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A Point by Point Refutation of all 2012 Theories

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posted on Nov, 19 2009 @ 01:07 AM
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I left no stone unturned in my 1 hr long presentation that completely debunkes all 2012 theories!

Whether your a Enlightenment-er or a Doomsday-er your going to HATE this.

You can see the whole thing in one part here the2012deception.net...








To download this presentation in mp4 format conspiracyclothes.com...
If you would like to download the power point presentation without my commentary the2012deception.net...

If you would prefer a cliff notes version to this refutation (as this presentation is an hour long) you can view a video that I made last year called 2012 Debunked. the2012deception.net...

a few areas hit:

History of 2012 theories
Mayan Calender
• Galactic Alignment: Astrological
Caused by the 26,000 year precession cycle and resulting in calamity or an evolution of consciousness.
• Galactic Alignment: Astronomical
Caused by the solar system crossing the galactic plane and resulting in calamity and/or enlightenment.
• Pole Shift (Magnetic and/or Physical)
• Niburu, Planet X, An asteroid
Resulting in collision or near miss
• Solar flares
Will cause the poles to shift or other effects.
• Planetary Alignment (Actual and/or Conjunctions)
• Earth passing through a nebula
Will change vibrational frequencies and cause enlightenment

We hit Hapgoods theory of Earth Crust displacement as well as John Major Jenkins Mayan ball game symbolisim.

I also give a pretty crazy theory about why I think we are all being lied to so badly about this stuff.

This is a response at least in some part to the new movie 2012 by Sony directed by Roland Emmerich. The film has an ensemble cast, including John Cusack, Amanda Peet, Danny Glover, and Woody Harrelson. It can be considered a review of the movie as well as an explanations of the specific theories proposed in that movie.



[edit on 19-11-2009 by Amenti]

[edit on 19-11-2009 by Amenti]




posted on Nov, 19 2009 @ 02:32 AM
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Nice presentation!

However I was a little surprised with this statement, "The number of flares (and sunspots) varies over time in an approximate eleven-year cycle. At this point there's no reason to anticipate a particularly bad cycle." (3 of 6 @ 5:00) In contradiction to the following news broadcast:



Also your date of the first 2012 reference is a bit off. The first claim that I know of is from the "Law of One" in 1981.

There's also no discussion of Terrence McKenna's relationship to this whole fiasco (@2m20s).



I think you also start to jeoparadize your message when you cite Biblical prophecy as authorative over say another religious source. Since you're willing to delve in to the spirtual side of all this, you might want to tackle Drunvalo Melchizedek's claims of working directly with the National Mayan Council of Elders of Guatemala and the Mayan council's advocacy of a near-term change in consciousness in and around the 2012-time frame (with about a 5 year window according to Drunvalo).

Other than those minor nits, and your religious bias, you put together a smashingly good presentation showing a rational counter-argument to all the fluff that's out there.



posted on Nov, 19 2009 @ 02:43 AM
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I will admit I only watched some of this and not the entirety. This is because I already know you are right in what you are presenting. This 2012 stuff is bunk. I realized it was bunk when I watched Ian Lungold.

This is an elaborate wave of the wand to make people think some big event is further down the road, when the fact is, this big event is right in front of your face now. It has nothing to do with anything out in space.

The pole tip is also metaphorical. A shift in powers is the plan, but it's not a physical displacement of geographic locations. The stage is set.

As long as people are distracted by looking further out toward the horizon, they will not see the snare pit in front of them that they are about to fall into.



[edit on 19-11-2009 by Alethea]



posted on Nov, 19 2009 @ 02:51 AM
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of most people in the world dont give credence to any kind of event for 2012, let alone even consider it or talk about it, much at all, then i ask, what is the need to go to so much trouble to debunk it?

i ask to learn!

[edit on 19-11-2009 by neosceptic]



posted on Nov, 19 2009 @ 03:21 AM
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reply to post by Xtraeme
 


You video was worth seeing just to see Michio Kaku go " BoingOingOingOingOing!"

