Third Secret of Fatima: behind the curtains., page 4

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reply posted on 22-4-2010 @ 02:49 PM by Phantomfire707

reply to post by Rosha

if an alleged prophet were to predict something like "your cousin Joel will win a $400,000 dollar jackpot minimum and die in the same week," you could say that it's common for people to die, and not uncommon for people to win such jackpots. But if that prediction came true it would serve as a testament to the credibility of the prophet.

Not to mention that the prophecy includes a final note that "the same week Joel dies and wins the Jackpot his neighborhood will be illuminated by an unexplainable supernatural light"

I believe the prophecy of the illuminated night is of the future, for the same kind of reasons that I and many other Bible prophecy enthusiasts believe the Roman Empire resurfaces with the Antichrist at it's head in the end-times. And for reasons implied by the Opening Posts in this thread.

also, If you were to defend the fulfillment of the prophecies regarding Jesus, or defend other Biblical prophecies, an atheist or Jewish person would be making similar comments to you, that you make or would make against the Fatima prophecies.

[edit on 22-4-2010 by Phantomfire707]

reply posted on 22-4-2010 @ 06:28 PM by Rosha

Originally posted by Phantomfire707
reply to post by Rosha

---
if an alleged prophet were to predict something like "your cousin Joel will win a $400,000 dollar jackpot minimum and die in the same week," you could say that it's common for people to die, and not uncommon for people to win such jackpots. But if that prediction came true it would serve as a testament to the credibility of the prophet.
-----

If that prophet arose in decietful circumstances, spoke in an obvious duplicitous manner, misrepresented their identity and then claimed to have a Godly source, I would rightly question and rightly object and remain in full suspicion of their credibility and intent, regardless of any outcome.

Reason and faith both demand all things be prooven.
We are or have been specifically instructed to 'challenge the spirits' to see if they are ' Of God'...not blindly accept them. You would ask me top suspend that expectation and right, suspend that necessary process of prooving to apease a political argument? No. I will not. I refuse to accept to myself a spirit or the words of any spirit, that I have not been given by or through Gods will. It is not enough to understand, we have to comprehend and action what we believe, to 'do those things' we were told to do to be assured and sure, or else we only have ourselves to blame for scattered or erroded focus', shattered hopes and for ending up in chains.

--
Not to mention that the prophecy includes a final note that "the same week Joel dies and wins the Jackpot his neighborhood will be illuminated by an unexplainable supernatural light"
--

Your inability to view or experience the light, is not qualification of its absence.

---
I believe the prophecy of the illuminated night is of the future, for the same kind of reasons that I and many other Bible prophecy enthusiasts believe the Roman Empire resurfaces with the Antichrist at it's head in the end-times. And for reasons implied by the Opening Posts in this thread.
----

I am not and wont question your beliefs. I prefer to challenge my own. I do not know enough about the prophecys to determine beyond my own viewpoint. I do know that everything hidden will be revealed, so I am calm about them and feel no urgency to disect them or buy into them.

I know that all occulted information will only have its mystery as long as God wills it for His purpose and rather than buy into that occulted mystery and ignore the present moement, I would rather trust and put faith in God and believe in *him* as I was instructed to do, and not focus my energy and belief on someone elses experience and what to me is duboius prophecy...dubious to me in that to my belief, and owing to the undisclosed nature of the source of those prophecys and the willfull secretion and manipuilation of them...cannot be decently verified as righteous or Of God.

I choose to keep an open mind, just not so open my brains fall out.

--
also, If you were to defend the fulfillment of the prophecies regarding Jesus, or defend other Biblical prophecies, an atheist or Jewish person would be making similar comments to you, that you make or would make against the Fatima prophecies.
--

In regards to the fulfillment of prophecys about Jesus, nothing is attacking and nothing needs defending.
I am also not taking a political side on this issue, a personal perspetive yes but it is not political in that I am not speaking against the prophecy per say as much as I am doing as instructed and challenging them in good conscience, in order to know, to be sure, and I am using the tools laid down and given to us in scripture to do that as much as the gifts already given me by God, a mind to reason and my own spiritual conscience.

It remains however, that I will depend upon and rely on Gods understanding of them, not yours theirs or even my own.

R

reply posted on 25-4-2010 @ 11:56 PM by Phantomfire707

In several days I shall submit a post defending the case that the Fatima messages originated from God's plan rather than from a demonic source.

