It's funny, cuz i take Britain/UK as a moralized and intelligent group of leadership. Im not too keen on such relations, which is the reason I am
posting on your thread. If anyone can route me into a broad spectrum of what the UK may or may not pursue against world government, or anything they
bring to the tables, im all ears. I stay up on a lot of topics, considering china, the us, india and japan but have not gone into depth of the UK. If
anyone can please update my knowledge, it would be greatly appreciated... thanks!
Oh, BTW, im on my way to europe for the new year, so anything I should know before my arrival would be awesome for my socializing! thanks again...
[edit on 17-11-2009 by Tek-Neek55]
UK: Brown Calls For New Global Order... Again!, page 1
privacy
Topic started on 17-11-2009 @ 04:48 AM by Cythraul
The Metro
[edit on 17/11/2009 by Cythraul]
Gordon Brown will tonight claim Britain can 'inspire the world'.
The prime minister will also boast that 'Britain can lead in the construction of a new global order' during his annual foreign policy speech at the Lord Mayor's Banquet.
'I believe that Britain can challenge the world,' he will say. 'But most importantly of all I believe that Britain can and must play its full part in changing the world and to do so we must have confidence in our distinctive strengths: our global values, global alliances and global actions.
'Because, with conviction in our values and confidence in our alliances, Britain can lead in the construction of a new global order.'
He will also try to boost support for the war in Afghanistan by claiming: 'Al-Qaeda is today the biggest source of threat to our national security.'
The speech also contains comments about international co-operation, which are likely to be seen as an attack on Conservative Euroscepticism. And he will try to win back support from the BNP.
'At every point in our history where we have looked outwards, we have become stronger. And now, more than ever, there is no future in what was once called "splendid isolation",' he will insist.
'When Britain is bold, when Britain is engaged, when Britain is confident and outward-looking, we have shown time and again that Britain has a power and an energy that far exceeds the limits of our geography, our population, and our mean,' the PM will add.
'And that is why I say our foreign policy must be both patriotic and internationalist.'
The Metro
[edit on 17/11/2009 by Cythraul]
reply posted on 17-11-2009 @ 05:33 AM by Cythraul
reply to post by Tek-Neek55
Hmmm my belief is that all western leaders are above and beyond nation. Gordon Brown cares no more for the UK than Barack Obama cares for the USA. These people have no interest in separate, sovereign nations and when they claim to, they're lying. They know that the majority of the public care about their country remaining independent, so the leaders propagate the illusion of psuedo-nationalism when in reality they are entirely internationalist. Does that help answer your question?
What you should know about Europe - simply, the European Union is almost in full effect, meaning you'll essentially be visiting the modern version of the USSR. I don't know where in Europe you're visiting but if it's a majro city you'll probably find the indigenous people largely displaced and surveillance cameras on every corner.
Hmmm my belief is that all western leaders are above and beyond nation. Gordon Brown cares no more for the UK than Barack Obama cares for the USA. These people have no interest in separate, sovereign nations and when they claim to, they're lying. They know that the majority of the public care about their country remaining independent, so the leaders propagate the illusion of psuedo-nationalism when in reality they are entirely internationalist. Does that help answer your question?
What you should know about Europe - simply, the European Union is almost in full effect, meaning you'll essentially be visiting the modern version of the USSR. I don't know where in Europe you're visiting but if it's a majro city you'll probably find the indigenous people largely displaced and surveillance cameras on every corner.
reply posted on 17-11-2009 @ 06:05 AM by foxhoundone
reply to post by Cythraul
Surly Cythraul, We as a nation have to move in this direction for economic reasons alone..
Gone are the days of the cold war mindset, when Britain was central to Europe because of the Iron curtain, Now we are just a little gaggle of islands of the west coast of Europe with only one direct link to the European mainland (euro tunnel)..
Its important we get a stake in first to survive surly
Surly Cythraul, We as a nation have to move in this direction for economic reasons alone..
Gone are the days of the cold war mindset, when Britain was central to Europe because of the Iron curtain, Now we are just a little gaggle of islands of the west coast of Europe with only one direct link to the European mainland (euro tunnel)..
Its important we get a stake in first to survive surly
reply posted on 17-11-2009 @ 06:07 AM by LestatG
reply to post by Cythraul
"What you should know about Europe - simply, the European Union is almost in full effect, meaning you'll essentially be visiting the modern version of the USSR."
