Time to abolish Affirmative Action

Originally posted by Seiko
thesis

Wikipedia : Thesis or dissertation

Originally posted by Seiko

Race, Evolution, and Behavior: A Life History Perspective is a controversial book written by J. Philippe Rushton, a professor of psychology at the University of Western Ontario, and the current head of the Pioneer fund. Rushton argues that race is a valid biological concept and that racial differences frequently arrange in a continuum of Mongoloids (Orientals, East Asians) at one extreme, Negroids (blacks, Africans) at the opposite extreme, and Caucasoids (whites, Europeans) in the middle.

The book "argues" it does not prove.

It argues by referencing facts. As such, it proves.

Your semantics discussion is getting pretty silly.

Originally posted by Seiko
If the book is so inundated with scientific fact and studies, please present one here.

Why don't you just read the abridged version in PDF I linked to? Are you to lazy to do that?

reply to post by PC equals Newspeak


Just present a link to a scientific study proving this book. Is that so hard?

Stop evading the challenge, and present the scientific study. I am reading it, again it's an interesting opinion.

reply to post by woodwardjnr


If you give equal protection and opportunity you shouldn't have to promote women and minorities based on anything other than merit. They are perfectly capable. Last time I checked, no women or minorities that I'm aware of have been alive for 400 years.

Originally posted by Seiko
Just present a link to a scientific study proving this book. Is that so hard?

The book IS a scientific study. You would know that if you actually tried reading the abridged version I linked to.

Originally posted by Seiko
Stop evading the challenge, and present the scientific study. I am reading it, again it's an interesting opinion.

It's not an opinion. It's a scientific study, which you apparently fail to comprehend.

How old are you? 14?

My apologies to all contributing to this thread. After the thread's slow start, I figured it was my chance to catch up on the other things (work, family, etc.) and didn't keep up with the thread. Thank you to all who have contributed.

Let me respond by saying that I believe AA has done its job. When the act was created, there was no NAACP, ACLU, Negro Fund and the standards used to hire individuals were poor when compared to today's standards.

That being said, today's standards and the mindsets of those hiring are 179 degress from what they were in the 50's and 60's (my apologies but I'm not providing reference material for this statement). AA now places a burden on companies, schools, government agencies and other organizations instead of helping.

There is nothing good that comes from discrimination. Nothing. We should have a free market where the best make it, the rest get better and try again. Now everyone is supposed to be a winner and that just feeds into needing assistance.

Still goosed by AFFIRMATIVE ACTION are we?

You posted a long piece that was long on "facts"(?) and short on LOGIC.

If you get rid of AFFIRMATIVE ACTION say good bye to your CORPORATE INFRASTRUCTURE (and your WHITE cozy job). So-called Minorities are the backbone of all of your FORTUNE 500 companies--without which--AMERIKA would grind to a halt!

Quit Bellyaching about AA. Its too late. Blacks, People of Color and other Minorities (including White Women and Gays who also hopped on the Affirmative Action train) are part of the fabric of the economy now. You cant get rid of them without killing the patient (corporate Amerika).

So i guess REPARATIONS is out of the question? LOL! I will presume thats an AFFIRMATIVE.


[edit on 28-11-2009 by Konspiracy Brotha]

Originally posted by PC equals Newspeak

Originally posted by Southern Guardian
That being said I disagree with you on the analysis of equality between the ethnic and racial groups. Obama may have been elected and sure we saw improvements of both minority and gender differences over the years, but the disparities are still there.

Indeed. Currently, straight white males are discriminated in favor of women, homosexuals and black people.

Originally posted by Southern Guardian
African americans still earn at average about 70% of the income of whites

The average intelligence of these blacks is lower, so its only normal they are on average less educated, therefor get less well-paid jobs and thus have an overall less average wage. It's genetics talking, not prejudice.

Originally posted by Southern Guardian
woman are still marginalized

In what way? Seriously?!?

Originally posted by Southern Guardian
as of yet there has only been a very few select of woman among the supreme justices

Maybe that's because most men prefer to put their career first, whereas most women prefer to put their family first. Just like with the differences between blacks and whites, this seems more of a genetic difference than an issue of prejudice.

Originally posted by Southern Guardian
You can make good points against affirmative action and still understand more headway needs to be made for the sake of equality of all americans. Its still a long way to go.

The only way to go is the road to abolishing affirmative action. Anyone who claims blacks and women are still institutionally discriminated is an ignorant fool.

two people starred this post and it seems like self-gratuitious bs if you believe, honestly, that black people are dumber, and have stars beside your post, i will debate you and you'll be destroyed cause i've never heard that # before.
Check it, i aint no liberal.
you're a pice of #.

