all that there is but neither is there any proof that there is.

Both my kids understand this, and if there is a god that wants to clarify the situation both the kids and myself are unanimous that it can contact them on a personal level at anytime.

Very often kids will ask something and when the response takes up more time than a commercial break on TV they lose interest pretty quick.

Kids like yes/ no , this or that answers they accept I don't knows but look to the parent to find out. By removing labels we encourage our children to find out for themselves.

The whole point being kids don't need gods they need their parents to help them learn to evaluate and think critically.

"Dad are there Ghosts" ?

"I don't know, "

"What do you think Dad ?"

"I've never seen one but that doesn't mean that there aren't as other people claim they have seen things"

"Talk later Dad, scooby doo is on"

why is your form of indoctrination superior to that of a religous families?

I don't indoctrinate my kids and am not religious so that is a false assumption.

if you speak to your children about christians in a manner that you speak about them here, won't you just teach them that believing in god is unacceptable

,


My children have made some very profound observations at an early age, in that should they not choose to worship a particular deity of a group of people, they will be discriminated against.

In relation to believing, my children are being raised to to believe whatever they wish, but it is wiser to have an opinion as they can be changed much easier without damage to the ego.

that there is a separation between religious and non-religious?

It would appear that quantum physics seem to be indicating that separation in itself is but an illusion.

It's surprising how much kids will pick up when there's nothing on TV lol

reply to post by moocowman


sorry guy, i think you're fudging the issue.

you have passed on your personal beliefs to your children, trying to claim they came up with their ideas independently is a load of crap and we both know it.



just on a side note, seeing as you have such a great issue with christianity and all its trapping, especially childrens participation in it, i assume there's no christmas at your house?

reply to post by pieman

Fudging the issue lol

just on a side note, seeing as you have such a great issue with christianity and all its trapping, especially childrens participation in it, i assume there's no christmas at your house?

We have a jolly old time at xmas, and yes my kids are fully aware that Christmas, contrary to many xtians belief does not signify the birth of the god man jesus.

Christmas as you are probably aware is a Pagan holiday hijacked by christianity in order to absorb the pagans, not unlike conducting "broadly " christian worship at school.

What is interesting is the amount of Christians using christmas trees, which is part of the pagan tradition. It would appear that this practice is in complete contradiction to the rules of the xtian god.

Jeremiah 10 makes it quite clear that the heathen practice of hanging xmas trees is outright Idolatry (idolatree ? I can feel festive thread and poster campaign coming on lol) and is not tolerated.

Correct me if I'm wrong (as I can be) but if the gospel jesus was a real character he would have been born late march April no, unless yet another jesus is being alluded to ?

Needless to say I'm sure those of Pagan faith have no troubles with xtians promoting paganism, (albeit at a subliminal )level within schools to christian children.

It would be fair to say that around xmas time schools do indeed incorporate other beliefs then, well the pagan belief, and assemblies become "Broadly xtian" and "broadly pagan".

Originally posted by moocowman
reply to post by Fromabove

 

No... not really, it's more of a contempt and hatred of God and Christianity.

Hm, contemplating hating something that one finds no evidence of appears to require a great deal of extra calories.

Not really... people hate political ideas all the time and even the thoughts of others, yet you can't touch or feel either one...