Also will then reread and reply to Rosha's last post if necessary.

.

[edit on 26-4-2010 by Phantomfire707]

reply posted on 28-4-2010 @ 08:25 AM by Gabriel_

Hi

I find it sad that so many people focus on the many words of popes and suposed "enlightened" people and use their so called prophecies as cornerstones of their beliefs.

As Christians we have so much truth in the Holy Bible that are still not followed yet we concern ourselves with extra literature with promises from general people yet the words of Jesus are seemingly forgotten.

reply posted on 9-5-2010 @ 07:41 PM by Rosha

Originally posted by Phantomfire707
In several days I shall submit a post defending the case that the Fatima messages originated from God's plan rather than from a demonic source.

Also will then reread and reply to Rosha's last post if necessary.

[edit on 26-4-2010 by Phantomfire707]

Several days have passed Gabriel...have you decided not to post?

Rosha

reply posted on 9-5-2010 @ 11:25 PM by Phantomfire707

I feel that I've been prematurely entangled and nudged into giving an all out defense of the Fatima phenomenon. When In fact I've maintained a position that I would support Fatima somewhat vigorously but that I would also fully agree with others that Fatima could be of demonic or alien origin...and that I would stand mostly aside when they give their say.

1) On Nov 19th, 2009, on the 16th post of page 1 of this thread, in response to "SevenThunders" who posted: "I believe that it is likely the Fatima prophecies are Satanic in origin as are the prophecies of Medjugorje..."
I responded to him: "I fully support and welcome your above comments. It is a good position to hold. They very well may be demonic. I can only say though, that if the Fatima prophecies begin to come true in the future as I described....that at such a time it would be proper for doubters of Fatima to seriously reconsider their beliefs about God's non-plans for Jesus's mother."

Secondly, Despite a few doubts, my belief and support of the Fatima Apparitions are driven by:
A) awareness of various bits of evidence since 2008 that the Third Secret seems to be moving towards its fulfillment in leading up to 2014 and possibly much earlier.
B) The Fatima Apparitions have directed me towards combining proper service to God with periods of acts of penance/self-sacrifice and equivalently following the biblical teachings that include the concept of opposing the "Flesh" for the "Spirit". I doubt the devil would be interested in leading souls into the less practiced side of the "Flesh mode VS. Spirit mode." And from my own personal experience so far, those key periods of self-sacrifice/penance were accompanied by the greater manifestations of God's power in my life. Either that, or I was a victim of a few very significant coincidences in the form of quasi-supernatural experiences during the periods that mattered most.

3) Last week I debated how and whether I should fulfill my promise and write a post in full defense of the Fatima Apparitions. There was one particular important sticky point about Fatima that I clearly cannot defend with Bible Quotes, or against Bible quotes. In that case, there is nothing I can say today that would convince those that would insist that the Bible is the last word on the matter on the Fatima Apparitions. In which case, I would need for God to produce future and clear evidence of His support of the Fatima phenomenon before I can give 100% full support in defending the total message of Our Lady of Fatima to others. That time has not yet arrived, and may never arrive.

4) If in 2014(the 13th year, of the 3rd millennium)--based on the overriding significance of the number 13 in connection to Fatima---if something of great importance intimately connected to Fatima does not happen in that year and explain the choice of 13th I'd probably then start believing the Fatima Apparitions are demonic due to certain obscure information that I've come across during my extensive attention to these matters. I will not discuss such information before the appropriate time. Meanwhile at this time I expect the Third Secret to be fulfilled and therefore expect the choice of 13th in Fatima to be redeemed in the 13th year, so its not much a worry for me. But if that year passes without explosiveness of direct relevance to Fatima, the unmentioned information in my head is enough to switch belief and then agree that Fatima events turned out to be of Satanic origin. Not to mention that the "end of the 20th century" conflict(which is about to be reopened as a political hot potato on the world stage latter this year) is of great relevance to my support of the fulfillment of the Third Secret Fatima. Thus my expectations are focused on multiple relevant future events for an opening period of 2010 to 2014.

continued...

reply posted on 9-5-2010 @ 11:33 PM by Phantomfire707

....continued from previous post:

