Scotland United vs Scottish Defence League, page 1

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Topic started on 16-11-2009 @ 04:38 AM by Nammu

There was a major protest held in Glasgow on Saturday. The Scottish Defence League (SDL) had applied to police for the rights to hold a protest outside the central mosque. Scotland United, which is formed of many groups including the Scottish Soclialist party, trade unions, SNP, United Against Fascism, Scottish Palestine Solidarity Campaign and many others, formed a counter demonstration. The police, quite rightly, refused both groups permission to congregate outside the mosque. I decided to march in support of Scotland United, and what a day it was!

We gathered at Glasgow Green to a carnival atmosphere. The weather was good, the people were happy. There crowd was a mixture of every part or society, young and old, men and women, babies in prams and dogs on leads. It felt wonderful to be a part of it.

We marched down Clyde St, up Jamaica St, along Argyle St up to George Square. The city centre was busy and the people lining the street were smiling, clapping and showing their support.

When marching along Argyle St there was one man at the side of the road started shouting racist comments at the protesters. The police swooped in quickly to move him away and everyone kept their tempers. Then when we reached Queen St the same guy and a few SDL supporters had taken a shortcut down a lane and started again shouting abuse at the protesters. The atmosphere changed in a second! The crowd roared 'booooooo!' and suddenly surged in their direction. The police were again very quick in moving into position and getting rid of the troublemakers.

I must say that the police were excellent the whole time and many people attending the protest commented on this. They seemed to be having as good a time as we were, laughing and joking both amongst themselves and the protesters. It was a lovely thing to see.

There was over 1,500 of us in total. There was only 70 or so at the SDL protest.

They were pinned in up at Cambridge St on the other side of town. There was also a small counter-protest across from them. They were brought in by bus, protested for a while, then immediately got on a bus again to be taken away from the protest site. Members of the public were heard shouting 'scum' at them. a friend of mine said they looked very intimidating and many of them had their faces covered.

There was only 5 arrests, which is a great result for having two high-profile conflicting protests. I think the Glasgow police force have good crowd skills from old firm games and the many orange walks the city experiences.

I'm so glad that our protest was so large and theirs was so small. It shows that Scotland is a country that respects people of any colour, any religion, any background and from any part of society. The SDL's 'anti-islamist' movement does nothing apart from create tension. I was shocked to hear that some SDL supporters were arrested outside Central Station for giving Nazi salutes. We need to stand for our communities and against those that want to break them up.

Five arrests in Glasgow 'anti-Islam' protest

Brief report from the anti 'SDL' in Glasgow

[edit on 16-11-2009 by Nammu]

reply posted on 16-11-2009 @ 07:27 AM by william76

Originally posted by Nammu

Then when we reached Queen St the same guy and a few SDL supporters had taken a shortcut down a lane and started again shouting abuse at the protesters. The atmosphere changed in a second! The crowd roared 'booooooo!' and suddenly surged in their direction. The police were again very quick in moving into position and getting rid of the troublemakers.

[edit on 16-11-2009 by Nammu]

firstly i tried to join the SDL demo but the organisation was a shambles. i must state that i am NOT a racist, i am NOT a thug and i DETEST nazi's. i passed the scotland united demo several times on saturday and i seen no trouble and i did not make my points to the SU demo as it is my belief we ALL have the right to peaceful protest and to air our views. however i have to point out to you that in your own words the SDL supporters were merely stating thier views to the SU demo and again in your own words the SU demo surged towards the SDL demonstrators obviously in an aggresive manner. that is a scene that has been repeated all over britian, SDL, EDL protesters having a peaceful protest and the SU or anti facist groups behaving in a violent manner towards people merely wanting thier voices heard. i dont expect you will see the irony in that given you believe you are taking part in a demo against thugs with people who are behaving like thugs.

incidently can you explain to me with what you regard as a troublemaker ? is it someone who airs thier views through voice ? or is it someone who tries to attack someone for not sharing the same opinion as yourself ?

[edit on 16-11-2009 by william76]

reply posted on 16-11-2009 @ 07:53 AM by william76

Originally posted by Nammu
.

They were pinned in up at Cambridge St on the other side of town.

