People Do Not Understand The Parables of Jesus Either.

First off I think many people on ATS and in general the internet are becoming a bit clueless to some simple understandings of the Bible. I keep seeing on Youtube and ATS alike people using parables or parts of the Bible thiking it was litral. This I blame on the governments who have squeezed basic Bible teaching in schools out, but tell a Christian why that is and you know they think it is a devilish conspiracy anyway...

From reading some parables most seem to be about getting to the Kingdom of Heaven and avoiding hell and how we reap what we sow or are like virgin brides in waiting to meet God. Lots of different symbolism, but it seems like people are becoming less aquainted in symbolism and they try and bash Jesus and the Bible and use it to compare to the Koran, further proof that someone does not know how to be literate.

www.rc.net...

www.gotquestions.org...




[edit on 17-11-2009 by The time lord]

[edit on 17-11-2009 by The time lord]

reply to post by The time lord


So if you don't take it literal, who's interpretation do you accept?

Do you see the problem here?

Unless of course that all you are supposed to "take" out of the parable is the moral, which in my opinion must then be taken literally.

After all, the only ones that know for sure what was meant, are long dead, and I just don't trust when you have to take someones interpretation over another as they are "right", but can't back up their view any better than the one they disagree with.

The interpretation you take is the repeated similarities of each story backed up by it's own message. When Jesus tells a Parable it is addressed as such, each parable is roughly about the same thing, that is working for God and getting to heaven, you are richer for example in doing his work than lets say a king is because you had belief. It is roughly the same story but told in different ways, that is how you know by cross references.

Because a Parable is headlined as a Parable before each parable is described, the Bible tells you which story or verse is a parable and which verse is not. A lot of the time it concerns salvation, something that has not happened yet unless you follow Jesus. But because he had not died on the cross yet and because they are still need to change their ways the event has not happened yet, but he also uses parables to show hyprocracy in people.

Also a lot of the people back then spoke this way so there was a cultral connection, parable and sayings are better remembered.

Today people have sayings like 'calling the kettle black' or 'don't cry over spilt milk' you know the meaning but does not mean you cry over spilt milk litrally although if it did happen maybe someone would be upset.

The litral part is the meaning not the story it self, how many movies have a moral story to it, it is the same thing, like teacher telling a story.



[edit on 17-11-2009 by The time lord]

[edit on 17-11-2009 by The time lord]

reply to post by tribewilder


You think of it in terms of math. Take 1+1=2. The 1's and 2's are symbols used to express something, what is is expressing is the general understanding of addition in math. 3+3=6 could have just as easily have been used. As such, to focus on the literal is to focus on the 1+1=2 rather than the understanding that is being expressed.

And anyone can go around repeating 1+1=2, but it's pretty well pointless if they don't understand what is being expressed there. Is unable to apply it to their daily lives.

So take Jesus and the mustard seed. Some people might say - well the mustard seed isn't the smallest seed in the world, so Jesus was wrong. They completely missed the entire point in the parable. It has nothing at all to do with an actual mustard seed. It's just being used to express a deeper understanding. Not to mention that if Jesus had mentioned something they didn't know and was the smallest seed in the world, then it's useless.

Knowledge of the holy is understanding, not literal words. The words are just used to express the understanding.

Don't take anyones word on anything, find out and understand for yourself. Seek and you will find.

[edit on 11/17/2009 by badmedia]

They are all related I think, it is about going to heaven, each one is about the future and salvation and judgement day and who entres and who does not. I hope people can understand this, if we do what is right now by faith and by repenting and taking the right path we can know God...
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Matthew 13:52-53
52 And he said to them, "Therefore every scribe who has been trained for the kingdom of heaven is like a householder who brings out of his treasure what is new and what is old." 53 And when Jesus had finished these parables, he went away from there.


Scripture: Luke 18:9-14

9 He also told this parable to some who trusted in themselves that they were righteous and despised others: 10 "Two men went up into the temple to pray, one a Pharisee and the other a tax collector. 11 The Pharisee stood and prayed thus with himself, `God, I thank thee that I am not like other men, extortioners, unjust, adulterers, or even like this tax collector. 12 I fast twice a week, I give tithes of all that I get.' 13 But the tax collector, standing far off, would not even lift up his eyes to heaven, but beat his breast, saying, `God, be merciful to me a sinner!' 14 I tell you, this man went down to his house justified rather than the other; for every one who exalts himself will be humbled, but he who humbles himself will be exalted."


