Will my country ever cease its racism against our indigenous people?, page 6

posted on Nov, 17 2009 @ 02:30 AM

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Britain was the biggest oppressor of indigenous people.

They oppressed the people of Australia, NZ, India, Canada, the US etc.

The irony is that Britain is now suffering problems caused by its lenient immigration policy. What goes round, comes round.

And this boy would never have been treated like this if he was not Aboriginal.

ivycutler

posted on Nov, 17 2009 @ 03:14 AM

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I love the irony of how an Australian Government official can imprison a child over a 70c chocolate without ever having to prove his or her legal jurisdiction to do so. If people challenged this more often it would become more widely known that the Australian Government is in fact unlawfully occupying the land mass know as Australia. And this is according to their own laws.

So whatever you are, if you live in Australia, don't accept that the 'government' has any right to enforce any law over you, because until they justify their occupation of the island according to international law they have no legal soveriegnty to police any law.

It frustrates me sometimes how much attention is paid to illegal occupations in other parts of the world where this one slips under the radar as it has done so for so long.

I hope the wee boy is ok.

mazzroth

posted on Nov, 17 2009 @ 03:24 AM

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This is the problem, things have happened in the past that were mistakes in Government policy such as the law taking half caste children from their black parents in the 50's and 60's. The pure Australian Aborigine is a beautiful race of people, gentle caring and independent of the Government for 50 000+ years and were very very primitive in development of technologies.

The Half Caste Aborigine was assimilated into the white society due to the Government of the day's wisdom and through forcibly removing children from their carers. You cannot do this with out repercussions and reverberations for generations to come within the community that formed because of the Government policy. Aboriginals were not allowed to vote and hence were designated by Government Law to be sub human and not worthy of the same rights as whites.

This kind of ideology has lasting effects on how whites treat blacks and vice verca but the crux of the matter is Politicians and social engineers decided this path that society has gone down in Australia. To rectify their wrongs future Governments now have made the situation even worse by throwing vast amounts of money at it and turned the once independent Aborigine into a basket welfare case where they survive on handouts and "sit down money" which any parent can tell you is not a good thing to do if you want "a child" to grow up normal ( Analogy, not a racist derogatory statement ok ) or in this case foster pride, independence and prosperity.

In essence blame the Governments and not the citizens of this great country as we have been socially engineered down this path and really were on a hiding to nothing to be able to change it or stop it.

Chadwickus

posted on Nov, 17 2009 @ 03:26 AM

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reply to post by zazzafrazz

Local news here says charges are dropped.

Common sense prevailed it seems

spellbound

posted on Nov, 17 2009 @ 03:36 AM

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reply to post by Chadwickus

Good - but this case should still be investigated. It was a shameful abuse of a child.

Dark Ghost

posted on Nov, 17 2009 @ 03:52 AM

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Originally posted by OzWeatherman

Racism is the belief that race is the primary determinant of human traits and capacities and that racial differences produce an inherent superiority of a particular race

We live in a society where it is politically acceptable to maintain the following ideas and openly state them in public:
- "Black people are better runners than white people."
- "Black people are better basketball players that white people."
- "Black people are better dancers than white people and generally have better rhythm."
- "Black people are better Blues and Jazz musicians than white people."

These above ideas are not necessarily expressed as literal statements, but they have become generally accepted notions in the West.

Turn the tables and it suddenly becomes racism.
- "White kids score better in End Of Year school exams than black kids" = RACISM.
- "White people are more successful in the field of economics than black people." = RACISM.
- "White people are better at keeping long-term jobs than black people." = RACISM.

This is why I find the example you gave to be problematic.

[edit on 17/11/2009 by Dark Ghost]

virricocha

posted on Nov, 17 2009 @ 03:59 AM

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OP,
I am sure this is not a sweet little kid we are talking about. Have you ever dealt with some of these "street rats" as I call them (aboriginal or not)? Young & dangerous and will stick you just to impress their running mates who are usually mid to late teens.