[edit on 16-11-2009 by Nammu]

yes thats true freedom of speech and right to peacful protest here in the UK. dont come crying when you want to protest against something the government deem not in thier interests and your the one being opressed and made to look like a vile human being. also take time out to remember the incident at glasgow airport and the next time the islamic extremists strike you will have inadvertently helped them in thier efforts. you are actually rejoicing in the fact that you are acting like a facist along with the powers that be in britian by opressing free speech and still you will see nothing wrong in that.

reply posted on 16-11-2009 @ 08:43 AM by Saoirse

In my opinion, these protests against islamic extremists are nothing more than racism in disguise. These people emigrated in the hope of a better future but now suffer being racially profiled as a threat

reply posted on 16-11-2009 @ 09:51 AM by william76

Originally posted by Saoirse
In my opinion, these protests against islamic extremists are nothing more than racism in disguise. These people emigrated in the hope of a better future but now suffer being racially profiled as a threat

so are you denying that there are not islamic extremists giving hate speaches around the UK ? or that people should just sit back and be happy for these vile human beings to spew thier hatred ? if they came to the UK for a better life then good on them but i would seriously question why anyone who came here for a better future would want to move thousands of miles to a country and culture they openly want to destroy. it makes no sense and it is important to distinguish the difference between those seeking a better future and those seeking death, destruction and oppression. i dont want sharia law here in britian and i will make no apologies to anyone for saying so.

reply posted on 16-11-2009 @ 10:11 AM by quackers

reply to post by Saoirse

You seem to be ignorant of the fact that many people are concerned about Islamic extremism. They have had it shoved in every orifice by the government and the media for the last 8 years, what do you expect? But to label them all racist? Well if they are racist, it has been because of the racist propaganda spouted by the current government and the media, for they are the fear peddlers. "Anti-extremism = racism". Simple as that really.

[edit on 16-11-2009 by quackers]

reply posted on 16-11-2009 @ 11:21 AM by Saoirse

Are these the people behind the SDL and various other groups?
casualsunited.webs.com...

Serious question btw, its only today ive actually read about anything relating to this thread.

reply posted on 16-11-2009 @ 02:24 PM by william76

Originally posted by Saoirse
Are these the people behind the SDL and various other groups?
casualsunited.webs.com...

Serious question btw, its only today ive actually read about anything relating to this thread.

i said on a post in another thread that there is a bad element seems to have attached itself to the EDL SDL, mainly football hooligans and BNP members. i am niether. i was going for a peaceful demonstration and if such elements were evident then i did not want to be associated with such people and i would leave. on the EDL website they state that they do not represent any far right groups and they are not welcome at thier protests. i had to take them at thier word on this but if it turned out to be like that then i wanted no part of it. this said the EDL SDL to my knowledge have not used violence on anyone at thier demonstrations depite being violently attacked by anti facist groups every time they protest.

reply posted on 17-11-2009 @ 04:36 AM by Nammu

reply to post by william76

firstly i tried to join the SDL demo but the organisation was a shambles. i must state that i am NOT a racist, i am NOT a thug and i DETEST nazi's.

Mate, SDL supporters were arrested outside Central for giving nazi salutes and one guy was involved in a racial incident in Ibrox. Why would you want to be associated with that if you're not racist, not a thug and detest nazis?

however i have to point out to you that in your own words the SDL supporters were merely stating thier views to the SU demo and again in your own words the SU demo surged towards the SDL demonstrators obviously in an aggresive manner. that is a scene that has been repeated all over britian, SDL, EDL protesters having a peaceful protest and the SU or anti facist groups behaving in a violent manner towards people merely wanting thier voices heard.

No, the SDL guys were not merely stating their views to the SU demo. They were shouting racist abuse in the street and trying to start something.

i dont expect you will see the irony in that given you believe you are taking part in a demo against thugs with people who are behaving like thugs.

No one person there in over 1,500 people behaved like a thug. The 5 people that did got arrested, and they were SDL supporters.

I also don't expect you'd see the irony in supporting a group that's filled with racists, thugs and nazis whilst claiming to abhor such people.

incidently can you explain to me with what you regard as a troublemaker ? is it someone who airs thier views through voice ? or is it someone who tries to attack someone for not sharing the same opinion as yourself ?

Troublemaker = a person making trouble obviously. There's a difference in voicing your opinion and stirring things up. Shouting racist abuse in the street is NOT voicing your opinion. And if you believe it is, then i'm sorry sir but that would make you a racist.

reply posted on 17-11-2009 @ 04:49 AM by Nammu

reply to post by william76

The thing that annoys me about the SDL/EDL is that they appear to not be interested at all in actually making anything better. They say they want to protest the British/English/Scottish way of like from Muslim extremist but their method of doing that is to shout about how bad Muslims are in the street, give nazi salutes, make racist comments and get involved in racially aggrevated incidents. Yeah, really helping there guys.

