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America Bombed Her own Ships?....Pearl Harbour Revisited

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posted on Nov, 16 2009 @ 11:21 AM
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reply to post by seagull
 


Lol, I love to study wars, and the politics behind them, you can always see the mindset of the persons in charge of starting them if you study them and their words. Thanks for the oil depot I completely forgot about that.-) So much went on during that time it’s hard to forget.

Now as to what I mentioned earlier, let’s take a look at the lead up to 9-11 and the war in Iraq.

in 1998 Saddam kicked out UN weapons inspectors, he knew Bill Clinton was not going to do anything but bomb him. We also knew Saddams Army was ineffective and feared the Might of the American Army. ( which is still very small, but technological superior to any army in the world)

Fast forward to King George and his election (or appointment, Florida) Prior to the elections anyone remember his tough stance on Saddam saying he would use the American Military to force weapons inspectors? (hold on to that)

After the Election Bush had a very very hard time getting his appointments into place( cabinets and such even though the Repubs had a majority) Anyone recall the story headlines pre 9-11? Chandra Levy?

In the back ground bush was beating the drums of war against Iraq, and the WMDs, at this time the Intel agencies knew of an immenit attack on America, but the Intel was iffy. next thing you know 9-11 happens.

Bush and Co take there dear sweet time going to afghan, and when they get there they allowed the Northern Alliance to let Bin Laden slip through at Tora Bora, (SF soldiers I served with state that Bin Laden was in Tora Bora the NA, and CIA knew where he was there but allowed for a 48 HRS cease fire, which allowed them to slip through the hasty positions set up.

Now can anyone tell me why we did not deploy the entire 82nd, 101st, and other light infantry units to afgan? The main prize was not bin laden, but Saddam. Hence why we found him 9 months after the fall of Iraq, compared to the still hunting for bin laden almost 9 years later... Very Fishy. There’s more to this, and I am looking into it.




posted on Nov, 16 2009 @ 11:30 AM
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reply to post by poedxsoldiervet
 


There's always more to the story then what we're told... Always. I've always found that a little odd, as well. We can find Saddam fairly quickly, Iraq is, after all, a fairly large place..., yet we can't find a really tall, really sick Saudi? Odd. Maybe not nefarious, but most assuredly, odd.

Isn't it amazing the odd ways in which history repeats itself? Time and time again...

It's easy to see where some would see conspiracy where there might actually be none...but it sure looks that way. But that's why we have to look at issues from as many angles as possible, especially behind what curtains may indeed exist...

Hmmm...

We seem to have taken over the thread...



posted on Nov, 16 2009 @ 12:06 PM
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reply to post by KRISKALI777
 


I too often wondered about Pearl Harbor... especially since it was only supposed to be classified for 100 years, then recently I remember hearing that they extended the time.

Even my college history teacher said he hoped he lived to the day when we would finally have disclosure.

The question is, if the US really had no idea about the strike on Pearl Harbor, why would it even be classified in the first place?



posted on Nov, 16 2009 @ 12:10 PM
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Great Thread OP. I would like to make a point against the second post in the thread by Dark Ghost. Where he/she says well TPTB that concoct these false flags attacks may not be American, so it's not really an "American" false flag attack, [paraphrased].

Well I'd argue that whichever country sponsors these "False Flag attacks , are the ones obviously responsible, whether they use people of whatever race/creed/religion is of no real importance. Just because a Nation can pay say a bunch of Muslims or Islamics to crash planes into towers, while turning thier head, still makes it that nations act of a false flag attack on itself, either way you slice it.

You just have to follow the money trail "usually, or the oil trail, or the arms trail or what have you,. and see who is benefiting. It's obvious that nefarious groups WITHIN the US government benefited "greatly" from 9/11.

Alot of problems were solved, alot of money was made, alot of missing money was covered for, acts signed, backing for military invasions by the people was won over, allowing our military to raid oil fields in Iraq ect,ect.