Great line. Perfectly summed up. I have been travelling in Europe for about 13 years now, and evermore it’s becoming controlled and each 'country' is losing their individuality. My mother’s family originate from Malta, I remember every year going there on holiday, now it is a member of the EU it is cleaner and has better roads. However, it is more expensive and smacks of every other country within the union.
Besides that have a great trip Tek-neek, there are many treasures and wonderful cultures to be found.
Peace
"What you should know about Europe - simply, the European Union is almost in full effect, meaning you'll essentially be visiting the modern version of the USSR."
Great line. Perfectly summed up. I have been travelling in Europe for about 13 years now, and evermore it’s becoming controlled and each 'country' is losing their individuality. My mother’s family originate from Malta, I remember every year going there on holiday, now it is a member of the EU it is cleaner and has better roads. However, it is more expensive and smacks of every other country within the union.
Besides that have a great trip Tek-neek, there are many treasures and wonderful cultures to be found.
Peace
reply posted on 17-11-2009 @ 06:18 AM by Cythraul
reply to post by foxhoundone
No. The EU is a major step towards the new world order, so the following will be as applicable to the NWO as it is the EU: The perceived economic benefits of joining the EU are not only based on lies, but any benefits that are genuine are the result of Problem, Reaction, Solution. The globalists create a problem, seek a reaction from the public and then offer their solution. In this case, to get the British Isles to agree to surrender sovereignty they created a problem - they did this by bankrupting the UK (ridiculous welfare system, selling gold supples at a loss, mass-immigration, the wars in the middle-east etc) and then they await the British public begging for EU membership. It hasn't quite happened according to their plan - most of Britain are still opposed to the EU.
Britain was more prosperous when at its most independent. If we need the EU it's only because someone deliberately destroyed the UK.
No. The EU is a major step towards the new world order, so the following will be as applicable to the NWO as it is the EU: The perceived economic benefits of joining the EU are not only based on lies, but any benefits that are genuine are the result of Problem, Reaction, Solution. The globalists create a problem, seek a reaction from the public and then offer their solution. In this case, to get the British Isles to agree to surrender sovereignty they created a problem - they did this by bankrupting the UK (ridiculous welfare system, selling gold supples at a loss, mass-immigration, the wars in the middle-east etc) and then they await the British public begging for EU membership. It hasn't quite happened according to their plan - most of Britain are still opposed to the EU.
Britain was more prosperous when at its most independent. If we need the EU it's only because someone deliberately destroyed the UK.
reply posted on 17-11-2009 @ 06:39 AM by foxhoundone
reply to post by Cythraul
Britain was more prosperous when at its most independent. If we need the EU it's only because someone deliberately destroyed the UK.
With this i am 100% agreement with you, gone is nearly all are manufacturing industry and all the nationalised utilities,
All are children can hope to aspire to is a job at fresco's,
But if we are out in the cold so to speak how can we manage to get a foothold on big European projects, For talks sake the design and build of a new bigger euro tunnel...
Britain was more prosperous when at its most independent. If we need the EU it's only because someone deliberately destroyed the UK.
With this i am 100% agreement with you, gone is nearly all are manufacturing industry and all the nationalised utilities,
All are children can hope to aspire to is a job at fresco's,
But if we are out in the cold so to speak how can we manage to get a foothold on big European projects, For talks sake the design and build of a new bigger euro tunnel...
reply posted on 17-11-2009 @ 07:05 AM by Dermo
reply to post by Tek-Neek55
Don't listen to this rubbish..
The only country with camera's on "every corner" is Britain.. the only country that generally dislikes the idea of being 'European' is Britain.. if you are wondering anything about 'Europe'.. as in the EU.. don't ask most British or Irish people as they are very disconnected. Most of the British thing stems from soreness at the disintegration of their Empire and us Irish are just.. Irish
Each country is losing their identity quite a bit but I and most of my compadres appreciate this to such a large extent because the bigger picture is so much more appealing.. and im not talking about power on the world stage, Im talking about superstate of soon to be 600 odd million, very wealthy, cultural, historic and enclosed enough to be completely self sufficient and secure while promoting peace, democracy, unity, prosperity and open mindedness.
By next year, the EU will be similar to the system used in the old USSR but with a lot more sovereignty for member states and promoting Socially Democratic Capitalism... not Authoritarian, Socialist or Communist.
