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Killed in the Name of Christ

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posted on Nov, 19 2009 @ 03:58 AM
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Originally posted by Rockstrongo37
reply to post by woodwardjnr
 


I am afraid that your evidence truly isnt good enough...this is a man with an anti-american, anti-israeli agenda and much of what he says must be met with a critical ear.


but is reported by the BBC News website, which most would agree on here is a reliable news source. Just because it doesn't suit your agenda dont just dismiss it.




posted on Nov, 19 2009 @ 03:59 AM
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reply to post by Agree2Disagree
 





Do not think that I have come to bring peace upon the earth. I have come to bring not peace but the sword"


Needless to say you're claiming that these words do not mean what they actually say, there's seems a lot of this going on within the xtian mind.

It would seem that you imply the words of jesus have to be interpreted, for a guy that was supposed to be speaking to the lowly in life a bit much to ask do you not think ?

But if we look at the evidence the words actually ring true, he did not bring peace on earth, that did not happen. In fact ( relating to the thread topic) his followers brought nothing but torture and killing misogyny and child rape etc.

So it would appear based on evidence that the words actually meant what they said.

What about the future ?

many many xtians are running around doing the Chicken little, wailing how we are now in the end times and jesus is coming very soon. They know this is true because the prophesies describe the constant wars and unrest greed and such.

So it would seem that xtianity actually needs the aforesaid passage to mean what it says. In fact xtians need as much human misery and death as they can possibly get otherwise they can't point to their prophesies .

What's laughable is how many xtians complain about the sate of the world, they should be rejoicing at human decay as they would know their off to heaven pretty soon.



posted on Nov, 19 2009 @ 04:07 AM
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why do the religious believers feel they have all the answers and can explain away what the Bible says. As an atheist I'm prepared to be wrong if something with more irrifutable evidence comes along, that will change my initial belief on an issue.

with Religion your beliefs are cast in stone, laid out in a book 2,000 years old with many reproductions of the book, manipulated for the purpose of certain groups.

I imagine if we got a copy of the very original text, it would be full of violence



posted on Nov, 19 2009 @ 04:07 AM
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Originally posted by Agree2Disagree
reply to post by moocowman
 


So, the 150 some odd stories telling of a 'great flood' much like that in Noah's time all are plagiarisations as well? Or do they rather depict a common point of origin?

I'm not here to convince you of anything. You're here to convince yourself of what you believe.


So human memory carries a tale of floods (plural) many of the stories do indeed bear striking similarities. the Babylonian flood tale for example is quite similar .

Needless to say as the Babylonian stories were about before the bibles were written and the jews were allegedly held in captivity in Babylon, common sense would dictate that they probably acquired the tale there.

However we do now know that no flood has ever covered the entire planet so the bible story is completely wrong to begin with.



posted on Nov, 19 2009 @ 04:21 AM
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reply to post by woodwardjnr
 





why do the religious believers feel they have all the answers and can explain away what the Bible says. As an atheist I'm prepared to be wrong if something with more irrifutable evidence comes along, that will change my initial belief on an issue.


There are very few people that will admit they made the wrong decision, they will perform incredible mental gymnastics so as they do not have to even consider the possibility of admitting they made the wrong decision.

Baby circus elephants were kept in place with a chain staked firmly in the ground. When the elephant grew up it was so conditioned that even during a fire it wouldn't move and burn to death. The elephant could pull the tiny steak out of the ground without any effort and live.
Such is the conditioning of the xtian and very often he has conditioned himself to the illusion to such a degree that it has become a delusion.



posted on Nov, 19 2009 @ 12:21 PM
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Are you not familiar with parables and the like? It was common to speak symbolically. In fact, it's just as I said previously. "The sword" is symbolic of the separation and bickering that happens when say, for example, a child disowns his parents' God. It's not symbolic of death and rape. If you honestly think that, you need to study symbology a little bit more friend.

Our prophesies don't rely on "christianity" to fulfill themselves. In fact, with you saying that, you implied that only xtians commit murders and rape and all the other different kinds of atrocious acts.