Lets face it. They're only interested in creating tension and nothing else. They are casuals, BNP supporters and neo-nazis.

If they're that worried about Muslim extremism then why aren't they tackling this at it's root? Why aren't they building rapport with mosques and working with Muslim communities to route this out? If moderate Muslims are ok in their book, then why racially abuse moderate Muslims and why not work with them to try to tackle the problem?

reply posted on 17-11-2009 @ 07:47 AM by william76

Originally posted by Nammu
reply to post by william76

Mate, SDL supporters were arrested outside Central for giving nazi salutes and one guy was involved in a racial incident in Ibrox. Why would you want to be associated with that if you're not racist, not a thug and detest nazis?

i have said in a previous post that there is an unsavioury element which has attached itself to this demo. i can only speak for myself and be responsible for my own actions and i in no way condone such behaviour.

No, the SDL guys were not merely stating their views to the SU demo. They were shouting racist abuse in the street and trying to start something.

what was this racist abuse being shouted ? was it anti islamic extremist or anti islamic ?

No one person there in over 1,500 people behaved like a thug. The 5 people that did got arrested, and they were SDL supporters.
I also don't expect you'd see the irony in supporting a group that's filled with racists, thugs and nazis whilst claiming to abhor such people.

no one person acted like a thug. by your own admission most if not all of the SU acted like thugs by acting in a violent manner. i have stated before and i will state again i DO NOT condone people acting racist, thugs, or nazi's. tthe EDL and SDL have stated these people go against everything they stand for. if such elements attach themselves to them then it is very hard for the good people to weed these people out. be clear these people go against everthing the EDL SDL are trying to do. we cant replace one form of religous hatred with another.

Troublemaker = a person making trouble obviously. There's a difference in voicing your opinion and stirring things up. Shouting racist abuse in the street is NOT voicing your opinion. And if you believe it is, then i'm sorry sir but that would make you a racist.

sticks and stones will break my bones but names will never hurt me. in short let the police deal with these people. these people do not speak for me which part of that do you not understand ? dont call me a racist you dont even know me so how dare you judge me. incidently why is it always the EDL SDL being arrested depite many peaceful EDL demonstrators being violently attacked by anti facist demonstrators ? ask your FACIST government for the answer. i suppose you will say the people stabbing people, throwing rocks and bottles at previous PEACEFUL EDL demonstrations are just a bad element that have attached themselves to the anti facist movement to stoke up trouble ? they never seem to get arrested though and i seriously question why that is. the fact that these people attach themselves to the side of the demonstration you have joined does not give me a right to brand you a racist, thug or jihadist. you get my point ? i have no authority to pre judge you for having a different opinion than myself and i wont stoop that low.

reply posted on 17-11-2009 @ 08:29 AM by Nammu

reply to post by william76

in short let the police deal with these people.

Which they did do, and they did this very very well. The police were excellent the whole time.

dont call me a racist you dont even know me so how dare you judge me

I did not at any point call you a racist. i asked the question "SDL supporters were arrested outside Central for giving nazi salutes and one guy was involved in a racial incident in Ibrox. Why would you want to be associated with that if you're not racist, not a thug and detest nazis?"

I also stated "Shouting racist abuse in the street is NOT voicing your opinion. And if you believe it is, then i'm sorry sir but that would make you a racist.", which is not calling you a racist.

suppose you will say the people stabbing people, throwing rocks and bottles at previous PEACEFUL EDL demonstrations are just a bad element that have attached themselves to the anti facist movement to stoke up trouble ?

I'm as wary of the fascist left movement as i am the facist right. There's no difference between the two.

the fact that these people attach themselves to the side of the demonstration you have joined does not give me a right to brand you a racist, thug or jihadist. you get my point ? i have no authority to pre judge you for having a different opinion than myself and i wont stoop that low.

I didn't brand you anything. I asked a question and made a statement that sticking up for people making racist comments would make that person a racist. I'm definitely sure that if you'd heard what the guy said you wouldn't be questioning whether or not he was a troublemaker or a racist, and i can assure you if you are against racism in any way shape or form you would have detested what the guy said. I won't repeat it for obvious reasons.