IMO its mainly the small minded and nationalist individuals who do not support the EU (but then again, I support much of the New Global Order ideal which many don't agree with). All you have to do is ask them why, listen to their arguments from the perspective of a citizen of the world and hear the xenophobic, small minded and wannabe jingoistic statements you will get back. Or else you will simply hear fear of change or overly conservative or right wing views that have been the problem of this continent for thousands of years. People with problems with the EU and its progression generally skulk on sites like this because noone else has time for their opinions
@Tek-Neek55 Where abouts in the EU are you going? TBH, its generally not really a general topic of conversation except amongst the usual politically minded people and students.. its very detached from the average person but you will notice it a huge amount in Core Europe.. Its kind of an imaginary line drawn from London to Berlin & Paris to Vienna where the "European" mashup is crazy to see.
[edit on 17/11/09 by Dermo]
Don't listen to this rubbish..
the modern version of the USSR. I don't know where in Europe you're visiting but if it's a majro city you'll probably find the indigenous people largely displaced and surveillance cameras on every corner.
The only country with camera's on "every corner" is Britain.. the only country that generally dislikes the idea of being 'European' is Britain.. if you are wondering anything about 'Europe'.. as in the EU.. don't ask most British or Irish people as they are very disconnected. Most of the British thing stems from soreness at the disintegration of their Empire and us Irish are just.. Irish
Each country is losing their identity quite a bit but I and most of my compadres appreciate this to such a large extent because the bigger picture is so much more appealing.. and im not talking about power on the world stage, Im talking about superstate of soon to be 600 odd million, very wealthy, cultural, historic and enclosed enough to be completely self sufficient and secure while promoting peace, democracy, unity, prosperity and open mindedness.
By next year, the EU will be similar to the system used in the old USSR but with a lot more sovereignty for member states and promoting Socially Democratic Capitalism... not Authoritarian, Socialist or Communist.
IMO its mainly the small minded and nationalist individuals who do not support the EU (but then again, I support much of the New Global Order ideal which many don't agree with). All you have to do is ask them why, listen to their arguments from the perspective of a citizen of the world and hear the xenophobic, small minded and wannabe jingoistic statements you will get back. Or else you will simply hear fear of change or overly conservative or right wing views that have been the problem of this continent for thousands of years. People with problems with the EU and its progression generally skulk on sites like this because noone else has time for their opinions
@Tek-Neek55 Where abouts in the EU are you going? TBH, its generally not really a general topic of conversation except amongst the usual politically minded people and students.. its very detached from the average person but you will notice it a huge amount in Core Europe.. Its kind of an imaginary line drawn from London to Berlin & Paris to Vienna where the "European" mashup is crazy to see.
[edit on 17/11/09 by Dermo]
reply posted on 17-11-2009 @ 07:34 AM by Cythraul
reply to post by Dermo
Or alternatively, don't listen to this rubbish ^
There is one issue and one issue only - liberty. People like Dermo systematically label opponents of the EU and the NWO as 'right wing' or 'xenophobic' in an attempt to destroy discussion. People like myself couldn't care less about the left-right spectrum, nor do we fear all things foreign. On the contrary, my greatest concern is that in 100 years the unique cultures of various European nations will remain intact, so that my grandchildren might travel and experience the rich diversity that the world has to offer. I only fear a world where one might not know which city they're in without checking the name of the nearest train station. In that sense, I'd suggest Dermo is more xenophobic than someone like myself, for they fear global diversity.
Dermo - you speak of the EU "promoting Socially Democratic Capitalism... not Authoritarian, Socialist or Communist". Tell me: how Democratic has the process been so far? How many memberstates have even been allowed to vote on EU membership? How many have been forced to vote twice? That the EU will be Democratic, despite arising through entirely non-Democratic means, is the ultimate example of psychological denial.
And no, a new world order will not mean greater peace. It perhaps would if it came about naturally, through the mutual consent of all, or almost all of the planet's inhabitants. But centralised global power means ULTIMATE power. There are no political alternatives, no foreign governments to interject should tyranny arise, nowhere to run to and nowhere to hide. Power corrupts, and absolute power corrupts absolutey. Furthermore, ancient cultural methods of governance must make way for one homogenous 'western Democracy'. How's that for diversity, peace and love?
There's nothing positive about the EU and the NWO... unless you believe the words of tyrants.
Or alternatively, don't listen to this rubbish ^
There is one issue and one issue only - liberty. People like Dermo systematically label opponents of the EU and the NWO as 'right wing' or 'xenophobic' in an attempt to destroy discussion. People like myself couldn't care less about the left-right spectrum, nor do we fear all things foreign. On the contrary, my greatest concern is that in 100 years the unique cultures of various European nations will remain intact, so that my grandchildren might travel and experience the rich diversity that the world has to offer. I only fear a world where one might not know which city they're in without checking the name of the nearest train station. In that sense, I'd suggest Dermo is more xenophobic than someone like myself, for they fear global diversity.
