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For Some Smokers, Even Home Is Off Limits

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posted on Nov, 17 2009 @ 09:28 AM
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The movement to ban smoking in New York City has grown so quickly that no place seems immune — certainly not restaurants or bars, and public beaches and parks may not be far behind. Now the efforts are rapidly expanding into the living room.

In New York, more landlords are moving to prohibit smoking in their apartment buildings, telling potential tenants they can be evicted if they light up in them.

This month, the Related Companies will ban smoking at some of its downtown apartment buildings because of health concerns about secondhand smoke, according to company officials. Smokers who already live in any of these buildings will not be affected, according to Jeff Brodsky, a president of Related, which is a national developer with 17 buildings in Manhattan.

Other cities, through legislation or by initiatives of developers, have taken similar steps. In California, for example, all apartments and condos in Richmond, near San Francisco, must outlaw cigarette smoking, according to an ordinance passed in July. Across the bay in Belmont, a ban on smoking in apartments took effect in January after a 14-month grace period, with $100 fines possible for offenders.


www.nytimes.com...



This is interesting, smokers will soon really feel like they have less and less rights.
Personally when I smoke, I smoke in my garage and in my garage only!
anywhere else in the house is disgusting and the smell goes into furniture.

However of course the entire argument is different for apartment owners.
I see no problems if they have a balcony but what if they don't?\

Only smoke with your head sticking out the window?
That's what I used to do when I lived in a smaller house with no garage.
But how do you enforce that?

Touchy subject, oh yes it is!
However I must say non-smokers should have more rights than smokers.

If we want the right to poison our lungs that doesn't mean we have to impose it on non-smokers too who chose a healthier lifestyle.... which we should be envying.




posted on Nov, 17 2009 @ 09:36 AM
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I smoke in my yard. I have children and dont want to submit them to smoke, so when I have parties we all have to go out on the deck or yard to smoke.



posted on Nov, 17 2009 @ 09:40 AM
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reply to post by ModernAcademia
 


More big brother Hoya, Look how can you tell annyone they cant smoke in there own homes? People who live in cities get more polution in there lungs then a smoking could ever dream of.... This is what happens when you give the government and Inch.

Anyone ever heard that one story if you give a mouse a cookie, he wants a glass of milk?



posted on Nov, 17 2009 @ 09:50 AM
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I believe that there is a right for nonsmokers to have a space free of both smoke and second hand smoking, however this is getting ridiculous. To regulate what a person can and can not do in the privacy of their own home is just not feasible. Consider this, you don't smoke, and live in an anti smoking appartment building. It happens and is possible. Then your building manager, (Maybe you asked for one too many thing, or the manager just does not like you.) What is to stop you from being evicted, cause all the manager has to do is state he smelled tobacco smoke coming from your apartment on more than one occassion and then you are evicted on the grounds of violating the rental agreement. That is what these kinds of laws will do.



posted on Nov, 17 2009 @ 10:05 AM
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Its happening all over the "free" world.
In the UK you can be prosecuted for smoking in your own house if someone from the council arrives for whatever reason within half an hour of you smoking.
Also people who are self employed can be prosecuted if they smoke in their "place of work"i.e.their own van(even if theres no chance anyone else was going to be anywhere near said van)!!
And now we have a campaign in Wales(where I live)where the cops are filming people smoking in their own private cars,the,you guessed it-they bust you for it!
(Even though the law states you can only be busted if smoking causes you to lose concentration on the road,they are still trying to bust anyone for it!)

One of the hallmarks of impending totalitarianism is the inventing of pointless laws/bending of the rules to bust the little man on the street for basically,nothing(IMO).

The new anti smoking craze fits that bill I think.

Smoking is the new crack...

Take this to its conclusion and you get a population who is as totally institutionalised as the "lifer"or those who dwell in psychiatric hospitals.People who cannot think for themselves,who need to be "formed" by their loving leaders.
This is the plan I believe,to create mindless drone slaves out of potentially wonderful people.
It starts when you start school these days,with the whole"no physical contact with the other kids during play"rules that we are beginning to see-the smoking thing is more of the same-intended to wreak havoc on our ability to make our own choices in life.



posted on Nov, 17 2009 @ 10:05 AM
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We live in a condo which I own. Inside these walls are mine. Period. I have a title deed just like a house. They can't force that on me after I already own it. Luckily, here in Louisiana they are not too health conscious.

