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Deadly flu spreads across Ukraine

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posted on Nov, 18 2009 @ 04:02 PM
reply to post by ecoparity

Thanks for putting me on to this.

This is very bad news, indeed: it seems it has met up with H5N1 and shared genes.

These results track with what I've been suspecting since Argentina was a hot spot back this summer, ever since I saw the Sao Paolo gene sequences, I just didn't know what I was looking at.

[edit on 18-11-2009 by apacheman]

posted on Nov, 18 2009 @ 04:08 PM
When you say that MSM isn't reporting this, I think you mean that *some* MSM aren't reporting it. Obviously we all are seeing this, so someone is reporting it. I submit that if we're seeing it, it's MSM.

Be that as it may, I can see why some sources aren't bothering. First, according the the graph, the number of fatalities remains less than 300 - it's closer to 200, maybe 250 or so (hard to tell from the graph). But let's call it 300, just to round it off. OK, that's not a whole lot of people, for a million infections. Normally you'd lose just about that number to seasonal flu. While the virus in Ukraine does seem to destroy the lungs of some of the victims, the overall number of deaths isn't alarming. It's about normal.

Also, a million infections during a flu season is not at all unusual or alarming. You can expect roughly 15 million flu cases in Ukraine for the season. Out of those, somewhere around 3,000 to 5,000 will die, as happens each year. If this flu becomes deadly, then of course those numbers will rise sharply, but at the moment, this is mostly a non-event

It is also possible that the Ukraine government is deliberately inflating the numbers of cases, simply to exert greater control over the population. This "justifies" closing of public events, limiting peoples' ability to travel, and so on. They may have hidden agenda.

So yeah, I suppose some news sources aren't terribly impressed by what's going on, and don't care to report it.

posted on Nov, 18 2009 @ 04:14 PM
More info on Ukraine Analysis

Recombinomics Commentary 21:53, November 18, 2009, Dr Henry Niman

RBD Change D225G in Ukraine Lungs Raises Concerns

Mill Hill, a WHO regional center in London has placed sequences from 10 isolates from Ukraine on deposit at GISAID (see list below). They are to be commended for the prompt deposit of these important sequences. The availability of the sequences should put an end to wild speculation on the origins of the Ukraine outbreak.

All H and N sequences are typical for H1N1, as indicated in early WHO announcements. There are no large changes. Additional gene segments have been deposited from a subset of these isolates (but not analyzed below). There are silent changes that are in all or most Ukraine sequences, but the only HA polymorphism was the receptor binding domain change, D225G. This polymorphism was in the three lung, as well as the one throat sample. It was not in the nasopharyngeal washes or the isolate grown in MDCK cells suggesting the D225G may have a tissue tropism component and may allow for high levels of virus in the lung.

D225G was also found in necropsy lung tissue from fatal cases in Sao Paulo, further supporting tissue tropism associated with this polymorphism. The polymorphism has recently appeared on a series of different genetic backgrounds, supporting acquisition by recombination. The genetic backgrounds were geographically diverse. It was appended onto a genetic background specific for China as well as another distinct background found in Singapore and Japan. It has also recently appeared on backgrounds from Spain and Brazil. In addition, it was in isolates from last spring collected in the United States and Mexico.

The appearance of D225G on multiple recent genetic backgrounds raises concerns that the polymorphism is offering a selective advantage in association with multiple genetic backgrounds, and the selective detection of the polymorphism in lung and throat samples may indicate it is more widespread because of its absence from nasopharyngeal washes. Lung and throat sampling may be required for detection and determination of the true geograpohical reach of this change..

More information on outcomes for these patients, as well as results for lung and nasopharyngeal samples from the same patient, would be useful.

The prompt release of these sequences should help guide further analysis of the evolving swine H1N1.

A/Khmelnitsky/1/2009 EPI_ISL_62017
A/Ternopil/19/2009 EPI_ISL_62016
A/Ternopil/11/2009* EPI_ISL_62015
A/Ternopil/6/2009 EPI_ISL_62014
A/Ternopil/5/2009 EPI_ISL_62013
A/Lviv/N6/2009* EPI_ISL_62012
A/Ternopil/N11/2009 EPI_ISL_62011
A/Ternopil/N10/2009 EPI_ISL_62010
A/Lviv/N2/2009* EPI_ISL_62009
A/Kyiv/N1/2009 EPI_ISL_62008

* D225G

posted on Nov, 18 2009 @ 04:19 PM
reply to post by chiron613

Even in 1918 80 percent of those infected had a "mild" case. There's a lot of people in the World and a lot more now than then. Even that small 20 percent of the infected was a large number of people.

