SETI Critique, and why UFOs should not be dismissed out of hand

Hi.

I saw this interesting critique of the SETI (Search for ExtraTerrestrial Intelligence) programs:

www.spacedaily.com...

It's interesting, as it suggests that using the radio approach might not be the best way to look for aliens. So I thought, in addition to the other types of searches mentioned there, whether or not it'd also be useful to search for alien life by looking at reports of UFOs.

The reasoning is simple: If an alien spacecraft visited Earth, it would likely be filed off as a UFO, considering that's what it'd appear like (the odds of any alien device looking just like one of our craft are next to zero.). Note this does not prove UFOs ARE alien spacecraft, or that there has been a UFO sighting that is of an alien spacecraft. It's just to point out a possibility, and where you'd have to look to explore it.

So my idea would be to try digging at the UFO reports and looking for anything that would be interesting, as well as possibly setting up some sort of UFO investigation program with good scientists who know scientific method and also how to minimize their chances of being fooled, and who can, if they do get fooled, admit and correct their error. Some scientists may scoff due to all the "theories" that have been put forward by "amateur" researchers -- especially the really wild claims ranging from "contactees" to stuff supposedly obtained via "psychic" and other pseudoscientific means (why attempt to gather data through phenomena whose mere existence is questionable?), plus all the "conspiracy" claims and so on. But if that's the problem, then why not just throw all that out? You don't need everyone's "theories" on UFOs to do UFOlogy, and if one wants real scientific UFOlogy, then perhaps that should be done.

No doubt that most UFOs will likely turn out to be something ordinary. But that should not deter the search, after all the possibility of false signals and ordinary signals coming over the Radio-SETI system didn't stop that. Considering that little attention has been given to the subject, one can't necessarily say the lack of good positive results so far is necessarily indicative of anything, esp. considering the seeming bias of scientists against the whole thing.

Some say it can't work because it's physically laughable that aliens could travel here, because you can't go faster than light, "warp drive" can't work for reason X, or whatever. But who's to say there's not some still-unknown method to do it? Who's to say our physics is it, and we only have minor tweaks left to make to it? Just remember what happened back in the 19th Century when we thought we had it all down and pat with Newton's mechanics and Maxwell's EM, and then along came Einstein, Planck, etc. with Relativity and Quantum Mechanics and blew all that away. Who knows what's next?

And finally, there are other ways UFOs could get here even without faster than light: consider unmanned "Von Neumann probes", for example. A self-reproducing probe that, due to its mechanical nature, could last for centuries or millennia, and due to its replicating nature, could visit many many planets. Note the mention of "computer science" and "AI" fields in the SETI critique page, and how such things might be relevant to searches. Perhaps they could be here, as well. And an AI probe could look like an "intelligently controlled" UFO, too -- after all it's (a)rtificial (i)ntelligence. The possibility of such probes has been mentioned before, and their apparent lack of being seen considered "puzzling" and is part of the famous "Fermi Paradox" problem. But what if they have, and we just wrote them off as a UFO?

And even if no alien stuff comes out of the UFO-SETI program, scientific ufology may still potentially uncover unknown natural phenomena or other things of interest.
What do you think?


[edit on 18-11-2009 by mike3]

[edit on 18-11-2009 by mike3]

Oh yeah, and in addition to all that, I also found this, which presents even more evidence against the efficacy of a Radio-SETI program:

www.sentientdevelopments.com...

Interesting but I believe what you have found it disinformation. I believe SETI works, and in fact has worked for a long time. All these years and all the funding poured into SETI tell me they are finding things.. not only still looking.

If this were true that they haven't found anything in all these years SETI would be a giant waste of money and resources. I believe SETI has a dual purpose. They are like the largest radar set up on earth in a way. I believe they help track all the satellites for the Gov - in order for them to screen out all the background stuff they get they have to know where the satellites are and what types of signals they send back to earth. So it stands to reason to me with their technology, they are getting paid to monitor other stuff on the side besides just looking for alien signals.

I believe this is the same with the Hubble telescope.