Scripture: Mark 13:33-37 (Matthew 24:42)
33 Take heed, watch; for you do not know when the time will come.34 It is like a man going on a journey, when he leaves home and puts his servants in charge, each with his work, and commands the doorkeeper to be on the watch. 35 Watch therefore -- for you do not know when the master of the house will come, in the evening, or at midnight, or at cockcrow, or in the morning -- 36 lest he come suddenly and find you asleep. 37 And what I say to you I say to all: Watch."


Scripture: Luke 13:22-30
22 He went on his way through towns and villages, teaching, and journeying toward Jerusalem. 23 And some one said to him, "Lord, will those who are saved be few?" And he said to them, 24 "Strive to enter by the narrow door; for many, I tell you, will seek to enter and will not be able. 25 When once the householder has risen up and shut the door, you will begin to stand outside and to knock at the door, saying, `Lord, open to us.' He will answer you, `I do not know where you come from.' 26 Then you will begin to say, `We ate and drank in your presence, and you taught in our streets.' 27 But he will say, `I tell you, I do not know where you come from; depart from me, all you workers of iniquity!' 28 There you will weep and gnash your teeth, when you see Abraham and Isaac and Jacob and all the prophets in the kingdom of God and you yourselves thrust out. 29 And men will come from east and west, and from north and south, and sit at table in the kingdom of God. 30 And behold, some are last who will be first, and some are first who will be last."

Scripture: Luke 12:57-59 (see fuller version in Luke 12:54-59; Matthew 5:25f.)
57 "And why do you not judge for yourselves what is right?58 As you go with your accuser before the magistrate, make an effort to settle with him on the way, lest he drag you to the judge, and the judge hand you over to the officer, and the officer put you in prison. 59 I tell you, you will never get out till you have paid the very last copper."

Scripture: Mark 4:26-29
26 And he said, "The kingdom of God is as if a man should scatter seed upon the ground, 27 and should sleep and rise night and day, and the seed should sprout and grow, he knows not how. 28 The earth produces of itself, first the blade, then the ear, then the full grain in the ear. 29 But when the grain is ripe, at once he puts in the sickle, because the harvest has come."

Scripture: Matthew 7:15-20
15 "Beware of false prophets, who come to you in sheep's clothing but inwardly are ravenous wolves. 16 You will know them by their fruits. Are grapes gathered from thorns, or figs from thistles? 17 So, every sound tree bears good fruit, but the bad tree bears evil fruit. 18 A sound tree cannot bear evil fruit, nor can a bad tree bear good fruit. 19 Every tree that does not bear good fruit is cut down and thrown into the fire. 20 Thus you will know them by their fruits.

Scripture: Matthew 13:47-53
47 "Again, the kingdom of heaven is like a net which was thrown into the sea and gathered fish of every kind; 48 when it was full, men drew it ashore and sat down and sorted the good into vessels but threw away the bad. 49 So it will be at the close of the age. The angels will come out and separate the evil from the righteous, 50 and throw them into the furnace of fire; there men will weep and gnash their teeth. 51 "Have you understood all this?" They said to him, "Yes." 52 And he said to them, "Therefore every scribe who has been trained for the kingdom of heaven is like a householder who brings out of his treasure what is new and what is old." 53 And when Jesus had finished these parables, he went away from there.


[edit on 17-11-2009 by The time lord]

Originally posted by The time lord
They are all related I think, it is about going to heaven, each one is about the future and salvation and judgement day and who entres and who does not. I hope people can understand this, if we do what is right now by faith and by repenting and taking the right path we can know God...
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The parables are only futuristic, when they are not occurring in the lives of believers. People who are tangibly experiencing Gods kingdom get the added perk of understanding these parables for what they are; hidden things - things from of old.

If a person isn't experiencing, how in the world are they to understand the parables? So few really do find the kingdom of God, while they are alive because like you - they don't realize that they are supposed to be experiencing some of the parables NOW.