It's in our nature to concentrate on that 80 percent thing. Until we or someone we know becomes one of the 20....

posted on Nov, 18 2009 @ 04:41 PM
reply to post by tomfrusso

Did you look this up?!?! they need 10 billion dead....

you should what the result would be....we are barely 7 billion on Earth

I know all about depopulation but what's the point if you have no one to control.....

Just a thought

posted on Nov, 18 2009 @ 04:51 PM
I'm not a math whiz but doesn't that leave them short a few million people?

If we all died that would be kind of ironic...

posted on Nov, 18 2009 @ 05:04 PM
Unemployment is 17% how big a number do you actually need to fix the economy and squash trouble spots that will give you headaches or rebellions?

10% will do just fine if you ask me, brings us back to the status quo of 7%

Not to mention all the job creation disposing of the body's...

If you really examine it... given the housing crisis, if you drop 10% off America now and 10% of houses go on the market and prices drop and slide even further...

Suddenly everyone's employed and The ability to buy a house for the average shmo looks allot like the 50's again... Like another world war...without the world war...

Imagine the debt that will be let go bailing out aid into devastated 3rd world regions.... great excuse for Western troops to go more places for "AID" as opposed to war...

It really does seem really convenient to have a 10% drop off right now...

Not saying it's the case...

But when you look at the economy and the numbers, well it all does seem very coincidental given what the inevitable economic result will be.

posted on Nov, 18 2009 @ 06:51 PM

Originally posted by LAUTERMILCH
Another good report on the Ukraine situation.

Regardless, there has been almost zero (NOTHING. NADA. SILENCE.) mention of the Ukraine epidemic in the mainstream media, a fact which I find both astonishing and profoundly disturbing. There is apparently collusion at the highest levels of government and media to suppress this information. There are now 1.3 million infected in Ukraine, and over 75,000 hospitalized -- IN FOURTEEN DAYS. This is very serious! Based on previous clinical data we can expect over 8,000 to be dead or soon to be dead. Forward projection of the epidemic is difficult because the clinical attack rate is unknown -- but myself and my associates remain concerned it may be quite high. Deaths globally may be in the millions. Let's hope this is not the case.

Well they've treked forward backtracked and then went ahead and no wait ummm yes umm no not that bad, umm wait a minute... Uh yeah, wait

Yes we have a Global pandemic of H1N1. World Health Organization

The U.S. is still doing the umm, wait, err yeah uh it's not that bad, um yeah, well...

Uh huh, and i didn't see 30 people walking around a hospital today wearing face masks...

Don't you just love this, political correct egg shells, the #s not ever going to hit the fan bs.

posted on Nov, 18 2009 @ 09:09 PM
You have to put the WHO in perspective. They are one interesting animal, that's for sure.

They're part of the UN and don't even get me started on those bastards. They have to serve Satan while operating in the open so it makes for a very complex set of rules they have. As long as we understand those rules we can take the real info out of them and trash the rest.

They have to share genuine genetic samples and sequences - that they cannot manipulate. Anytime an outbreak occurs medical teams from all over the World show up and join in the sample harvesting. Sometimes this makes the press but most of the time it doesn't (they don't want you knowing where to go for more info).

Poland, Russia, China - all had teams in Ukraine during the outbreak.

What the WHO can do is manipulate the press release about the samples. They can downplay what the found (which they are doing in this case) or they can go in and tell a Nation to only count WHO lab confirmed samples in the deaths category - this is what happened when Mexico went from 400 plus to 12 deaths the night the WHO team arrived.

Fortunately there are researchers all over the place performing analysis of the Ukraine sequences so we have "second opinions".

The WHO mantra on swine flu is to not panic people and not start a run on the vaccines, which are in very short supply. In the US you can't get them unless your 25 and under or have a health condition. They encourage vaccination just enough so you'll go when they become available but they are seriously worried about riots over the shortages.

So, WHO good info: what disease is there, genetic sequences

WHO Bad info: threat level, analysis of sequences to some extent

Just know your enemy and WHO you're dealing with, basically.

posted on Nov, 18 2009 @ 11:03 PM

Originally posted by windwaker
reply to post by ecoparity

I'm missing work today because of a horrible phlem-filled cough. This morning I saw a speck of blood. I am going to the doctor soon, but if he tries to give me the H1N1 Vaccine, I will refuse it.

I don't know what to do.