I'm not saying it's as clear cut as this as I'm sure some of our "brother" nations were obviously involved in this, and have done thier own share of false flag subway bombings *wink wink*. Who knows how large a hand our allies played in this game.

The shame of Pearl Harbor, and the other events mentioned before it, is you have 40-60 years of History books saying THIS is how it happened to go up against. Although I believe History books from now and forward will always have an asterix when it comes to the events of 9/11. That asterix being that a large number of Americans believe 9/11 was a false Flag attack.

If we had better media and real time sattelite/camera coverage back in the day of Pearl Harbor, we may see a similiar asterix next to the Events of Pearl Harbor in Most U.S. History books.

If anyone has Children of the age of 12-15, I'm sure you know they come home with conspiracy theory stuff all the time they are studying in school. It's at least a step in the right direction. I always took history in school as Gospel, as what I was reading is exactly how things occured. Alot of it had to do with my dissinterest in History back then though, and childish naitivity.

Anyway, things are getting harder to cover up these days, cameras are all around. except in a one square mile radius around the pentagon


[edit on 16-11-2009 by Nola213]



posted on Nov, 16 2009 @ 12:12 PM
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reply to post by WhiteDevil013
 


Disclosure of what? 100 years of secrecy involving Pearl Harbor? First I've ever heard of it...

Point me in the right direction? I'd really like to see/read this for myself...



posted on Nov, 16 2009 @ 12:13 PM
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reply to post by seagull
 

Your statement "As bad as it was, Pearl Harbour was a blessing in disguise."
makes my blood boil.
U.S casualties: 2403 dead, 1178 wounded
Apparently your blood runs cold.



posted on Nov, 16 2009 @ 12:20 PM
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reply to post by xizd1
 


A blessing in disguise. Those casualties as opposed to, oh say, several thousands more when those ships were fully manned, and out to sea when the torpedoes and bombs sink them...

Sorry your blood boiled. Just for the sake of defending my blood...my father lost two cousins aboard Arizona that day. One was recovered, the other to the best of our knowledge is still aboard her.

Cold blooded? Hardly. I was in no way disparaging of those men who died, nor disregarding of them...

[edit on 11/16/2009 by seagull]



posted on Nov, 16 2009 @ 12:29 PM
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Originally posted by OceanBeing
A close friend of mine had told me a story backing up what your grandfather stated. A friend of his was in California working as a reporter. A month prior to the bombing he was asked to go to Hawaii for a big story but was not told what it was.


This sounds like a tale that gets stretched a bit more each time it is told. Why on earth would a newspaper pay a reporter airfare and a month of hotel charges to sit in Hawaii and just wait for something to happen? If those are the kind of gigs that are available, I need to change professions.



posted on Nov, 16 2009 @ 12:33 PM
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reply to post by seagull
 

There is no way you could know what would or could have happened, pure speculation on your part. No number of casualties is acceptable. That sort of mind set is barbaric. Just my opinion which counts for squat. Not hatin' on you. We, myself included, have been brain-washed to where human life holds little value and we can speak of acceptable losses. All life is precious. As I read your post I agreed, then I thought of what the deeper insinuations were and was really disgusted at myself more that you. I just lashed out at you in defense to my own shortcomings. No hard feelings to you at all, and I apologize for my outburst, it was misdirected.



posted on Nov, 16 2009 @ 12:36 PM
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War as Von Clausewitz says truly is politics by another means. The problem of course is that politicians know that they aren’t going to actually fight in the war themselves or pay for it financially themselves but that we the people have to.

So it’s all about finding that politically acceptable thing that plays on the people’s emotions so they can be manipulated towards risking life and limb, and part with their hard earned money to pay for and finance it all.

An Anglo/American oil embargo to punish an aggressively expanding Japan put it on a collision course with us politically in for it to realize its dreams of expansion and conquest in Asia and the Pacific Islands.