5) when/if I go all out in defense of the Fatima Apparitions I would become a total and ardent promoter of the biblical message of abandoning the "Flesh for the sake of the Spirit" which equates with the major Fatima message of penance/fasting/self sacrifice. And although I heed this message in my own life(in the periods I have the resolve...not often enough) I recognize the potential psychological harm of such religious teachings if in the end they aren't proven to be divine. . . . .Which translates to: I believe enough to inflict my own life, I've experienced mini-miracles in connection to the message of Fatima, I believe enough to direct people's attention to an upcoming verification of the Fatima Prophecies and events, but even so, I am resistant to give a full defense of the Fatima Apparitions until God demonstrates more clearly His Approval and Involvement with the Fatima Apparitions. Until then, as I did on November 19th and other days, I admit the possibility of Demonic forces. But I'm expecting in the end the people that believe its all demonic in origin, will be proven wrong. And yet I will be willing to give a few bits of evidence that support the "Fatima is demonic theory", If I am proven wrong when the hour of clarity comes.

[edit on 9-5-2010 by Phantomfire707]

reply posted on 10-5-2010 @ 05:39 AM by RadicalGnostic

First off, I am neutral regarding the authenticity of any marian apparitions because I have found in my reasearch some correlations between ancient goddess sites and marian apparitions (e.g., Guadalupe). I would not necessarily condemn them as satanic (which seems to be under every bush and rock...) because if these accounts help someone find their soul or spirit in a better place they are good.

I do have a couple questions: Why are the words of Mary of such great importance as opposed to the words of Jesus? And, why does it matter what happens to the pope, as another is elected?

Here is my last question: What makes the visions of Fatima so important?

I ask in good faith, and I hope to be answered in good faith.

reply posted on 10-5-2010 @ 07:32 AM by St Udio

lead in reading from a credible source:

www.bibliotecapleyades.net...

The Solar Miracle at Fatima

The Secret of Our Lady of the Rosary is a three-part prophecy that she ordered to be kept secret for 25 years or until the death of Lucia, whichever came first. Francisco and Jacinta died in the influenza pandemic that ravaged Europe in 1918 and 1919.
Lucia became a Dorothe Sister, and in 1948 she became a Barefoot Carmelite in a closed convent at Coimbra.
Lucia learned to write, and recorded the text of the secret prophecy.
This was kept in the Bishopric of Leiria until 1943, when Pope Pius XII revealed the first two parts through the agency of Cardinal Schuster. The final, secret part of the prophecy was opened by Pope John XXIII and several cardinals in 1960, according to the Madonna's directions, but it was not revealed to the public. The first section is a vision of Hell.
The second part predicts World War II. The following segment was published with Papal approval:

(1)"If you do what I tell you, many souls will be saved and we shall have peace. The war is coming to an end; but it does not cease to offend the Lord, and another, more terrible one will break out. When you see a night lit up by an unknown light, you will know that it the great sign that God gives you of the next punishment of the sins of the world with war, famine, and persecution against the Church and against the Holy Father.

(2)"In order to prevent this, I have some to intercede for the consecration of Russia to my Immaculate Heart and the communion of the first Sabbaths.

(3)"If you carry out my demands, Russia will be converted and there will be peace. Otherwise the errors will be spread around the world, provoking war and persecution against the Church; many good people will become martyrs, the Holy Father will suffer much; many nations will be suppressed...

(4)"But in the end my Immaculate Heart will triumph, the Holy Father will consecrate Russia for me, which will be converted and the world will be granted a period of peace..."

The "great sign", "a night lit up by an unknown light," occurred on January 25, 1938.
It has been explained as an unusual aurora borealis. World War II began soon afterward.

if one deconstructs the 4 sections of the sealed message from the Madonna,

(1) tells us us that a WWII will begin after the night sky is lit up
from a rare but normal NorthernLights display ->> 'great sign'

(2) implies that WWII only happens because Russia < Soviet Union was not converted...
which completely leaves out the NAZIs seizing the nation of Germany, then Europe, N. Africa, ME, etc

(3) again the focus for the WWII is Russia, not Nazi Germany nor Hitler or the Nazi occult
and because Russia never was converted or was consecrated, there followed the Iron Curtain & the Cold War until ~1990?

(4) the last Pope finally did 'consecrate Russia' before his death...

On March 25, 1984, the feast of the Annunciation, Pope John Paul II consecrated Russia in a public ceremony. Lúcia Santos, one of the seers of the Fátima apparitions, said that the consecration requested by the Virgin Mary was fulfilled and accepted in heaven...
(source): en.wikipedia.org...