I'm still laughing my butt off!

EDIT

I just finished watching. Interesting theory about the end times. BTW, you have a few seconds toward the end of # 5 that has audio cut out.

As for the Elect, the next time they see Jesus unless they see him coming in the sky with a host of angels they will know it's a false Christ. Then the next thing to happen is the Christians will be raptured. There is simply no way any of the Elect is going to believe anyone is the Christ himself no matter how many miracles he does if he is a man walking and talking in the flesh. Even if this being is an Alien or a Demon-angel of light - the Elect will see right through it because, The Holy Spirit will reveal this deception to them. This is because the Holy Spirits job is to lead into all truth.

That said, I believe there Will be an enlightenment. I believe on Dec 22th when everyone wakes up in the morning and nothing special happened and they realize they have been had boy won't they be enlightened!

[edit on 19-11-2009 by JohnPhoenix]

[edit on 19-11-2009 by JohnPhoenix]



posted on Nov, 19 2009 @ 03:27 AM
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Well, Maya this, Maya that, there are not just maya, there are all kinds of ancients speaking of cyclic events over periods of time, and if we sadly enough should find our self in such an event, would not sitt well with any one, I dont like the idea of disasters, I live in a part of the world where nothing happends ever, so if things should happen, I'd totally freak out..

But, there are things that are being discover jus the last few years and months that science cant explain in a hurry as it goes against their previous 'theories' and especially against 'accepted' science.

Have a look at this, 2 hours, but you'll learn something that you probably havent heard before...Knowledge is power, and here you'll get a boost.



Dr Paul LaViolette is the measured counterpart to Patrick Geryl, whose interview we have released simultaneously. A brilliant and maverick astrophysicist, Paul is best known for his research into a new theory of matter he calls Subquantum Kinetics - based on systems theory, which he studied for his PhD thesis - and for his carefully argued hypothesis, first formulated in 1983, that our galactic center periodically emits devastating waves he termed superwaves.

Galactic superwaves are intense cosmic ray particle bombardments that originate from the center of our Galaxy, and that last for periods of up to a few thousand years. Paul explains that astronomical and geological evidence indicates that the last major superwave impacted our solar system around 12,000 to 16,000 years ago, and produced abrupt changes of the Earth's climate.

The land animal extinction episode which occurred during this interval was the worst in several million years, and Paul estimates that approximately one or two superwaves strong enough to trigger an ice age are presently on their way to us from their birthplace at the galactic core... 23,000 light years away. Paul states that there is a real chance that one such event could arrive within the next few decades. Importantly - because they travel at the speed of light - we would not see them coming.

Paul explains that less intense superwaves, which recur with considerable frequency, could also pose a threat. He cites evidence that the galactic center has erupted as many as ten times in the last 2,000 years, the most recent event occurring about 700 years ago. While these low intensity events could have passed unnoticed in earlier centuries, today they could be extremely hazardous. The EMP [electromagnetic pulse] accompanying such a superwave could knock out electrical power grids and communication networks on a global scale. Consequently, argues Paul, study of this phenomenon deserves a very high priority, and he founded The Starburst Foundation to do this.

Of some considerable interest is the testimony from our insider source Jake Simpson, who told us in October 2008 that there was a 'wave' coming - but that it would not arrive here for quite a few years: possibly around 2017-2020. When asked how he knew, his response was that highly advanced and classified superluminal [faster-then-light] craft had been out to "take a look", and had then returned to report back with the information. Jake told us that the effect could either be cataclysmic, or "just a puff of wind"... and that exactly what would happen, and when, was simply not known.

Of interest also is the anonymous testimony from a senior Electrical Engineer, whose wife contacted us in April 2009 to report an anticipated major breakdown of national power supplies a few years from now. These reports - and others (such as that from Dan Sherman) - all weave together to form an unsettling picture. While we have said separately that we do not agree with Patrick Geryl's conclusions, it does seem that the Earth, and the human race, may possibly be in for a bit of a rough ride... from a number of different causes.