For instance, the parables of the mustard seed & that of the woman who hid a bit of leaven - both are compared to what the kingdom is likened to. The one thing, that both the seed & the leaven have in common is that they both "rise." Jesus came teaching the resurrection - which again is "rising." Most people just assume, that is only meant for when you die - that you will be raised again, in the resurrection. People who think that way are spiritually asleep and there are plenty of scripture that contradicts this line of thinking. Right off, the one that comes to mind is the one where angels of the Son of Man will be sent into the "kingdom" to gather the elect. Here it is obvious that the kingdom is and has been happening here on earth - and the elect are the spiritually awakened.

One of the truest teachings of Jesus is that of the first resurrection, and the signs, miracles & miraculous signs that happen to the believer while they are alive. Most everyone is worthy enough to be a part of the first resurrection but if they start setting limits on what may happen in this life - then they stunt their very own spiritual growth.

This may come as a shock to some but Jesus is supposed to resurrect INSIDE you. How else can he sup with you if he's not inside you?

He rises inside you. It is a tangible experience, with no second guessing.

Contained within us all, is a hidden, dormant spark of life. Jesus is the fanner of the flame, who ignites it. This is the spirit & fire baptism, that John the Baptist preached that would come AFTER him & water baptism.

And just like everything else - this fire rises. Like a seed growing up from the ground or leaven rising in dough, what happens inside you (the kingdom is truly within) is the spark/fire rises and cleanses your body, which is a temple.

If this fire is to rise, it has to have a point of origin. In the human body, the point of origin for the spark to ignite is in our feet. People really need to heed what Jesus taught about foot washing. If he doesn't wash you - you can have no part with him. None. At this moment, you may not understand this teaching completely but when you begin to understand that if you have already had a bath (better known as water baptism), then the only thing they need is their feet washed.

The key to unlocking all the mysteries that Jesus taught (and that is what the teachings are) is true repentance. People must have a change of heart and be open to the possibility that the things he taught can still come to fruition in your life. He is alive, for he has risen and he can STILL wash feet.

Originally posted by badmedia

So take Jesus and the mustard seed. Some people might say - well the mustard seed isn't the smallest seed in the world, so Jesus was wrong. They completely missed the entire point in the parable. It has nothing at all to do with an actual mustard seed. It's just being used to express a deeper understanding. Not to mention that if Jesus had mentioned something they didn't know and was the smallest seed in the world, then it's useless.

Yep, from my understanding of this, I think Jesus is saying that REAL faith is unquantifiable.. Like the relation of an on/off switch to a machinery.... Remember, no matter how big the machinery is, the switch will always be the same size and that is small enough to be manipulable by human fingers...'s

It simply falls whether you have this 'switch' to untold potential or not.

Parables? I think they are a very clever way to store information, imagine, one phrase, can have many different meanings. It might actually be the key to expanding human intelligence.

[edit on 17-11-2009 by ahnggk]

Some good points people, I guess somewhere in the Bible it says the kingdom is of God is in us, The Holy Spirit is in us and the Church is the people, so it is very grown into the human body and spirit of us humans.

The 144,000 with white robes who will rule with Christ and so on who become christ like.

reply to post by The time lord


It is talking about consciousness. When Jesus says what is flesh is flesh and what is spirit is spirit he is talking about consciousness.

The ability "to be" is divine. Without the father and that spirit within people, people would not know what it means to be. They would be like robots, no soul.

Consciousness also gives us choice/free will. Consciousness is not part of the physical world. The physical world is based on logic, action and reaction. There is no such thing as "choice" in a logical viewpoint. In fact, science all but ignores consciousness because of this when it comes to physics. Because science can't deal with choice, it needs things to be repeatable over and over, 99.9% of the time etc. Logic dictates what happens, no choice. Just like the laws of physics.

This is expressed in genesis. The word makes creation. The word is logic. Then, the spirit of the Lord descends into creation, and brings it to life. What is going on there?

Well, there are 2 parts to "reality". There is that which is observed (creation) and then there is that which observes it (consciousness/god). And in genesis, we see these 2 parts. Without something there to observe something, there is no "reality" there.

So, "life" is not really what you see when you look out there in the physical, in the physical body. Life is the father within it, who brings creation to life by observering/experiencing it. Important to understand when Jesus talks about God being the god of the living, not the dead. And in terms of what is alive and what is dead. Anything not a soul is dead.