MY personal conclusion:

these messages may have come from an 'Alternate Reality' which some may call supernatural, divine, spiritual...
but at the least... the WWII part of the secrets seems very intermingled with human imagination and contortions...(i guess this is when Lucia learned to write down the message received from the apparition woman)
i would expect little else of the 'third secret', which itself is being dribbled or leaked out to the laity & masses in chinese-water-torture fashion.

[edit on 10-5-2010 by St Udio]

reply posted on 11-5-2010 @ 07:20 PM by Phantomfire707

Originally posted by RadicalGnostic
why does it matter what happens to the pope, as another is elected?

It doesn't matter that much. What matters are the sum of events that would transpire at that time in fulfillment of the warnings spoken at Fatima. And what matters is that the fulfillment or failure of those prophecies is a testament of the true origin of the rest of the Fatima events and messages.

Originally posted by RadicalGnostic
What makes the visions of Fatima so important?

Whether people realize it or not the Fatima visions are about the initial period of the end-times.

Originally posted by RadicalGnostic
Why are the words of Mary of such great importance as opposed to the words of Jesus?

A sensible believer in the Fatima apparitions would view the words of Mary as a supplement to the words of Jesus. It makes little sense for a person to fully recognize God's Hand in sending Mary and the Miracle of the Sun of 1917 and not be led back to the Bible for the original teachings of God and Jesus. One important part of Mary's teachings fully affirms and elaborates on the teachings of the New Testament(Flesh Vs. Spirit and wholehearted attention). But another important part is hard for many religious people to accept. That part pertains to Mary getting an exalted role in God's spiritual plan for the world and the requests that people pray the Rosary. The Bible has never given a hint of any future plan of God for reciting prayers associated with anything other than God. Thus Protestants would lump praying the Rosary to the same level as praying something in dedication to Zeus. Opponents of these apparitions view such attention to Mary as blasphemy against God, while believers view the glory of Mary as glorifying Jesus and God.

The Bible fully supports the idea of intercession by prophets and individuals when they pray for others. Mary is said to pray for us.

Aside from the part of devotion to Mary through the Rosary, the messages of the Apparition of Fatima also speak about serving God. The Fatima Apparitions(Mary and the Angel of Peace) told the 3 children such things as:

"Pray, Pray a great deal. The Hearts of Jesus and Mary have merciful designs on you. Offer prayers and sacrifices continually to the Most High. Make everything you do a sacrifice, and offer it as an act of reparation for the sins by which God is offended, and as a petition for the conversion of sinners."

"When you say the Rosary, say after each mystery: O my Jesus, forgive us our sins, save us from the fires of Hell and lead all souls to Heaven, especially those most in need of your mercy.”(all Catholics are taught to say this when learning/told to pray the Rosary. Few realize that this part originated from the Fatima Apparitions)

the Apparition then asked of Lucia, Jacinta and Francisco: "Would you like to offer yourselves to God to accept all the sufferings which He may send to you in reparation for the countless sins by which He is offended and in supplication for the conversion of sinners?”
they said yes, the vision responded, "Then you will have much to suffer, but the grace of God will be your comfort.”

"Sacrifice yourselves for sinners and say often, especially when you make some sacrifice, ‘O my Jesus, this is for love of You, for the conversion of sinners, and in reparation for the offenses committed against the Immaculate Heart of Mary.’”

when interviewed several hours after the Miracle of the Sun occurred, to the question "What did she say?"
Lucia remarked: "She said we were to amend our lives and not offend our Lord any more because He was too much offended already, and that we were to say the Rosary and ask pardon for our sins."

my position is:
***ULTIMATELY time will tell if these messages are demonic, alien, hoax, or from God.***

[edit on 11-5-2010 by Phantomfire707]

reply posted on 13-5-2010 @ 04:19 PM by Rosha

Jesus said specifically ' call no man on earth your father'...if this prophecy is using the words 'Holy father' and refering to a pontif not God Himself...it stems from deception - imo.

"Many lying sings and wonders"...thats what keeps ringing in my head every time I read this.

reply posted on 13-5-2010 @ 08:21 PM by Phantomfire707

Originally posted by Rosha
Jesus said specifically ' call no man on earth your father'...if this prophecy is using the words 'Holy father' and refering to a pontif not God Himself...it stems from deception - imo.

"Many lying sings and wonders"...thats what keeps ringing in my head every time I read this.