No, what is really laughable is how misguided your view of the christian faith is. We do not rejoice when our brothers and sisters sin. The end times is nothing to look forward to, ESPECIALLY for believers who are tested and persecuted more-so than others.

Keep asking questions friend. I have more answers.

edit to add: I've never seen this irrefutable evidence that disproves a global flood. Perhaps you'd like to cite your source, or perhaps not.

[edit on 19-11-2009 by Agree2Disagree]



posted on Nov, 19 2009 @ 12:34 PM
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Do you feel the same regarding 'what white people do' in terms of all the lives they took and land they conquered in past centuries? Do you feel the same regarding 'what the Spanish do' when they expelled citizens en masse due to religious beliefs back in the 15th century? Do you feel the same for 'what the Chinese do' when they killed millions of their own citizens? Do you feel the same way regarding 'what black people do' in terms of genocide in Africa? Do you feel the same regarding 'what Muslims do' regarding the mass persecution of non Muslims during the Ottoman Empire? Do you feel the same way regarding 'what men do' in terms of violence against women throughout the world and history? Do you feel the same way regarding 'what atheists do' when they burn churches and torture religious believers by the millions in the East?

So do you like being held responsible for what your 'group' (whatever that may be) does, even if it was centuries ago? Not fun is it?

Yes, what these people did was WRONG and horrid. I don't know of any Christians who would condone it. But when we accept Christ, we get grouped with the monsters of long ago.

[edit on 11/19/2009 by AshleyD]



posted on Nov, 19 2009 @ 12:47 PM
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reply to post by moocowman
 


There is no right or wrong decision.

Do not worry my brothers and my sisters, go towards the path that puts you closer to divinity.

All paths are equally beautiful, unique, limitless.. No matter what you act upon or do all is how it should be.

Do not have faith! Have trust!

I will add, not to infringe upon your free will, that anything publicized is fabricated in some way yes even the bible and even Jesus of Nazeraths teaching. For where there is light there is darkness and where there is darkness light shall always prevail.

Namaste!



posted on Nov, 19 2009 @ 12:59 PM
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reply to post by AshleyD
 


Yes Ashley, when someone judges a book by a cover they have to lump everybody together. Most nonbelievers have no problem in doing so. The front of the book is a war on humanity depicting rape, murder, degradation, segregation, and indoctrination. The inside of the book, which so many neglect, offers a very compelling message of love and compassion.


Let's talk murder:

61,911,000 Murdered: The Soviet Gulag State
35,236,000 Murdered: The Communist Chinese Ant Hill
20,946,000 Murdered: The Nazi Genocide State
10,214,000 Murdered: The Depraved Nationalist Regime
5,964,000 Murdered: Japan's Savage Military
2,035,000 Murdered: The Khmer Rouge Hell State
1,883,000 Murdered: Turkey's Genocidal Purges
1,670,000 Murdered: The Vietnamese War State
1,585,000 Murdered: Poland's Ethnic Cleansing
1,503,000 Murdered: The Pakistani Cutthroat State
1,072,000 Murdered: Tito's Slaughterhouse

Suspected Murders
1,663,000 Murdered? Orwellian North Korea
1,417,000 Murdered? Barbarous Mexico
1,066,000 Murdered? Feudal Russia

Stalin himself is responsible for about 43million deaths.

CHRISTIANS?.....don't think so.



posted on Nov, 19 2009 @ 02:00 PM
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Originally posted by Agree2Disagree
Most nonbelievers have no problem in doing so. The front of the book is a war on humanity depicting rape, murder, degradation, segregation, and indoctrination. The inside of the book, which so many neglect, offers a very compelling message of love and compassion.


That's because the message you speak of is buried under a huge pile of violence. It's like an abusive husband telling his wife how much he loves her after he's done beating her for days.

As far as the numbers you've collected, did it occur to you that it is your god who caused these people to be killed by first placing them in the respective countries and time periods, then not stopping the dictators?
And the "free will" argument doesn't hold. What kind of god finds the free will of a dictator dearer to his heart than the "free will" of the millions and millions of people who die as a result of him not doing anything?