[edit on 19/11/2009 by ChemBreather]



posted on Nov, 19 2009 @ 03:45 AM
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its as though one cant accept the fact that everythings going to # and something must and WILL happen.. 2012 or not, its happening, and probably close or around that date. Do some research on this last recent w.america asteroid thing, see how often that happens. # from space is gettin closer to smashin into us, in 2001 we saw them streak across the sky, in 2009 they rumble the ground and light up the night. that ALONE is cause for concern. il watch your vids tonight, whatever it is that they try to convey. The world is in need of change, let us believe it will happen, and it will.

good day all


aLaN


p.s. the first video didnt impress me (i had to see..), going on about how the calendar worked? you know how it worked? u seem to know alot...very humble of you to speak as though you know, when ure not certain bout any of it. What do you know about mayan beliefs? the cyclic nature of time? what about their pyramids on nine levels? the nine underworlds? the dates of every phase of consciousness evolution which coincide (how uncanny) with out recorded history? Ide appreciate if you had tackled these more 'factual' issues... stuff that people examined studied and concluded upon based on material they collected etc. the 9 levels in particular, what they built most/if not all of their pyramids by.

Dont be scared... this happened and will happen again, and probably sooner than you think. If 2012 wont do anytin we will, its inevitable, and you know it.



[edit on 19-11-2009 by madness]



posted on Nov, 19 2009 @ 04:49 AM
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Originally posted by madness
its as though one cant accept the fact that everythings going to # and something must and WILL happen.. 2012 or not, its happening, and probably close or around that date. Do some research on this last recent w.america asteroid thing, see how often that happens. # from space is gettin closer to smashin into us, in 2001 we saw them streak across the sky, in 2009 they rumble the ground and light up the night. that ALONE is cause for concern. il watch your vids tonight, whatever it is that they try to convey. The world is in need of change, let us believe it will happen, and it will.

good day all


aLaN


p.s. the first video didnt impress me (i had to see..), going on about how the calendar worked? you know how it worked? u seem to know alot...very humble of you to speak as though you know, when ure not certain bout any of it. What do you know about mayan beliefs? the cyclic nature of time? what about their pyramids on nine levels? the nine underworlds? the dates of every phase of consciousness evolution which coincide (how uncanny) with out recorded history? Ide appreciate if you had tackled these more 'factual' issues... stuff that people examined studied and concluded upon based on material they collected etc. the 9 levels in particular, what they built most/if not all of their pyramids by.

Dont be scared... this happened and will happen again, and probably sooner than you think. If 2012 wont do anytin we will, its inevitable, and you know it.
[edit on 19-11-2009 by madness]


Madness, I have not heard about any of these things you mentioned. Can you provide references for each of them for me so i can look into them? Thanks.



posted on Nov, 19 2009 @ 05:18 AM
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Forgive the blandness, at work cant get too involved but heres a link to the depiction with brief xplanation. Please do look into it yourself, study it get to the bottom of it.
I fail to believe that all this information has been manufactured or dreamt up, this is info gathered by people who dedicated their lives studying the maya. Maybe theyre all loonies? The Mayans seemingly believed in this evolution, and il be damned if they got the last phase wrong. They didnt.

www.redicecreations.com...


good day friend, keep smiling =)

aLaN

p.s. first time i linked an url.. hope its ok



posted on Nov, 19 2009 @ 06:19 AM
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I watched 5 and 6 of the videos now. Your thoughts validate the same thoughts I have had myself.

Religions are being exposed for the lies and twisted agendas many of them have had. But...lets look beyond that. Who are the ones bringing this to the forefront? Are they not the Illuminati pawns themselves? Is the Illuminati not the upline of the churches?

It is those at the top who are presenting the fallacies of religion.

Oh, many of us have seen these lies through unanswered questions and have had our differences with church dogma over the years. But to speak out would mean social ostracism, even disrespect, and cut off from our own families. It has never been OK to voice opposition to the all powerful church.