Rosha, you have made some good points against Fatima before. But "Holy Father" is an English title. The words attributed to the apparition of Mary were originally spoken in Portuguese using a Portuguese title for the Pope of "Santo Padre," which breaks down into a more precise title of "Saint Priest." As far as I can tell the Portuguese people call their father's "Pai" and "Papai," rather than "Padre." But you would have to ask someone who speaks the language to be sure.

[edit on 13-5-2010 by Phantomfire707]

reply posted on 16-5-2010 @ 06:36 PM by Rosha

Then I am impelled to ask simple questions like;

If it is true that all things come from God., all things return to God...and we are but dust and will return to dust...then why would God be offended at his own self, or on the other hand, offended by dust?

Surely God is above such petty things and wiser than a grudge holding self harmer?

Anything claiming to know the mind of God is on dubious ground for me.

For eons humans have been manipulated by the satanic, by the mystic and by the fearful or power hungry and greedy...aparitions 'sanctified' by religions usually evolve into the light as mere control tools of lonely but no wiser minds and spiritual vampires hell bent on continuing religions and mans traditions in definance of Gods will - traditions that have already been rebuked by Jesus Christ as they perpetuated lies time and time again to ensure procurement of the deaf and blind, prostitution of faith, and perpetuate fear and their own continuance.

The simplicy of Christs message was that we love one another and Love God. Love over fear. Love over hate, love over pride and ego.

The simplicity in Christ is what is being rejected when people buy into prophecy of this kind....imo.

You and anyone are free to complicate Jesus Christs message as you desire or wish....the consequences however, remain your own.

reply posted on 1-6-2010 @ 03:33 PM by NamelessMonster

Originally posted by RadicalGnostic
First off, I am neutral regarding the authenticity of any marian apparitions because I have found in my reasearch some correlations between ancient goddess sites and marian apparitions (e.g., Guadalupe). I would not necessarily condemn them as satanic (which seems to be under every bush and rock...) because if these accounts help someone find their soul or spirit in a better place they are good.

I do have a couple questions: Why are the words of Mary of such great importance as opposed to the words of Jesus? And, why does it matter what happens to the pope, as another is elected?

Here is my last question: What makes the visions of Fatima so important?

I ask in good faith, and I hope to be answered in good faith.

That was my biggest problem with the whole situation. After a ton of research in to it, I found some strange things. It honestly does not seem like a Christian event, it is more complicated than that. See my thread on the "Goddess" connection that I made, a lot of links an comments are made here that should be read by anyone interested in this event.

www.abovetopsecret.com...

And an alternate version of the thread for the alien enthusiasts to talk about the "alien" implications

www.abovetopsecret.com...

In the end this just leaves me rather confused. Whatever it was, they sure did a bad job of making their intentions clear.

reply posted on 19-8-2011 @ 08:38 PM by relocator

reply to post by NamelessMonster

I came across this The Third Secret. This website is full of very interesting research.

I found a post by a reader in regards to June 30th appearance of the Blessed Mother very interesting...

If you go to the exchanges you will see a post by a reader which stated:

Regarding the Blessed Mother's scheduled appearance yesterday morning June 30th, I want to confirm to you that the June 30th date and time were correct and that She indeed "appeared," but most people did not understand the nature her appearance. The 7th visit of the Blessed Mother has happened in the form of the awakening and gathering of her children(believers), who will help build the New Church. The New Church(Her children/believers) IS the result fo the 7th visit of the Blessed Mother(the awakening); since the angelic awakening of 30th of June, it is now a priority to think of her first and foremost and to do our best to live according to Her Instructions. Regarding the dates, it is God's Will that June 30th was the chosen date, regardless if the planets were aligned or not, so there is no need to fiddle around with dates and planet alignments anymore. As for astrology, this is a seductive tool Lucifer wants to use, for he wants to replace the Mystery of Faith with science/arithmatic in order to understand God, but God Jesus Christ goes FAR BEYOND science and understanding him means that you must be pure and childlike; you must have a pure and sincere, open hearted, one on one connection with God Jesus Christ in order to understand Him, which is LOVE. Planetary cycles and changes do exist as part of the working body of the solar system, but they do not change hearts and bring souls to God Jesus Christ. ONLY God Jesus Christ and the Blessed Mother Mary wins and saves souls.

You could do a new thread on the research found on that site. I'm too busy and too tired...I will be getting my 150 roasry beads and a brown Scapular. I believe it's better to be safe then sorry....What could it hurt???
At the rate the world is going now...

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