[edit on 17-11-2009 by JohnPhoenix]



posted on Nov, 17 2009 @ 10:06 AM
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First I am a smoker and I support the rights of non smokers. If these regulations are for central ventalating systems that encompass the entire building then I can see the point to an extent but that extent goes into the area of shared air which then includes the fungi, bacteria and other pollutates that are in the duct systems shared by all.

Now if you have a individual ventilating system for each unit then it should not apply as to your air doesn't affect others.

It just goes to show how our politicians don't think these things thru.



posted on Nov, 17 2009 @ 10:06 AM
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Hmm, interesting this one...

I'm a smoker and from Britain and the only real problem I have with the smoking ban over here is the fact that it has really damaged the pub/bar trade, due to the fact that it rains here more than half the time, so unless the pub can afford shelters, they lose trade.

As far as smoking in the home is concearned, over here it has always been the right of the landlord, as owner of the property to prohibit smoking in an apartment, although it is not part of the smoking ban. I think all Hell would break loose if they tried to ban us from smoking in private homes though. As the old saying goes, "An Englishman's home is his castle".

I personally have my own issues with the validity and common sense of claims of "Second Hand Smoke" and the damage it can do (although I am not dismissing them and I agree that non-smokers should have the right to live in a smoke-free environment), although that is a subject for a future thread I shall be posting when I have the time to do the reasearch.



posted on Nov, 17 2009 @ 10:12 AM
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Hehe, i don't see that one coming too soon to Berlin. I swear, sometimes it feels like everyone in this city is a smoker. They weren't even successful in banning smoking from bars, there are still plenty of bars where smoking is allowed. They only banned smoking in restaurants.



posted on Nov, 17 2009 @ 10:15 AM
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To all the nonsmokers and exsmokers who are happily patting themselves on their backs:


When they come after you for eating wrong will you be as happy? If they levied an 18% tax on all fast food, fined you for being overweight or levied a massive tax on any sort of processed food, will you happy then as well?

I do not need my government protecting me from myself. If this is done in the name of "all the medical costs incurred because of smoking", then what about all the costs incurred with people with bad eating? Its only a matter of time...



posted on Nov, 17 2009 @ 10:32 AM
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reply to post by spliff4020
 


Ya but this is not about you, it's about others
2nd hand smoking@!!



posted on Nov, 17 2009 @ 10:45 AM
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Let me begin by saying that I am a smoker.

Now that that is out of the way ... Why don't the governments of the world just make smoking illegal across the board?

If they were really worried about everyone's health than they would be protecting the smokers as well as the non-smokers. If I couldn't buy cigarettes I would be more inclined to quit.

Maybe the government should take some of those billions in cigarette taxes I've been paying ($10.25 per pack!), put it in an interest bearing bank account, make more billions, then outlaw smoking in general, put the tobacco companies out of business (this is the problem with the whole thing right here), and then use the money I've already paid to the government to give all of us going through withdrawal 'free' smoking cessation aids until we have gotten the nicotine out of our systems.

It makes much too much sense.

If smoking is as dangerous to my health as they make it seem with these laws (like smoking anywhere in a building will affect the health of everyone in the building) then why don't they protect me from it too? Why only protect those who aren't addicted?



posted on Nov, 17 2009 @ 10:46 AM
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Originally posted by spliff4020
To all the nonsmokers and exsmokers who are happily patting themselves on their backs:


When they come after you for eating wrong will you be as happy? If they levied an 18% tax on all fast food, fined you for being overweight or levied a massive tax on any sort of processed food, will you happy then as well?

I do not need my government protecting me from myself. If this is done in the name of "all the medical costs incurred because of smoking", then what about all the costs incurred with people with bad eating? Its only a matter of time...


Yes we should all be allowed to eat, drink or smoke ourselves to death. Personally I even have a problem with car seat belt legislation. But it's a bit disingenuous to use that argument against public smoking laws. Personally I react badly to cigarette smoke, but strangely, fat people don't have an effect!
Like someone said, it's quite common in UK for landlords of rented property to specify non smokers. That's more in the case of furnished property because the smoke gets into the fabrics. If you are a non smoker, it's horrible. I would not choose to live in a house that stinks of ANYTHING.
There has been a big debate in the UK about the public smoking ban. I support most of it, but IMO it's ridiculous when you move the ban to open air. We have had cases of hospital patients on drips having to stand by the entrances to the grounds. Plus there has been at least one case of a night staff being attacked because she was not allowed to stand just by the ward entrance. Also it's really silly when applied to vehicles and you are self employed and it's your own vehicle for heavens sake.