Those who have been wise to the false doctrines were often recruited into "other type" organizations and made to believe they were chosen for being "intellectually superior". Those organizations which played to ego and vanity are just as much a snare as the false doctrine. People who expected an intellectual journey and promise of finding answers to the mysteries have found themselves bound by oath and threat instead.

Those who fall outside of the bee hive mentality are either recruited or killed.

It is the Capstone entities themselves who are guiding the Illuminati pawns to become active now in order to bring down the religious and political structures they have created.

I tend to think these "Capstone entities" are those in direct contact with these evil ET's and take their instruction from them.

All that is happening now has not been by chance. It has been planned for a very long time. The Evil Ones have known this system could not always maintain control. It always seems that as people get wise to the lies and intent, there is a great upheaval every few generations to destroy those who see and to implement a new structural change. I guess you could say the snake gets a facelift.

The scriptures say satan is always transforming to an angel of light. ("always" indicates this is an ongoing thing, not a one-time end times deal) So with every facelift, it looks like a positive move for humankind. The lies always appear to be impending disaster of some sort if one does not act now. And the solutions are always sugar coated. (Save the planet--kill the useless)

These Illuminati shills are the very ones that many people here are getting their information from. These people can give you the details of all the deceits that have kept you in the dark. Why? Because that has been priveliged information to them. And now, with their "exposure" videos and publications and news shows, they are developing a following of devotees.

They are no better than those they expose and they are using the same tactics. Listen closely and you will see that although they "expose the truth"
IT IS STILL MIXED WITH LIES. When truth is mixed with a lie, the lie gains strength.

The Illuminati themselves have instigated the fall of Babylon. And it is not done without a plan to set up a new institution.

I speculate that this new institution will be headed by those who will call themselves the Sons of God, The Elect, the 144,000, the Christ Consciousness, the Melchizedek class.....one of those names that will appeal to the various groups that will be left.

The new direction will be to build a Paradise earth out of the contaminated rubble and to return to the Noahide laws as this will be proclaimed to be The Age of Judgements.

It will be too late when people realize that the Genie has tricked them again!



[edit on 19-11-2009 by Alethea]



posted on Nov, 21 2009 @ 11:16 AM
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reply to post by Xtraeme
 


about the i-ching:




The reality is McKenna utilized a pattern of his own invention to create a timeline of his own invention, and then predicted world events that had already happened.

the2012deception.net...



posted on Nov, 21 2009 @ 12:21 PM
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Originally posted by Amenti
reply to post by Xtraeme
 


about the i-ching:


The reality is McKenna utilized a pattern of his own invention to create a timeline of his own invention, and then predicted world events that had already happened.

the2012deception.net...


Sadly that article reads heavily of snark and less like fact. There's clearly insinuation McKenna manipulated the predictive system to coincide with past events in a less than honest manner. However what McKenna described was more of an abstract system than a specific implementation of a fortune-telling instrument. This is why numerous people use different sequences (King Wen vs. Watkins vs. the Sheliak derivation) to generate plots.

Also consider if I were to reword the above statement like so, "The reality is Sir Isaac Newton utilized a pattern of his own invention to create a timeline of his own invention, and then predicted physical movements that had already happened." See how the argument falls apart? It's little more than an ad hominem attack.

The best argument made on the 2012deception page is this:


After all, there’s enough bad sh%$ in human history that you could probably correlate several large scale catastrophes right alongside the peaks and valleys of a line graph showing Disney’s stock price over the last decade.


A discussion of probability is a better way to analyze the statistical likeliness of McKenna's timewave program accurately mimicking novel and not-so novel historical events. The part of this that's somewhat hard to know is how do we objectively answer, "what is novel?" To evaluate this would require sampling a large set of people to put together some form of norm to minimize personal bias when measuring events that should appear as troughs / peaks on the plot. Once you have that sort of data-set it would be easy to do a simple chi-square test to see if McKenna's Timewave zero program is statistically anomalous in its accuracy of predicting past events.

I should also point out that whoever wrote the article clearly doesn't understand McKenna's conception of "novelty." Things that are novel almost always run inversely against destruction.