The History books do a good job at covering up many of the deceptions and government manipulations used in getting America involved in the late and final stages of World War I. Yet they did come out after the war and that’s why the Versailles Treaty and the League of Nations was never ratified or joined by us after the war.

Two decades later the sting and cost of European betrayals couldn’t be hidden in the history books by those who had lived through them and paid the price for them.

American wanted nothing to do with another major European and World War though some of our leading politicians and industrialists were anxious to join the fray in large part to end the economic stagnation and high unemployment that like today no number of government programs or throwing money at it could completely or fully cure.

So when intelligence chatter picked up news of a possible attack by Japan on the Hawaiian Islands the Commander in Chief chose to do nothing to prevent it from happening. In part it would have required a declaration of war that the people didn’t want to order out the fleet and meet the Japanese head on.

Had Roosevelt ordered a higher state of alert and readiness and increased patrols by air and sea and discovered the Japanese fleet’s position before it’s attack it likely would have called off the attack and the pretext for officially declaring war and entering World War II would have been lost.

Our governments and the bankers and industrialists who they are beholden to play deadly games for huge stakes and it can cost you your life believing them, and trusting them.

It’s important to remember what really did happen back then because it truly is very similar to the conditions that exist in the world today. It is the people who lived through those times and events who know what happened far better than what we are told decades upon decades later in the sanitized and politicized history books.

That is what truly gives rise to the saying: Mind your elders!



posted on Nov, 16 2009 @ 12:42 PM
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reply to post by xizd1
 


Not at all. We all, myself included (read my reply to you, as an example), can do that.

Of course any casualties are too many. On that we are in total agreement. But when your choices are bad and badder, or even baddest, you take the least bad you can get... ...and on that day, the least of the bad, was just the way it happened...with the ships lightly manned, and alot of the servicemen away on weekend leave.

It sounds cold, but it really isn't. ...and I most assuredly wouldn't have, and didn't, mean for it to sound that way.

No offense taken, and my own apologies for any that I may have given.



posted on Nov, 16 2009 @ 12:56 PM
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I think it is much more plausible to blame this (as well as other "pearl harbors" such at Vietnam and 9/11) on the incompetence of a bloated government.

Most of these things were foreseeable and EASILY prevented, but our bloated government is full (and always has been) with incompetent, ignorant fools.

If you can't do, teach. And if you can't teach get a job with the government.



posted on Nov, 16 2009 @ 02:23 PM
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reply to post by spellbound
 


Deception makes the World go round, and makes a central bank very rich. Funding both sides is the game, controlling the world is its primary goal.

Look no farther than the fat British financiers and revenue taxers.

It helps when you have a major Rockefeller and a Kissinger lobbying for "Globalism" constantly!

If you are not awake and can't see that obvious truth by now, well then, you are a slave already.



posted on Nov, 16 2009 @ 02:28 PM
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reply to post by poedxsoldiervet
 


I disagree with that.Even if the United States lost three or four aircraft carriers at pearl harbour they would have rebuilt within two years.The might of the United States construction factories would have rebuilt up to three new aircraft carriers within two years.Even if the japenese had invaded the west coast of the United States in 1941 the United States would still have helped to win the war.The japenese supply lines from japan would be too over streatched and of course in the following years the United States constructed better weapons and equipment to fight the war.Even if the war did turn against the allies ,they had the atomic bomb first.That would have saved the day.



posted on Nov, 16 2009 @ 02:30 PM
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Originally posted by KRISKALI777
O.K then; would it be safe to say then that individuals enlisted within the 'American' military, where American?
I am not really sure what problem you have with this statement?
Is it because I refer to America as a female entity?
Whether you have a problem with this assumption; which I have provided cross-reference, or whether you find this an insult to service people (then please see my conclusive comment!).
I am sure it will be no problem in giving you more resources from 'academics' spheres (if this is what you rely upon).
I will reiterate my point; service people mean well, but are duped by their Govts. Some do it as an extreme job; nothing more. Either way, the living service people have my utmost respect- the fallen 'LEST WE FORGET'!!!!
We all see the lie everyday on news broadcasts and various media; some of us live with the fact we have lost loved ones to the lie.