[edit on 17-11-2009 by unicorn1]



posted on Nov, 17 2009 @ 10:47 AM
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Originally posted by ModernAcademia
Ya but this is not about you, it's about others
2nd hand smoking@!!


2nd hand smoke is bull. it's an excuse used by ex-smokers to justify the fact that they hate being in the same room as a smoking smoker, mostly because the delicous smell of fresh tobacco smoke makes them want a smoke sooooo bad.

i only realised this last year when i gave up.

if you choose not to smoke in your house, that's your business, but if i want to let people smoke in my gaff, that's my business. people trying to tell me what to do in the abode i am paying for sticks in my craw. i'ld rather not live in a complex like that to be honest.



posted on Nov, 17 2009 @ 10:47 AM
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Originally posted by ModernAcademia
reply to post by spliff4020
 


Ya but this is not about you, it's about others
2nd hand smoking@!!


so morbidly obese people have the right to tell others not to harm them? And smoke in my house is going to kill you in yours? You really believe that nonsense? Sitting in a traffic jam with trucks belching filth from the tailpipes is ok, so long as I don't smoke in my car? wow....



posted on Nov, 17 2009 @ 10:49 AM
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Originally posted by Enrikez
Now that that is out of the way ... Why don't the governments of the world just make smoking illegal across the board?

Whenever the govt. makes something illegal a black market is created
making it illegal will just make it more available including to kids.
also then the govt. won't be able to tax it



posted on Nov, 17 2009 @ 10:53 AM
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The apartments i'm in went smoke free over a year ago. They dont even allow smoking outside, if caught renters will be evicted per terms.
There are many apartment and housing complexes here that are like that. It realy dose not effect me since i dont smoke, but i have to agree with many, where do you draw the line, sure i can see if you rent, they can put limits, but if you own our home, they should not be able to impose restrictions on what legaly happens in your own home.
Well legal for now.



posted on Nov, 17 2009 @ 10:54 AM
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Originally posted by spliff4020
so morbidly obese people have the right to tell others not to harm them?

That analogy is irrelevant and has zero pertinance to this topic
nobody is harming obese people other than themselves


Originally posted by spliff4020
And smoke in my house is going to kill you in yours?

some places have centralized AC
so possible yes, your smoking may affect other people's air


Originally posted by spliff4020
You really believe that nonsense? Sitting in a traffic jam with trucks belching filth from the tailpipes is ok, so long as I don't smoke in my car? wow....

this economy is transportation-driven.

you may have a point with that but you are still trying to justify one bad with another

that's like saying, ya I force my nephew to smoke cigarettes but his other uncles forces him to drink alcohol



posted on Nov, 17 2009 @ 10:57 AM
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If you're in an apartment or condo you're not really on your property. You live within an association or some other entity. Same with those gated communities that make it look like you own your own home but you dont.

No different than living in a college dorm.

Perhaps, get a real house? Then you can live under the tyranny of town ordinances.

Lots of fun this pretend property ownership game is.



posted on Nov, 17 2009 @ 11:00 AM
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Originally posted by ModernAcademia

Originally posted by Enrikez
Now that that is out of the way ... Why don't the governments of the world just make smoking illegal across the board?

Whenever the govt. makes something illegal a black market is created
making it illegal will just make it more available including to kids.
also then the govt. won't be able to tax it


IMO you are incredibly wrong on this point.

Sure, Indian reservations and the like will be making black market cigarettes and a small percentage of people will continue to smoke, but not having big tobacco factories producing these by the trillions will reduce supply which will increase cost which will make almost everyone quit.

When smoking a pack a day costs as much as a mortgage, people just won't pay it. Especially because there is no high or anything that you can get from smoking, no escapism nothing. Smoking would become cost prohibitive and utterly pointless.

What you are referencing between the lines in your post are drugs and prohibition models. Smoking cigarettes are a totally different animal, as they do not get you high.



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