The invention of the PC. The founding of America. These are novel events. The creation of the atom bomb, sadly, can be considered novel, but it's harder to say the deployment of it was anything different from past catastrophes.

The realization that the person who wrote the above article doesn't seem to understand the usage of McKenna's meaning for novelty makes me further think that the author simply was speaking from personal bias rather than any form of honest inquiry.

[edit on 21-11-2009 by Xtraeme]



posted on Nov, 21 2009 @ 12:59 PM
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One thing I find strange is how he dismisses that planetary objects are in line because they only appear to be in line from Earth.

Lets use Google Earth as an example. Lets say two cities line up from a particular view. If you move the camera, they no longer line up.

So by using that logic, nothing EVER lines up in the universe. Two objects are never beside each other either, because they are only appearing to be beside each other from our particular point of view (which is not valid according to the debunk video above).

Pretty cool. So Im not really in front of my computer either, I just appear to be.

I love that perspective. Makes the world impossible to describe. Fuzzy stuff.



posted on Nov, 21 2009 @ 01:15 PM
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Umm, what happened to the first post in this thread?

Its missing now...



posted on Dec, 1 2009 @ 03:26 AM
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Not bad - but, not all-encompassing by any stretch!



posted on Dec, 1 2009 @ 07:47 PM
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I thought your presentation was brilliant, and I think many of us could learn how to present ideas and arguments from you. The articulation of your presentation was for the most part lucid, very well developed and coherent throughout. The only criticism I have is of some of the content, but for the most part even the content was compelling and certainly enlightened me against some of the common theories about 2012.

A few critical points and arguments:

1. You argue that the planetary aligenment is only a perceptual thing, not a physical shift. You state that it will only look like all the planets have aligned on 2012 from Earth, but it will not look like this from the moon or from another celestial body in space. This was a rather silly point to be honest, because it makes sense that if the Mayans were really expecting a planetary aligenment in 2012, they would be expecting it from earth's perspective and not from the moons perspective, because they are obviously watching from Earth.

If they indeed predicted this it suggests very advanced astronomical knowledge, or at least based on my limited understanding of astronomy, that does seem to be amazing. However, as you rightly point out in your presentation they did not explictly mention this and the supposed implicit references are dubious. Nonetheless, the fact that this alignment takes place on 2012 of all dates, is either an amazing coincidence or they knew something.

In ancient cultures astrological significance of the celestial bodies and their apparent location in the heavens had spiritual, psychological and physical implications. Thus to an astrologer a rare celestial event where all planets appear to be in alignment would certainly mean something amazing is going to happen. Thus if the Mayans did indeed knew of this event, it could well indeed mean that they expected an unprecedented event. Either a global catacylsm or global enlightenment.

2. Your representation of the arguments of the proponents of the theories you debunk(Hapgod, Sitchin, Wilcock etc) are mostly strawmen. You represent only their weakest arguments, but overlook their strongest arguments. When it would only be honest and fair of you to represent their strongest arguments. For example citing the strongest evidence FOR the Piri Res map which supposedly shows Antartica in another location. There is no fun in watching a critic tear down a strawman. It would be interesting to see a rebuttal by them to your arguments, and see how well you can cope with their counter-arguments.

3. You cite many experts which contradict the theories of other experts, such as experts on the Sumerian language other than Sitchin, as proof that they are wrong. This is invalid. You cannot disprove the argument of one expert with the argument of another expert. You do the same with sun-spot activity arguments and the solar system moving into the galactic plane. As somebody has shown above there are other experts, such as Machiu Kaku(sp?) which suggest actually there will be major sun spot activity in 2012 and explains why this poses immediate dangers to our telecommunications.

4. I think you really should have left out your personal conspiracy theory of how the 2012 is a deception set up by the ant-christ and your obvious resentment of new-age religion as this spoils an otherwise rational, academic and secular presentation. You cannot really debunk underdeveloped theories, to then conclude by presenting your own underdeveloped theory in the end which relies on even more dubious sources and impoverished reasoning and evidence.