Immediately begin taking hydrogen peroxide mixed with distilled wate.


# 1- 35% Food grade Hydrogen Peroxcide (H2O2) Buy on line.
Cut it in half with distilled water so it will be about 17% then add 10-15 drops to a 8 0z glass of water. This can be used during and after a flu attack. It will eliminate just about any virus in your bowl system. It will convert to H2O or oxygen and boost the oxygen in your blood to help maintain a better immune system. If you take too much at once your body will just reject it and you will vomit.

Begin taking large quantities of turmeric and cod liver oil (these are anti inflamatories) - vitamin C and vitamin D.

People also suggest onions, lemon, honey, garlic, cayene pepper - and drink a lot - tea is very good.

posted on Nov, 19 2009 @ 12:40 AM
swine flu started in mexico right?

well if i'm right

USA is to Mexico as Russia is to _______.

posted on Nov, 19 2009 @ 01:28 AM
From another Flu thread, there might be an issue with more negative test false results:

More technical info on how the new shift might be impacting the swab testing:

If the swab is collected properly but still generating a negative, the involvement of D225G could be a ratio issue. If the ratio is swinging in favor of D225G which drives the virus to the lungs, then the virus may get cleared more quickly from the upper respiratory tract and register a negative becasue the virus has moved to the lungs.

This happened with H5N1 in Turkey, which involved another receptor domain change S227N. As a result the throat swabs of the patients were negative, but lung samples were positive. It is likely that mixtures were in play then also.

Thus, the frequency of negatives in upper respiratory tract increases as RBD changes drive the virus deep into lungs.

The bug is in such a hurry to get into the lungs now it might actually be clearing the nasal cavity mucho pronto.

Heh - see what I mean? The virologists always assume the nurse screwed up the swab. LOL

-If you feel like you have the flu and test negative -and-/-or- your symptoms move from upper respiratory to lungs in a big hurry I'd demand the Tamiflu and start taking it right away based on this info.

posted on Nov, 19 2009 @ 01:52 AM

Originally posted by windwaker
reply to post by ecoparity

I'm missing work today because of a horrible phlem-filled cough. This morning I saw a speck of blood. I am going to the doctor soon, but if he tries to give me the H1N1 Vaccine, I will refuse it.

I don't know what to do.

I recently had the exact same thing happen to me with noticeable spots of blood in the phlegm that came up seemingly out of nowhere just a light cough and there it was.This happened on two occasions both times first thing when I had got up.I think it is where you have trouble breathing during the night and it forms then.Anyway I didn't go to the docs and was fine after a few days.

posted on Nov, 19 2009 @ 05:11 AM
Ukraine, WHO and the Geopolitics of Swine Flu Panic

by F. William Engdahl

[edit on 19-11-2009 by sunsky]

posted on Nov, 19 2009 @ 05:19 AM
Nano Particles used in Untested H1N1 Swine Flu Vaccines

by F. William Engdahl

posted on Nov, 19 2009 @ 05:42 AM
Jane Burgermeister's letter to WHO minion Dr Chan

[edit on 19-11-2009 by sunsky]

posted on Nov, 19 2009 @ 06:48 AM

Originally posted by tarifa37

I recently had the exact same thing happen to me with noticeable spots of blood in the phlegm that came up seemingly out of nowhere just a light cough and there it was.This happened on two occasions both times first thing when I had got up.I think it is where you have trouble breathing during the night and it forms then.Anyway I didn't go to the docs and was fine after a few days.

I went to visit my doctor yesterday, and after a quick examination he told me I had Bronchitis, and gave me antibiotics. Hopefully they will work. Just out of curiosity, I asked him what he thought about the Ukranian Flu Outbreak, and he didn't respond. It's as if he didn't hear me. This is weird because he always responds to such questions.

posted on Nov, 19 2009 @ 06:52 AM
reply to post by Amagnon

I'll try everything except the food-grade Hydrogen Peroxide. I don't think I'll be able to get that online in time. Thanks for the advice. Sounds good.

posted on Nov, 19 2009 @ 10:19 AM
has anybody else actively been seeking to contact people in the ukraine? i have an so far they all say its hysteria

i will be continueing this for at least a few week but so far not one has said its anything like all the numerous reports have been making it out to be

posted on Nov, 19 2009 @ 02:21 PM
reply to post by neosceptic

The ATS member in the Ukraine thread confirmed the situation was as bad as reported and other members in the surrounding countries are reporting that things are getting bad there as well.

This is not some made up event, people are really getting sick and dying in droves.

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