Call me on it.

Originally posted by PC equals Newspeak

Originally posted by heyo
reply to post by PC equals Newspeak

 

wow man. Like....
talk about balls.....
You can't just say that.
No source or anything.

I usually don't reference sources when stating the obvious. What exactly would you like me to provide source material for? What did I say that I supposebly can't say?

Originally posted by heyo
I'm kinda speechless. can't think. short sentences...all i can muster.....
in a nutshell:

Did your brains just fry because I made you think out of the box?

I've been around ats and i've debunked this rediculous assertion.
I'm a conservative man, so don't expect the usual guilt trip responses.

debate me on it.

I've not researched anything i'm simply talkative cause i've had a few too many drinks but what you fail to understand is MINORITIES DON'T NEED YOU.


anytime, anywhere.

i'm callin' you out.

Originally posted by Konspiracy Brotha
If you get rid of AFFIRMATIVE ACTION say good bye to your CORPORATE INFRASTRUCTURE (and your WHITE cozy job). So-called Minorities are the backbone of all of your FORTUNE 500 companies--without which--AMERIKA would grind to a halt!

While it is true that multi-nationals more and more rely on underpaid immigrants (both legal and illegal) from Second and Third World countries and offshore branches in Second and Third World countries, this is neither a good thing for the White working class nor for these people. As a matter of fact, we're dealing with legalised exploitation which in turn decreases the wages of the white working class as well.

Originally posted by Konspiracy Brotha
Quit Bellyaching about AA. Its too late. Blacks, People of Color and other Minorities (including White Women and Gays who also hopped on the Affirmative Action train) are part of the fabric of the economy now. You cant get rid of them without killing the patient (corporate Amerika).

Let's kill the patient then. I don't see why she should keep an economy based on exploitation and mindless consumerism alive.

Originally posted by heyo
two people starred this post and it seems like self-gratuitious bs if you believe, honestly, that black people are dumber, and have stars beside your post, i will debate you and you'll be destroyed cause i've never heard that # before.
Check it, i aint no liberal.
you're a pice of #.

Your ignorance doesn't change the facts that many researchers have proven beyond a reasonable doubt that American blacks score an average of 15 points lower at IQ-tests due to a combination of genetic and environmental factors. The importance of the genetic factor is shown when comparing the results of the white underclass with those of suburbian blacks. Although the gap is much smaller, the average IQ score of the white underclass is still higher than that of suburban blacks.

Originally posted by PC equals Newspeak
How old are you? You sound like someone not old enough to have worked in an office yet....

Why are you obsessed with people's ages and whether they've worked in an office, dude?

You questioned the validity of my posts on the same basis. Bizarre.

Oh, and are the books you referenced in this thread revered by white-supremacists and neo-nazis like your other sources?

And do the sources you cited adjust for quality of education? At least one of them doesn't. You might also want to check out "Inequality by Design: Cracking the Bell Curve Myth" if you're interested in scratching below the supercifical surface of the figures you've presented.

reply to post by Konspiracy Brotha


No need to put a ? next to facts as I clearly stated facts and their source. Logic is what you make of those facts and for me, working in a state government for 10+ years and having been a college student for 5 years of private and public schools, I see many problems with AA. It has become a "pass" to allow non-qualified candidates opportunties that they don't deserve based on their skin color, sex, sexual orientation, etc, etc, etc. Any time you offer a position to someone that is not qualified, you have a weaker product. Only when the best of the best earn their jobs and positions do we as a country (anyone's country) benefit. Not sure where the logic is wrong in that but I hope you will point it out.

I won't even address affirmations.

Originally posted by Roark
Oh, and are the books you referenced in this thread revered by white-supremacists and neo-nazis like your other sources?

Just so you don't embarrass yourself any further, I did a little research. Here is a FACT from a government source:

According to FBI statistics from 1995-2002, Whites are the second most targeted group for racially motivated hate crime in New York City

ref: What factors lead to cross-sectional variation in anti-White hate crime on the community district level?, American Society of Criminology (ASC)

Discrimination against white people is still RACISM! Seriously those asking for more "information" or stats need to remove their head from the sand.

reply to post by PC equals Newspeak


I had to jump in on this, couldn't resist. I'll just chime in and fade back to the back.