And so our bodies are created from the dust of the earth. Our bodies are of creation itself, physical and bound by logic and the laws of physics. They are very advanced biological machines.

Try to define yourself and what "you" are. Think deeply. Everything you will name will be a possession. "Your body", "Your brain", "Your mind". Even "Your consciousness" or "Your soul". All possessions. How can one be a possession? What is it that possesses it? Ultimately, you can only see "I am that I am". That it is beyond creation itself, and can only be understood.

And then things like Jesus saying fear not that which can kill the body, but that which can kill the soul and such make more sense.

It is so special, and so great that words can't really do it justice. People just do not realize what a big deal it is, to be able to choose, understand, experience, observe and so forth.

And so the war on god is a war on consciousness. Those who seek power do not like it in others. They like robots. A rocket gives them power because the rocket has no choice. The rocket will do exactly what it is made to do, and that means power. If the rocket had choice, who knows where it would go - no power. And so through manipulation and fear, that is exactly what humans are turned into - for power.

What happens when someone sells their soul? They become a puppet. They give up their choice and such in exchange for material safety. You see them all the time on TV, telling things they know not to be true. They turn their back on the divinity, and then work to fool others into doing the same.

So the entire game/deception is to take away those things, and turn people into robots. Hide the truth from people, make them fear for their lives. Then, they introduce certain actions in order to bring about the reactions they want, just like that rocket.

But when people realize the truth, then they won't fear for their physical bodies and so forth, and as such they will no longer be manipulated. That is the day I wait for.

I can go on into the father and son relationship and what the difference is between them etc. But I've already been rambling a bit, so I'll spare it for now. However, people will have to find their spirit and gain understanding some day. And when that happens, what I say is like the tip of the iceberg. Life changing experience for sure.

Originally posted by ahnggk
Yep, from my understanding of this, I think Jesus is saying that REAL faith is unquantifiable.. Like the relation of an on/off switch to a machinery.... Remember, no matter how big the machinery is, the switch will always be the same size and that is small enough to be manipulable by human fingers...'s

It simply falls whether you have this 'switch' to untold potential or not.

Parables? I think they are a very clever way to store information, imagine, one phrase, can have many different meanings. It might actually be the key to expanding human intelligence.

I do agree that there are multiple meanings in things. Alot of it depends on where someone "is" currently. Other factors around you influence the way you see things etc.

I notice it alot in music. There are songs I listened to all my life, and yet now they mean things completely different and are much deeper, and I never seen that part in them before.

Same thing in the bible. I seen Jesus before I came to understanding, didn't really strike me as anything other than good ideas etc. But yet, after I came to understanding I see 1 little verse and soo much meaning comes out of it. Same words as before, the only thing that changed was me.

But I think I'd call it a dimmer switch rather than an on/off switch. Because even when the juice starts flowing a little more, it seems like there is always more juice coming in behind it and ramping things up. Meaning, the understanding seems to keep going and grows.

And so maybe Jesus is referring to in the mustard seed that is so small at the start, and yet grows into something much bigger. For me, it started with 1 simple tiny understanding, and has grown into much more understanding.

And yet, it can at the same time apply to so many other things and be just as valid. Basically anything that follows that pattern and is true(which can only be known by understanding the pattern). Just as the mustard seed itself followed the pattern which is what makes it suitable for the parable/understanding.

You get what you need at the time when you need it - even non-believers too.



[edit on 11/18/2009 by badmedia]

I understand what people are saying and never doubted it my self, guess sometimes other people can describe it better, might take a while for me to translate the vibe within.
What I see on ATS are people saying we are spirits in the material world, more the new age group out there, I do not agree with that notion, the Bible says we are from dust of the earth we are made from the particles of this earth.
Unless of course there are people on ATS who are spirits in the material world or they just don't know.

I still think the parables are about inheriting the kingdom of God, they are all about that same subject, of course there maybe a triple ended meaning no doubt.

reply to post by The time lord


I learned outside the bible personally. I did alot of "soul searching" and "truth seeking". Like I said in my other post, at the time I had no idea that Jesus was talking about such stuff. I had never understood the words with such deep meaning.

Now I hear those words and I know for a fact that he is telling the truth about what he says. I recognize the father within him, and I know where his understanding comes from. No doubt about it.