I have a public confession to make that may be illustrative of SOME of the reasons behind the obviously disproportionate intolerance & prosecution of Aboriginals engaged in anti social behavior (if we discount the admittedly high levels of out & out redneck racism for a moment).

I am a very open minded and compassionate individual with a culturally & racially diverse family. I have always been VERY pro indigenous rights on a political and philosophical level for obvious reasons.

HOWEVER, my personal experiences over the last 15 years have colored my view of indigenous culture and individuals to an extent that I find personally troubling.

I have run market stalls weekly for the last 15 years at Glebe in inner city Sydney which is a wierd mix of Uni students, gay/lesbian/boho/intelligentsia types & Government housing welfare families, the majority of which are Aboriginal.

There are tons of unsupervised kids roaming the streets at all hours whose demeanor and behavior in the majority of cases is nothing short of terrifying (and I am no pushover).

They are extremely predatory & aggressive. One has only to observe them closely to realize that they are ALWAYS looking for something to break, steal or vandalize, or someone to harm for kicks and to add to their street cred.
In short, they are out of control.

Over just the last year, I have personally witnessed young Aboriginal kids from about 9 to 17 do the following:
1/ Sneak up behind a young Asian woman and set her hair alight with a cigarette lighter.
2/ Punch an African immigrant woman in the face after calling her "a 'n-word' slut" for not handing over money for cigarettes.
3/ An Ice addled couple abandon their tiny baby in it's pram (on a slight hill - only caught by a bystander) to jump the fence into the markets to violently attack 3 teenage "ethnic girls (Lebanese)" who got into a slanging match with them after the Iceheads caught their eye and challenged them with "what you fukin' looking at wog sluts".
4/ Watched pre-teens play in the street throwing empty large alcohol bottles at each other and laughing as one smashed and seriously injured an innocent passer-by.
5/ Daily demanding of money in a threatening and non-negotiable way from strangers.
6/ Bag snatching & daylight smashing of car windows to steal bags etc etc .
And the list goes on & on & on & on.

Of course this kind of behavior is in no way confined to Aboriginal youth. I'm sure we are all smart enough to see this as symptomatic of all socially disadvantaged "underclasses" worldwide. The faces & places vary but the ugliness is always the same.

Which brings me to my inner conflict.
My outlook is that good people are good no matter what the exterior differences & should be treated with love and respect whilst thugs, rednecks etc can all rot in hell.

I have always cringed with embarrassment when (predominantly country) people disparage Aboriginals as "coons", Boongs" etc etc & go on racist rants about how the "Abos are all crims and good for nothing welfare dependant wife beaters" etc.

However my weekly negative interactions with the Aboriginal youth of my country has impacted me so greatly that I now harbor deep seated resentment towards most Aboriginal people despite my better nature. I have come to call it Experiential Racism.

We at the market are a super diverse group, a "rainbow mini-nation" if you will yet one group circles us likes wolves in for the kill. This is NOT uncommon.

Yes, Aboriginal people have been treated abominably and deserve our understanding but INDIVIDUALS can truly color even the most magnanimous of views through their hideous behavior & awakening troubling base instincts in us all.

Sparkly_Eyed777

posted on Nov, 17 2009 @ 04:33 AM

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Hi zazzafrazz, I agree with you, it doesn't seem right to jail a 12 year old child for what he did. He wasn't even the one who stole the Freddo. If the police are worried that he's going to become a criminal later, why don't they ask his parents to get him involved with some community activity or something? Like youth group or sports or just generally helping out in the community. I think if people feel like they belong or feel needed by helping others out, they'd become better people.

It sucks because there's a lot of things wrong with the justice system and all that. Just earlier this year an Indigenous man died while being transported in a prison van here in Western Australia.

www.thetransitlounge.com.au...

In March of this year, the Coronial Court in Kalgoorlie heard evidence that Mr Ward, a 46 year old Warburton resident, died of heatstroke in custody after he was arrested for allegedly drink-driving. Mr Ward was a well-known and respected local resident. He was arrested for a traffic offence — this doesn’t make him a high security risk. But, having been denied bail, he was sent by private contractor Global Solutions Limited (GSL) from Laverton to Kalgoorlie, to be held in custody.