I don't remember the source, perhaps someone else knows, but it has been said that SETI has found radio signals from aliens a clear repeating message that they were never able to decode and this after they ruled out all terrestrial possibilities.

reply to post by JohnPhoenix


So then what I'm left with here is anecdote at best. It looks like your main argument is that it must have found aliens because they spend a lot of money on it. But actually it's not that much, compared to even NASA, which takes way more. Also, most SETI funding is from privates now, not the government, as NASA canceled its program in 1992 (of course you might claim that's "disinformation" too, but if you do, can you back it up with evidence?). And if it serves a monitoring purpose, couldn't that be an alternative explanation for the continued spending?

Originally posted by mike3
reply to post by JohnPhoenix

 

So then what I'm left with here is anecdote at best. It looks like your main argument is that it must have found aliens because they spend a lot of money on it. But actually it's not that much, compared to even NASA, which takes way more. Also, most SETI funding is from privates now, not the government, as NASA canceled its program in 1992 (of course you might claim that's "disinformation" too, but if you do, can you back it up with evidence?). And if it serves a monitoring purpose, couldn't that be an alternative explanation for the continued spending?

Yeah that's what I'm saying.. I think they must be doing other stuff to justify the spending. I do remember when the government dropped the project. You know, government and private corporations go hand in hand. I would not be surprised if that whole thing was a setup to shift attention away from the government having to be the ones that answers for SETI. This way the Government can claim they are out of it, and the public pressure is off. It would be the perfect way for the government to conceal any black ops they may be doing with SETI.

I may be way off here, but those are my theories on the subject.. they make since to me.

"Private" corporations have been finding SETI for 16 years with nothing to show for it just makes no since to me. Corporations are all about profit. If they don't see a return on the investment, they drop the project. This is why I feel SETI is giving them something to believe in.

Another thing.. SETI may also be monitoring signals from the aliens not in deep space but around our planet.. the aliens buzzing around up there. If they have to screen out satellites, then i am sure they could pick something up from these ET's.. provided you believe in people like Phillip Corso, who says there is a war going on above our heads. We do know that "something" is flying around up there. Here is a little footage of all the stuff up there.

Fiber Optics in 1968
www.youtube.com...

Transscripts of Gemini Mission
www.youtube.com...

NASA's Alien Anomalies caught on film - A compilation of stunning UFO footage from NASA's archives
www.youtube.com...

Aliens in the NASA Archives - More Stunning NASA UFO Anomalies Captured On Film
www.youtube.com...





[edit on 18-11-2009 by JohnPhoenix]

[edit on 18-11-2009 by JohnPhoenix]

[edit on 18-11-2009 by JohnPhoenix]

The problem with SETI is they don't know what they're searching for. I highly doubt advanced aliens would produce the same type of frequencies/waves that we produce and are able to detect. It's a big waste of time and money IMO since I believe the evidence points to ETs visiting Earth on a regular basis.

Originally posted by ufo reality
The problem with SETI is they don't know what they're searching for. I highly doubt advanced aliens would produce the same type of frequencies/waves that we produce and are able to detect. It's a big waste of time and money IMO since I believe the evidence points to ETs visiting Earth on a regular basis.

What you say could be true, Unless the aliens actually want to contact us. Then they would mimic our signals. Or perhaps the folks at SETI are smart enough to decipher their signals.

reply to post by JohnPhoenix


If they're doing something else other than looking for aliens with it and that's justifying the spending and giving them returns, and if government and private companies go hand-in-hand and we assume th claim about them doing stuff for the government is true, then the private companies could be making money doing that stuff for the government, which would justify the expenditure, and so there's no reason for it to have to be aliens. So once again, we're at the question of what evidence is there for the reason for the continued spending to be specifically that they have found aliens with SETI? (BTW, some of the private organizations are non-profit as well.)

Oh yeah, and as for Corso, I don't believe his claims at all: to be true, it would essentially require the vast majority of the world's scientists, professors, etc. to be lying or deceived and have kept up these lies and the deception to have remained without any more whistleblowers at all. That's so unlikely that it'd need way more than anecdote to prove it. Do you have more evidence beyond Corso's anecdotes?

[edit on 18-11-2009 by mike3]

SETI, talk about closing the gate after the horse has bolted.

ET' have been here for thousands of years.

In modern times they have been here since Roswall.

If any of you have done any research on the suject, even bringing up SETI at all is draconian to say the least.