Our bodies are made from the dust of the earth, very much true. And your body will return to the earth from which it came, no doubt about it. But your soul/spirit belongs to the father, and all things of the father will eventually return to the father(Sorry, I know it's said in the bible, but I do not remember the verses).

John 3

3Jesus answered and said unto him, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born again, he cannot see the kingdom of God.

4Nicodemus saith unto him, How can a man be born when he is old? can he enter the second time into his mother's womb, and be born?

5Jesus answered, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born of water and of the Spirit, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God.

6That which is born of the flesh is flesh; and that which is born of the Spirit is spirit.

7Marvel not that I said unto thee, Ye must be born again.

8The wind bloweth where it listeth, and thou hearest the sound thereof, but canst not tell whence it cometh, and whither it goeth: so is every one that is born of the Spirit.

9Nicodemus answered and said unto him, How can these things be?

10Jesus answered and said unto him, Art thou a master of Israel, and knowest not these things?

11Verily, verily, I say unto thee, We speak that we do know, and testify that we have seen; and ye receive not our witness.

12If I have told you earthly things, and ye believe not, how shall ye believe, if I tell you of heavenly things?

13And no man hath ascended up to heaven, but he that came down from heaven, even the Son of man which is in heaven.

14And as Moses lifted up the serpent in the wilderness, even so must the Son of man be lifted up:

This is the reason you must be "born again" and "born of the spirit". When you are born of the spirit, then you realize who your true father is. Which is why Jesus says to call no man your father, except that which is in heaven. If he is your father as Jesus tells you, then you are his son.

Take a look at atheists. What do they see themselves as? Flesh. They do not see themselves as anything more than flesh. And that is because they have no been born again.

And those who see themselves as flesh fear losing it. And that is part of the manipulation and how they control people. Make people fear for their lives, and they will commit sins in order to do what? Save themselves. Which is why Jesus says that the man who saves himself loses himself. But the man who losses himself in the name of the truth, the way and the life(Jesus) shall find himself/life.

So marvel not that you must be born again. What Jesus is talking about is realizing the true nature and such. It is a life changing experience.

John 14 describes the being born again process and what happens.

John 14:20At that day ye shall know that I am in my Father, and ye in me, and I in you.

See, he talks about a specific day when you will know this. That day is the day your are born of spirit. On that day, you will know without a doubt the father is within you, just like I talk about. That btw is the verse that got me to read the bible. It was such a profound and deep truth, I was absolutely shocked and amazed to read it.

After that happens, it is followed by the holy spirit, who teaches and gives you understanding. No bible is really needed for these things honestly, but the bible does tell of these events that happen in a person, which only adds to the amazement.

So anyway, yes your body will return to the earth from which it came. But the spirit, it will be lifted up and returned to the father - no exceptions, except that people will not be in their current state when that happens, they will no longer be "poor in spirit".

You know when Jesus is asked if he is the son of god, he only quotes Psalm 82.

Psalm 82

1God standeth in the congregation of the mighty; he judgeth among the gods.

2How long will ye judge unjustly, and accept the persons of the wicked? Selah.

3Defend the poor and fatherless: do justice to the afflicted and needy.

4Deliver the poor and needy: rid them out of the hand of the wicked.

5 They know not, neither will they understand; they walk on in darkness: all the foundations of the earth are out of course.

6I have said, Ye are gods; and all of you are children of the most High.

7But ye shall die like men, and fall like one of the princes.

8Arise, O God, judge the earth: for thou shalt inherit all nations.

Those who know not are those who are poor in spirit. And it's not doom and gloom, because those who are poor in spirit are blessed. I can go into more detail on why if you want, but basically they are blessed because as they have not yet known the truth, they have also not rejected it.

New agers are ok I guess. The most common problem I have with new agers is they do not understand the difference between flesh and spirit. And so they tend to lump it all up as everything is connected and such, and then in such a concept the spirit becomes part of the physical to them. But really, they are 2 completely different things, and the only connection between them is the relationship that makes "reality".