Maybe I should have said America ALLOWED her own ships to be bombed; a bit like letting your baby play on a busy road.

[edit on 11/16/2009 by KRISKALI777]


I am sorry to hear that you have lost loved ones in these events. No offence, but the analogy you gave between these events and that of a parent that lets their child play on a busy road is very poor.

Perhaps I can better word what I was trying to say before as follows:

A small faction of Elites that do not have the USA or her citizen's interests at heart have done things in her name for greed and power. This has come at the cost of her reputation in the international community.

Lumping together this small faction with average American citizens as if they are in agreement and representative of America as a whole is misleading and opportunistic.

[edit on 16/11/2009 by Dark Ghost]



posted on Nov, 16 2009 @ 02:37 PM
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huggs everyone,,,,


i am getting tired of these threads like this!!!

why not make a thread on stalin/russia did the same thing in a way???

I think theres a covert operation going on at ATS!!!

On anti America BS....!!!!!!!!

I think we have a bunch of chinese/N koreans and muslims and child idiots here who are doing this!!!

I know theres a lot of wrongs in life/history and war,,,and things were politically different at the time,,,


I am tired of 911/2012/fake moon landing and how america is so evil!!!

those who make these threads should be sucking a baby pacifier!!!!



huggs to the US!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!



posted on Nov, 16 2009 @ 02:41 PM
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reply to post by Vitchilo
 


the british did the same attack to the italian fleet in 1940 using the carriers ark royal and invincible. i sadly agree that he u.s. navy had to have known that such an attack could actually happen.



posted on Nov, 16 2009 @ 02:46 PM
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Originally posted by amyfriend
huggs everyone,,,,


i am getting tired of these threads like this!!!

why not make a thread on stalin/russia did the same thing in a way???

I think theres a covert operation going on at ATS!!!

On anti America BS....!!!!!!!!

I think we have a bunch of chinese/N koreans and muslims and child idiots here who are doing this!!!

I know theres a lot of wrongs in life/history and war,,,and things were politically different at the time,,,


I am tired of 911/2012/fake moon landing and how america is so evil!!!

those who make these threads should be sucking a baby pacifier!!!!



huggs to the US!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


I think it's the op's attempt to reverse engineer American History.
He probably believes in the Towers Conspiracy, and yet, there's that itchy trouble about how American banded together after Pearl Harbor, so he must take a hammer to history to bang it out to fit his rationale.
I'm starting to believe that rationalization is the Original Sin.



posted on Nov, 16 2009 @ 02:54 PM
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My father was a WWII vet and there are several things he told me about WWII:

1. Patton was assassinated by Amercian leadership for wanting to obliterate Russia.

2. Pearl Harbor was an inside job and there were Japanese officials inside the White House when it actually happened.



posted on Nov, 16 2009 @ 03:14 PM
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First, let me admit I don't know much about covert ops or false flag scenarios or even military operations in general. Just want to throw something out there.

One would think that if this was a false flag the government would have chosen a lesser target? Yes? No? We lost almost 200 military vessels in that attack including warships and fighter planes. Not a wise thing to do if you're planning to go into the biggest war of all time?

Just thinking here. Maybe 200 military vessels was a drop in the bucket, though. I'm pretty ignorant on these types of things. Obviously the allies won the war but I just looked it up to be sure and one of the reasons given that inspired the Japanese to bomb Pearl Harbor was that they believed it would cripple us military-wise and prevent our entering the war. That leads me to feel it definitely was such a dramatic loss that the U.S. most likely would not have let it go down, even as a means to feel vindicated to go to war, due to the risk?

Sorry if I'm way out in left field.



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