Dermo - you speak of the EU "promoting Socially Democratic Capitalism... not Authoritarian, Socialist or Communist". Tell me: how Democratic has the process been so far? How many memberstates have even been allowed to vote on EU membership? How many have been forced to vote twice? That the EU will be Democratic, despite arising through entirely non-Democratic means, is the ultimate example of psychological denial.
And no, a new world order will not mean greater peace. It perhaps would if it came about naturally, through the mutual consent of all, or almost all of the planet's inhabitants. But centralised global power means ULTIMATE power. There are no political alternatives, no foreign governments to interject should tyranny arise, nowhere to run to and nowhere to hide. Power corrupts, and absolute power corrupts absolutey. Furthermore, ancient cultural methods of governance must make way for one homogenous 'western Democracy'. How's that for diversity, peace and love?
There's nothing positive about the EU and the NWO... unless you believe the words of tyrants.
reply posted on 17-11-2009 @ 08:07 AM by Dermo
Originally posted by Cythraul
reply to post by Dermo
Or alternatively, don't listen to this rubbish ^
Systematically.. No. In most cases.. Yes. Because that is the argument I am up against in the most part.. similar to most others who "Systematically" do this.
Liberty? You do live in a monarchy yes? What would you know about true liberty? At least the EU has a legal constitutional framework for protection of people's rights to vote, life etc built into its creation through Lisbon.
I fear global diversity? Your build up argument to that stinks man. Train station? What? Anyway, seeing as I would never want the complete breakdown of EU state borders because thats where the real power of the EU lies.. in the markets.. I don't have to worry about loss of Global diversity. And BTW.. I am, like everyone else, a deep down Xenophobe so..
Democracy.. You know the way your democratically elected leaders signed the treaties.. Yes? Oh that
How many policies do you have an outright say in in regards your leaders decisions..? Any? How is this different? No need to give me that old argument, it doesn't make any sense. If you have a problem with your elected leaders placing you in the EU.. take it up with them, not me or the EU
Forced to vote twice? Ireland yes.. so .25 of 1% of 500 million is a majority now? No? Then that means Ireland shouldn't have been allowed block the overall treaty ratification. Anyway.. we didn't vote on the same treaty twice.. we ha concessions and the size of the font had changed from the original constitution
There are plenty of things I don't agree with about the EU m8, I just choose to see them for what they are.. growing
pains, fast tracking etc. Anyway, the new EU gives you the option to leave the Union. If you have such a problem, then just leave.. I would never promote centralized global power.. just a multipolar world of trade blocs that are regulated and intertwined so much that they could not reverse in to a situation of World war.. similar to the EU situation. There will of course always be war while there are areas of the world and rogue states that simply won't develop with the rest.
I think the "New World Order" conspiracy of a dictatorial and authoritarian world leadership is complete nonsense TBH so I give it absolutely no time.
Tyrants? The EU leaders aren't the old British Monarchists or European dictators which ACTUALLY fall under the definition of tyrants and murderers.. they are elected for by our elected leaders. Just because there are people who advise, push and create in the shadows.. its still our leaders and by extension us who hold the power through the democratic process
Again.. as I said.. you don't like it? Lump it, instead of trying to drag opinion of it down to what you either want it to be subconsciously/what you see your country falling into/what your imagination and lack of faith in humanity has created as a future in your mind.
reply posted on 17-11-2009 @ 09:27 AM by Dermo
reply to post by Cythraul
Sorry but did I not say above that the EU is going to be, by next year, a..
How am I looking at the EU as a trade bloc?
Don't give me that rubbish about problems with the democratic process.. as the EU evolves, it is adding more democracy. Member state parliaments now have a direct say in the EU direction and policy.. The elected EU parliament is more powerful with Lisbon than with Nice and the democratic process is completely replacing the process that is already there. The only thing now that is not really democratic is the Commission but that is more of a bureaucratic partition of the EU than a section that really needs democracy.. Similar to the Civil service of most nations... So please don't try and tell me what I do and do not know about politics simply because you are looking for some kind of one up and clearly know nothing about my knowledge about the political spectrum.