[edit on 11/18/2009 by badmedia]

That is what I have been doing, soul searching within and then realise how what the Bible says is true, but for some to even get that far if they don't have a sense of self worth will never know or they have been oppressed in the wrong direction of faith. I feel a lot of people dictate what God is but do not have the capacity to feel it inside, some to me seem soulless, sometimes like these generation of kids today who think they evolved from mammals have no sense of spirituality and self worth so they become angry and want to even destroy others.

reply to post by The time lord


Bless them father, for they know not what they do.

Blessed are the poor in spirit, for theirs is the kingdom of heaven.

Why?

These people are blessed believe it or not. The reason is because these people you speak of are just poor in spirit. They do not know or understand the spirit at all, no understanding in the significance of "being". To them, such things are fairly tales.

So yes, they do many bad things and such. But that is by design. They are supposed to do those things. Not because it is right, but because this is the lesson of good and evil, and these people are getting first hand experience of evil. In the end, these people will be great souls with much understanding.

Seems crazy, but yet the reason is that since they have no clue of the truth, they haven't had a chance to reject the truth. They do so out of manipulation and fear(ignorance). They have had the truth shut out from them by men who tell people who to accept(over understanding) while claiming to be men of god(Matthew 23 talks about this stuff). Yes, both believers and non-believers fall and have accepted the same things - another topic I can go into if you like, it's what my sig is about.

But once the truth comes to them, then they will understand. Their poor spirits will no longer be poor, they will be rich in spirit(rich btw in the eyes of god = wisdom and understanding, proverbs 8). And as such, they will change their ways accordingly, IE: Repent for their sins.

They are the fatherless. Defend them, and try to help make them rich when possible, as they are poor. Rich in the eyes of the father, not rich in the eyes of men. Money is not what they need, nor do they need your charity(which is in most cases given to look good in the eyes of men, but not always).

The only ones who need worry are the wicked. The wicked already know the truth, and they have rejected it in exchange for their own benefit. Think of the place where the devil tries to tempt Jesus. Where Jesus said no, these people said yes.

So unlike the poor in spirit, they have already made that choice. I honestly don't know if they are given a 2nd chance or not, as what they have done is to blasphemy the holy spirit. The poor in spirit have no chance of doing that, because they can't blasphemy that they don't know. Thus, why I say if anyone need worry it would be them, not the ignorant. Ignorance is no excuse in a court of law on earth, as any man can pretend to be ignorant. But the father knows for sure, and thus ignorance is a valid excuse - if it be true ignorance. Kids are a good example of this.

Revelation means having a truth/understanding revealed. They will eventually know the truth, they are not lost by a long shot. And we are all like it or not are in the same boat. Otherwise, there would be no need to be here in the first place.

The Bible says that those who knew the truth and walked away from it is worse off than before. Of course you hear that from Muslims too who are even executed for leaving Islam, but that is because the rest of the message is missing the point of Christ and so they reinvented bondage where Moses left off so they dug their own hole again.
But we live in world with laws, if some kids break into your car, that car will be gone regardless of how sinless your life is and how forgiving you are, we are all in this non perfect world bound by currupt nature and death.

Different books of the Bible, how they are different from each other saying different things throughout Bible History and peoples and covenants. Man's relationship with God changing throughout history and different liturature. I feel some people paint it with one brush when obviously it is not one tone.


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Old Testament

The Law -
Genesis, Exodus, Leviticus, Numbers, Deuteronomy

History of the Jewish people -
Joshua, Judges, Ruth, 1 & 2 Samuel, 1 & 2 Kings, 1 & 2 Chronicles, Ezra, Nehemiah, Esther

Poetry: prose, song lyrics, wisdom, philosophy, love dialog -
Job, Psalms, Proverbs, Ecclesiastes, Song of Songs

Major Prophets -
Isaiah, Jeremiah, Lamentations, Ezekiel, Daniel


Minor Prophets -
Hosea, Joel, Amos, Obadiah, Jonah, Micah, Nahum, Habakkuk, Zephaniah, Haggai, Zechariah, Malachi

New Testament

Life of Jesus and early disciples -
Matthew, Mark, Luke, John, Acts


Letters to the early church -
Romans, 1 & 2 Corinthians, Galatians, Ephesians, Philippians, Colossians, 1 & 2 Thessalonians, 1 & 2 Timothy, Titus, Philemon, Hebrews, James, 1 & 2 Peter, 1, 2 & 3 John, Jude

Revelation -
Prophecy