Your ignorance doesn't change the facts that many researchers have proven beyond a reasonable doubt that American blacks score an average of 15 points lower at IQ-tests due to a combination of genetic and environmental factors. The importance of the genetic factor is shown when comparing the results of the white underclass with those of suburbian blacks. Although the gap is much smaller, the average IQ score of the white underclass is still higher than that of suburban blacks.

That is one of the ridiculous assertions i've heard. LOL Your backing up your claim with the Bell Curve, oh my goodness, this is great! I love it because the Bell Curve is stereotypical all the way through and that's why that very book and those two other books like them aren't respected and seriously considered in academic circles...especially Sociology (i know because i discussed this topic with retired gentlemen with a PhD in Sociology who was in the field when those books dropped).

As for the OP, AA shouldn't be around. If black people were given the same chances and opportunities that white people had back in the day...AA wouldn't be needed.

But we live in an imperfect. AA though wrong it is needed. People still discriminate and hate...and hire people based on race. Not to mention admission to colleges. Just because you don't see it or experience it doesn't mean it don't happen.

You screaming about the unfairness of AA is like me screaming about the unfairness of the racism in South.

Heh, what i hear is "I'm white and i'm not going to take it anymore!" Well guess what...welcome to America. Where all of our hands are drenched in blood. It's the American way.


*yawn* Light work...

[edit on 10-12-2009 by cenpuppie]

reply to post by cenpuppie


It's nice to see more sane individuals in this thread. I too was going to respond but found myself replying to other threads and chalked this one. Many people here do not understand Eurocentrism so you can't expect them to understand why AA was implemented or needed.

reply to post by Roadblockx


You make a great point but I'm afraid its nothing more than a dream. Organizations such as the NAACP make millions off continued spreading of hate. There no longer looking for equality there looking for retribution.Then there is the democrats they believe that there social programs aimed toward blacks keep them voting democrat.So far they've been right however for how long who knows.And lets not forget the republicans afraid to stand for anything and has just become the party of I'm against everything! Society in general has become a give me culture and i fear the only thing that Will correct this is when theres nothing left to give.

Will Americans wake up and start trying to do whats right for the country instead of whats right for there election campaigns. We need a 3rd party willing to do whats right not whats popular or we are done.

This is all part of the Illuminati agenda...a silent conspiracy.

The NAACP was founded by a Jewish man owned and educated by the Rothschild Illuminati of Europe by the name of Jacob Schiff. Jacob had been sent to the US from Europe in 1911 to do the following:

1. The most important, was to acquire control of America's money system.

2. Find desirable men, who for a price, would be willing to serve as stooges for the great conspiracy and promote them into high places in our federal government, our Congress, and the U.S. Supreme Court, and all federal agencies.

3. Create minority group strife throughout the nations; particularly between the whites and blacks.

4. Create a movement to destroy religion in the United States; but Christianity to be the chief target.

Back to Afirmative Action or AA .

If indeed AA were taking jobs away from the more qualified whites then we would observe a degree of equivalency in employment/unemployment rates amongst the groups wouldn't we ?

Black unemployment was recently reported as 15.6 % which is 50% higher than White unemployment which currently stands at approximately 9.3 %.

At a disparate proportion of 50% higher unemployment amongst Blacks, It doesn't readily appear as if AA is contributing to unemployment amongst Whites but more so due to the simple fact that there are fewer jobs to go around amongst ALL Americans.

Why ? Partly due to corporate profits. American companies are hiring overseas for a fraction of the cost of paying an equivalent American for their experience.

This has been going on for sometime now amongst engineers in the high tech industry. If you can hire 3 foreigners for what you'd pay one American .....the rest is self explanatory.

And also as to why we graduate more Lawyers than Engineers here in the US. Who wants to look forward to forced early retirement/career change at age 50 ?

And lastly PCSpeak.... those are some pretty strong words.

I guess the government is looking for a few white supremacists here on ATS to track and round up before the revolution begins !




I am ending on that note, just to reiterate that the Powers That Be have long since established a system of division and hatred by controlling what we earn, what we learn and what we are told.

Remember .... The Truth shall set you FREE !!

woodwardjnr
In The UK we call it positive discrimination. I for one actually believe it's a good thing. Women and ethnic minorities have suffered the policies of negative discrimination for centuries. some positive discrimination is good for helping to balance things up a bit. The world (and ATS) is dominated by white males. I always like to hear the views of others and having a wider selection of views in society has to be a better thing?

I'm new to ATS but I see a large amount of pictures of women in the posters profiles. Either these guys have some issues or they are not guys. Either way they would be part of the so called minority. I am fully against the continuation of AA because being a white male I personally have been discriminated against because of it.