But then again, he didn't do anything to stop the torture and murder of his own son on the cross, so letting millions of people be tortured and die is not out of character for him.
If I were you I'd seriously reconsider the prospect of hanging out with such a god.

What if one day, after some time me being in heaven, this god decides it is my turn to be tortured and killed for the sins of, say, chickens on some planet?

If he could send his only son to die for the sins mankind, there is no telling what he could do with someone like myself who is not his son.



[edit on 19-11-2009 by tungus]



posted on Nov, 19 2009 @ 02:12 PM
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reply to post by tungus
 


Arguing that it's my God that didn't stop those violent acts is an invalid argument if you don't believe in Him.



posted on Nov, 19 2009 @ 02:28 PM
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reply to post by Agree2Disagree
 


Whether someone believes in him or not changes nothing for the people who died or for the people who will die in the future in variety of horrible ways.
The belief only matters whether one would side with a cosmic murderer.



posted on Nov, 19 2009 @ 02:42 PM
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reply to post by tungus
 


You do understand that what you're saying is akin to me blaming all the rape, murder, pillaging, violent acts, starvation and what-have-you on a dwarf that lives inside the earth and possesses magical powers, correct? Since I don't believe that dwarf exists, I can't possibly blame him for anything.

Own up for your race. Accept responsibility for your races actions. I do. I know it's man. I know mans ways are anything but pure. But no, according to your infallible logic, man is perfect in all ways and cannot err. Everything that goes wrong is Gods fault. Riiiight.....



posted on Nov, 19 2009 @ 03:27 PM
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Originally posted by Agree2Disagree
Own up for your race. Accept responsibility for your races actions. I do. I know it's man. I know mans ways are anything but pure. But no, according to your infallible logic, man is perfect in all ways and cannot err. Everything that goes wrong is Gods fault. Riiiight.....


We are talking about an all-powerful, all-knowing, all-able and so on creator, no? With ultimate authority comes ultimate responsibility. Ultimately, the responsibility lies with the one who stated it all. He could have done it right. He could have created any universe with any laws that he wanted, with any inhabitants that he wanted. He chose to create this one. He chose to create these people with these imperfections, which imperfections lead to these people's deeds.
Look, if you wish to defend his actions or lack thereof this is your prerogative.
I can see that faith conquers all. Apparently, the first thing faith conquers is one's own moral judgment. Your god wouldn't have it any other way.

Peace, my friend, always.




[edit on 19-11-2009 by tungus]



posted on Nov, 19 2009 @ 05:57 PM
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reply to post by AshleyD
 


I do see your point, however I didn't choose to be born white?

Would you join the ku klux klan?

Would you join the black panthers?

Would you join al qaeda?

Would you join the nazi party?

Would you join the communist party?

And Agree2disagree does it comfort you posting these types of numbers of atheist regimes? Does it take away the deaths that have occurred in Jesus's name or somehow justifies them? So lets say for a moment atheism has killed more than Christianity [I don't believe this for a minute] would it make any difference?

The topic is Killed in the Name of Christ, killed in the name of One person, and the numbers killed could be as high as 150,000,000 souls, because these people choose to worship another God/Goddess, or they refused to pay taxes to there church, or they were just heathens possibly ignorant and dumb.

Would you join the NRA if they had this type of past?

Would you join any group if they had this type of past?

Again posting a complete death toll is impossible, we are left to speculate how many have died in the name of ONE.

Looking over this thread I do appreciate the replies from both believers and non believers.

The one thing that rings true in history and as well as in these posts...........I don't see much love or understanding or tolerance. I have seen hate, and justifications based on the sins of others. Jesus taught us specific lessons, they are not followed now or in history, its so easy to blame others for our lack of personal responsibility.

This is a ugly topic and unfortunately my future threads will be uglier than this one.

We are taught to hate the sin not the sinner, we are taught don't blame religion for the sins of the individual. Frankly I think there are many that would like to ignore what has occurred in history, but I will not, I cannot.



posted on Nov, 19 2009 @ 06:05 PM
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reply to post by LDragonFire
 


And I didn't choose to kill anyone.