Your argument is very similar to my arguments from a couple of years ago but the more I research the EU.. which is almost every day tbh, the more confident I am in its future. I see the possible conspiracy problems that will arise in many cases but the fact is, in this day and age, that cannot be avoided in any government.. including yours in the UK, mine in Ireland and ours in the EU.
And saying that others are ignorant because they don't share the same down beat, depressive view as you about something that has done so much good and has so much potential is a little bit hypocritical IMO. But I get that you are British and it is not an uncommon view there.. Im actually just back from Southampton where I was talking to people about this.
I get the issues you are bringing up because I used to bring them up every chance I got tbh but my knowledge of the EU, its direction and the process's involved in its evolution has come along in leaps and bounds.. mainly because of the whole Lisbon treaty thing in Ireland and so my opinion has changed overall. Im obviously skeptical about several processes but the overall out look is good.. For the next couple of hundred years anyway.
Fact is.. you are afraid of the evolution of human civilization and disappearance of the UK into irrelevance. Its ok, I understand.. Im not going to agree with you though.
[edit on 17/11/09 by Dermo]
Sorry but did I not say above that the EU is going to be, by next year, a..
superstate of soon to be 600 odd million, very wealthy, cultural, historic and enclosed enough to be completely self sufficient and secure while promoting peace, democracy, unity, prosperity and open mindedness.
How am I looking at the EU as a trade bloc?
Don't give me that rubbish about problems with the democratic process.. as the EU evolves, it is adding more democracy. Member state parliaments now have a direct say in the EU direction and policy.. The elected EU parliament is more powerful with Lisbon than with Nice and the democratic process is completely replacing the process that is already there. The only thing now that is not really democratic is the Commission but that is more of a bureaucratic partition of the EU than a section that really needs democracy.. Similar to the Civil service of most nations... So please don't try and tell me what I do and do not know about politics simply because you are looking for some kind of one up and clearly know nothing about my knowledge about the political spectrum.
Your argument is very similar to my arguments from a couple of years ago but the more I research the EU.. which is almost every day tbh, the more confident I am in its future. I see the possible conspiracy problems that will arise in many cases but the fact is, in this day and age, that cannot be avoided in any government.. including yours in the UK, mine in Ireland and ours in the EU.
And saying that others are ignorant because they don't share the same down beat, depressive view as you about something that has done so much good and has so much potential is a little bit hypocritical IMO. But I get that you are British and it is not an uncommon view there.. Im actually just back from Southampton where I was talking to people about this.
I get the issues you are bringing up because I used to bring them up every chance I got tbh but my knowledge of the EU, its direction and the process's involved in its evolution has come along in leaps and bounds.. mainly because of the whole Lisbon treaty thing in Ireland and so my opinion has changed overall. Im obviously skeptical about several processes but the overall out look is good.. For the next couple of hundred years anyway.
Fact is.. you are afraid of the evolution of human civilization and disappearance of the UK into irrelevance. Its ok, I understand.. Im not going to agree with you though.
[edit on 17/11/09 by Dermo]
reply posted on 17-11-2009 @ 09:43 AM by illuminatislave
Originally posted by Cythraul
reply to post by foxhoundone
Britain was more prosperous when at its most independent. If we need the EU it's only because someone deliberately destroyed the UK.
Similar to the way the United States is currently being destroyed, but people over here scoff at the idea of a NAU because we're "so much better" than the Canadians and Mexicans. Ha!!!
reply posted on 17-11-2009 @ 09:54 AM by quackers
reply to post by nik1halo
The Queen's parliament may be elected by the people, but their job as a body is to do what is best in respect to the crown, not the people. They decide what is best for the people, then enact legislation to that effect. If we were a democratic nation, then our elected government would represent the views of the people, they would enact legislation based on what the people thought was good for themselves. That is called democratic representation, and there is none of that in the UK, only party politics and party whips. The whip's job is to make sure your MP votes with the party, does what the shepard wants the rest of the herd to do. That is not a democracy.
[edit on 17-11-2009 by quackers]
The Queen's parliament may be elected by the people, but their job as a body is to do what is best in respect to the crown, not the people. They decide what is best for the people, then enact legislation to that effect. If we were a democratic nation, then our elected government would represent the views of the people, they would enact legislation based on what the people thought was good for themselves. That is called democratic representation, and there is none of that in the UK, only party politics and party whips. The whip's job is to make sure your MP votes with the party, does what the shepard wants the rest of the herd to do. That is not a democracy.
[edit on 17-11-2009 by quackers]
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