Don't get me wrong, i'm not a fan of UAF myself because of the trouble they've started at other demos. I'm not blind. But they stayed away from the SDL supporters in the Glasgow protest and let them get on with the protesting. And they were actually a minority group in the 1,500 people that attended. Even the small counter-protest besige the SDL one wasn't associated with any organisation and was peaceful on both sides.

But lets see the SDL/EDL actually doing something to help tackle extremism if they want to be noticed and taken seriously.

reply posted on 17-11-2009 @ 10:32 AM by william76

this is crazy nammu we could go on like this forever. i can tell from the way you explain yourself that you are not a racist or thug and i respect that you trully believe in the reasons why you attended this demo and i would sincerely hope that you can understand my reasons for feeling the need to make a stand for what i believe. this is the only time in my life i have ever attended any demo and ironically when you get rid of all the nasty elements on both sides of the fence i believe we are all demonstrating against the same thing. (religous hatred no matter what mask it hides behind) i believe there is a bigger picture to all of this and i believe that our FACIST government has put us all in a terrible situation with thier illegal war which has seen 1,000,000 of our innocent fellow human beings murdered in iraq and given these islamic extremist fuel for thier fire which in turn has given these nazi morons fuel for thier fire.
this is imo what they want, for as long as we argue amongst ourselves it will deflect from the real reason why we find ourselves here and on the streets which ultimately is THEM.

[edit on 17-11-2009 by william76]

reply posted on 17-11-2009 @ 04:22 PM by Laurauk

I am sorry to have to post this, bith sides are as bad as each other, I do not care either if there are members of ATS whomare involved in these groups.

We do not need this in Scotland, we have enough division, between the Prodestant Faith and the Catholic faith, without starting another religious war.

For goodness sake, think of your children, do you really, want them to live in a society hating each other?, Protesting violently against each other? Boming each other?, Killing one another, that is going to happen if we do reconcile the differences that there is between these both groups and other groups within Scotland.

I will say today, Scotland is fastly becomming the next Ireland. If we do not stop an think on what we are doing. Do we really as a nation want to go down this route?

I for one do not want it.

[edit on 17-11-2009 by Laurauk]

reply posted on 18-11-2009 @ 03:12 AM by Nammu

reply to post by william76

William, i couldn't agree more! We are going round in circles which is frequently the way these things end up. You're a man with his head in the right place and there's no denying that, even if our views differ on certain subjects.

One thing i truely wish for is for all groups of all people to get together and fight against the true problem, which is the people at the top of the pyramid dividing us to conquer us.

If only the people of this country would realise this rather than arguing amongst themselves! What power we would have!

reply posted on 18-11-2009 @ 03:18 AM by Nammu

reply to post by Laurauk

Hi Laura. I agree. I'm against both sides too and i'm not affiliated with any group. The fascist left movement is as bad as the fascist right and both are taking off right now.

I just marched against racism. That's a cause worth marching for.

reply posted on 18-11-2009 @ 03:24 AM by Haydn_17

The SDL is a brother group to the EDL, they dont have many members, the EDL are on 8100 about, and the SDL just about 100 or so..

With any group your going to attract trouble makers, the EDL do not accept any racists, or NAZI saluts, you simply cant judge an entire group by the actions of a few people..

Islamic extremism is something we should be worrying about..

All i have seen of the UAF are scruffy students just wanting to protest something, everytime they turn up with "Smash the BNP banners" Even though its EDL not BNP, and even the BNP say they are not with us.

reply posted on 18-11-2009 @ 03:54 AM by Nammu

reply to post by Haydn_17

Islamic extremism is something we should be worrying about..

Yes it is. So what are the EDL doing to tackle it?

All i have seen of the UAF are scruffy students just wanting to protest something, everytime they turn up with "Smash the BNP banners" Even though its EDL not BNP, and even the BNP say they are not with us.

The UAF were definitely in the minority in this protest. I'm definitely not a fan of the UAF or the 'smash the BNP banners'. That's kind of like fighting fascism with fascism. I believe the link comes from the fact the some EDL members have been found to be also BNP members, but don't quote me on that. However, the whole group shouldn't be labelled BNP because of this, cause this is untrue. Personally, i think the EDL's roots is more United British Alliance, March for England and Casuals United combined.

reply posted on 18-11-2009 @ 03:59 AM by woodwardjnr