Your examples (Nazis, KKK, Al-Qaeda, etc.) are hate/extremist/militant groups. No, I would not join those because their ideology is unappealing to me. The thing is, Christianity really is about loving one another. So, I understand your feelings. I despise violence and am angered by the people who have done these things in the past due to the fact their actions mar us all. The ones who work in soup kitchens, volunteer at the hospital, and tend to the sick, etc. Who really try to be what Christ was about.

So it's wrong to group over two billion (modern) people in with the actions of people who lived 1,000 years ago. Comparing Christianity to the KKK is not the same thing. The KKK was built on hate. Christianity was built on love and caring for each other but it has been distorted and marred by some of the stains who associated with it. I get frustrated when I'm grouped with abortion clinic bombers and the Fred Phelps types (who you will NEVER see me defend). But for some reason, it really gets to me when we're labeled with those who lived centuries ago.

Again, I also understand. But your premise is no different than any form of prejudicial generalizations.



posted on Nov, 19 2009 @ 10:26 PM
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reply to post by tungus
 


Tungus,
Either you are agreeing that God is present and are blaming Him or you are denying that He exists and are still blaming Him. If the first is true, then your faith is very....unique. If the latter, you're beating a strawman.

LDragonFire,
No it does not comfort me because it's still murder and it's still wrong. My point is that it doesn't matter who does it. There is a wide variety of people that commit crimes and murders for various reasons or supposed-reasons(scapegoats). IMO, men mostly kill for power, not because they have some compelling feeling that God wants them to. Power is not something that is preached by the Bible. In fact, it's quite the opposite.



posted on Nov, 20 2009 @ 03:44 AM
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reply to post by Agree2Disagree
 





Are you not familiar with parables and the like? It was common to speak symbolically. In fact, it's just as I said previously. "The sword" is symbolic of the separation and bickering that happens


Do you have an up to date list of biblical words or sentences that are purely symbolic ?

Who told you this was symbolic ? Your pastor ? Did you come to this conclusion all by yourself ?

By the same reasoning we could conclude that resurrecting the dead is purely symbolic of the Egyptian resurrection cults?

Crucifixion and resurrection from the dead , pure symbolism alluding to other resurrection cults?

The parting of the red sea, pure symbolism alluding to Egyptian gods separating the waters.



posted on Nov, 20 2009 @ 03:48 AM
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reply to post by moocowman
 


(sarcasm)

You're right. Jesus carried around swords everywhere he went. Not symbolic at all.

(end sarcasm)



posted on Nov, 20 2009 @ 04:20 AM
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reply to post by LDragonFire
 





The topic is Killed in the Name of Christ, killed in the name of One person, and the numbers killed could be as high as 150,000,000


Perhaps what is also missing here is killed under the "Authority of Christ" this is what is troubling to me.

We constantly hear the whining of "real xtians don't do this or that" and the past has gone, bad things were done by bad people pretending.


The bibles have not changed that much, the way people choose to interpret them has.

When bibles are dished out to children they still contain the same filth, to be interpreted by whoever or whatever is fashionable at the time.

When a group of like minded people gain positions of authority in society they are likely to attempt to make laws to suit their particular beliefs .

If the source of their belief happens to be a bronze age story book which calls for the stoning to death of a law breaker, they may decide to instigate this behavior.

Some may argue the relevance of the law, but ultimately the ones with the greater amount of authority/power will hold out.

The Vatican for an example is a law unto itself should it decide to implement any of the repulsive behaviors contained in the bibles it may do so.
The fact that it does not do so at this moment in time is not a testament theological epiphanies in the priesthood but due to the loss of power it had over reasoning people.

The god of the bibles made it clear that anyone that consumed blood was committing one of the worst crimes of all and many xtians spin cartwheels of the mind to try and justify why this law is not applicable to them, although it was never repealed.

The same mental gymnastics are used in reverse in relation to worshiping other gods, they pick and choose to suit themselves.

One cannot help but wonder, what if Polpot happened to been born with the label xtian, how would he have chosen to interpreted scripture and how many of his christian followers would agree with him.



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