I find it a curious omission that you did not look at Terence Mkkenna and his theory of the time-wave zero which provides one possible explanation as to why things should speed up in 2012. That is that we are reaching a singularity where novelty becomes infinite. This is how it could be possible that rare events like physical and magnetic shifts could happen in a literal "blink of an eye"

I would be interested in how you respond to my criticisms.



posted on Dec, 2 2009 @ 01:53 AM
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reply to post by Indigo_Child
 


well said haha.

I honestly think we are going to evolve drastically in terms of a global society in the next few years.
it shall be very very interesting, i am looking at 2011 to be the year of major impact, not necessarily 2012



posted on Dec, 2 2009 @ 02:24 AM
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Originally posted by madness
Forgive the blandness, at work cant get too involved but heres a link to the depiction with brief xplanation. Please do look into it yourself, study it get to the bottom of it.
I fail to believe that all this information has been manufactured or dreamt up, this is info gathered by people who dedicated their lives studying the maya. Maybe theyre all loonies? The Mayans seemingly believed in this evolution, and il be damned if they got the last phase wrong. They didnt.

www.redicecreations.com...


good day friend, keep smiling =)

aLaN

p.s. first time i linked an url.. hope its ok




It was dreamt up. Lot's of books are written about subjects by people who 'study' them for a long time - and lots of times, they are wrong.

I haven't watched the vids, but here's a quick couple of points to throw in-

The Mayans wrote nothing about the end of times. They just believed in cycles of history, of various sizes. They marked the passing of such cycles with joy. Nowhere in anything we know of them, did they predict the end of anything. 2012 was, according to their calenders, simply the end of the 13 Baktun - a long cycle of time. And they had stuff written about what might be going on all the way up to the 20th baktun. They wrote about life on earth as far as 400 million years beyond this upcoming pseudo-event, and never once, anywhere, at all, in any way, spoke of earth changes, cataclysm, doomsday, convergences, etc, in association with the passing of any of the cycles.

All of our modern ideas about the mayan calender are, indeed, fabrications. I won't use the word 'loonies', but suffice to say, they were wrong. There is absolutely no debate about this in the field of mayan studies, because nothing at all in the historical record mentions it even suggestively.

As for that pyramid picture - I have no idea what it is, but I assure you, it's got nothing to do with the mayans. It's just something dreamt up by some new-ager somewhere.


Look a little harder into those people who first started writing about this modern myth - and you'll find out that it was just a couple of folks who seemingly, had a poor understanding of the ancient mayan written language.




It's not dissimilar to how zacharia sitchin failed to make use of the dictionaries (essentially) left behind by the sumerians, which reveal his translations to be flat out false.


this should be GOOD news, not bad. no doomsday! no calamity!


and if anyone is disappointed that the world won't be magically cleansed of evil and transformed, well, looks like we're just gonna have to do it ourselves. no savior here, either.


peace.

[edit on 2-12-2009 by TrueTruth]



posted on Dec, 2 2009 @ 05:18 PM
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reply to post by Amenti
 


Finally watched the vids. Very well done.

Although I am not a Christian, I have often wondered about the same sort of thing, in terms of what the agenda may be of whatever entities are contacting us. My life has been profoundly altered by my own visitations and messages from 'beings of light'. Indeed, they seem to access within us a level of ontological intensity so as to seem more real than 'reality'. The experiences feed a longing hunger to 'know', to feel connected, to feel looked over...

But certain things about it make no sense to me. Like, why do only some people have the experiences, and not others? I wasn't doing anything special when they came to me.

To what end might we be being influenced? How do we know if it truly serves our own best interest, or theirs? How do we know they are not manipulating us based on our deepest needs and longings?



posted on Dec, 8 2009 @ 05:49 PM
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One thing I'm curious about, since the original poster seems to have a Christian-lean, how do you account for the prediction of St. Malachy coming to fruition roughly now?



Do you feel it has any connection to the whole 2012 hub-bub? Gotta admit it's a bit bizarre that we have so many predictions all lining up right now.




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