For four hours he was locked in the back of the van with no air-conditioning. The air-conditioning was working in the front of the van, where the GSL officers travelled in comfort, but was not working in the back of the van, where Mr Ward was being slowly cooked alive. The trip was over 370 kilometres on a day when the temperature outside was 42 degrees. It would have been much hotter in Mr Ward’s unventilated, un-air-conditioned compartment. In fact, a chemist who assisted in a re-enactment of the incident in similar conditions told the Coronial Court that the air temperature in the back of the van reached 50.4C. He also told the court the surface temperature of the metal floor in the back peaked at 56.6C during the re-enactment.

More info on Mr Ward - en.wikipedia.org...

This story was in the papers a lot where I live, and it was so horrible to read about. Just wondering, did anyone else hear about this?

Edit - by the way, I'm an Indigenous Australian

[edit on 17/11/2009 by Sparkly_Eyed777]

[edit on 17/11/2009 by Sparkly_Eyed777]

virricocha

posted on Nov, 17 2009 @ 04:47 AM

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It sucks because there's a lot of things wrong with the justice system and all that. Just earlier this year an Indigenous man died while being transported in a prison van here in Western Australia.

www.thetransitlounge.com.au...

In March of this year, the Coronial Court in Kalgoorlie heard evidence that Mr Ward, a 46 year old Warburton resident, died of heatstroke in custody after he was arrested for allegedly drink-driving. Mr Ward was a well-known and respected local resident. He was arrested for a traffic offence — this doesn’t make him a high security risk. But, having been denied bail, he was sent by private contractor Global Solutions Limited (GSL) from Laverton to Kalgoorlie, to be held in custody.

For four hours he was locked in the back of the van with no air-conditioning. The air-conditioning was working in the front of the van, where the GSL officers travelled in comfort, but was not working in the back of the van, where Mr Ward was being slowly cooked alive. The trip was over 370 kilometres on a day when the temperature outside was 42 degrees. It would have been much hotter in Mr Ward’s unventilated, un-air-conditioned compartment. In fact, a chemist who assisted in a re-enactment of the incident in similar conditions told the Coronial Court that the air temperature in the back of the van reached 50.4C. He also told the court the surface temperature of the metal floor in the back peaked at 56.6C during the re-enactment.

This story was in the papers a lot where I live, and it was so horrible to read about. Just wondering, did anyone else hear about this?

[edit on 17/11/2009 by Sparkly_Eyed777]

SE777,
Well covered here in Oz as you know. AN ABSOLUTE FREAKING DISGRACE! Hope they get the book thrown at them (and hit with it a lot too).

Sparkly_Eyed777

posted on Nov, 17 2009 @ 05:03 AM
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reply to post by virricocha

Yeah I hope so too!

I can't imagine how anyone could let that happen unless they honestly didn't care.

Sparkly_Eyed777

posted on Nov, 17 2009 @ 05:06 AM
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reply to post by Caleb.K

Originally posted by Caleb.K
OMFG are you serious?? How much more can a country do to say sorry? We have publicly apologised, given free healthcare, free education, free housing, financial incentive to start a business and money every week for food and other expenses!!!

If you think the government has given so much to Indigenous people, you should know that sometimes the funding given for such important things like health care, education etc. isn't as much as it's said to be.

www.nit.com.au...

That report was delivered in April 2005. It was officially called 'The Opportunity Costs of the Status Quo in the Thamarrurr Region', but became known as the Taylor report, after one of its authors, Dr John Taylor (a researcher with the Centre for Aboriginal Economic Policy Research [CAEPR] at the Australian National University in Canberra).

In Aboriginal affairs, the Taylor report is famous.

In government circles, however, it's infamous. It was a devastating document.

What Dr Taylor and co-author Owen Stanley revealed - in addition to the housing statistics mentioned above - was that the Northern Territory and federal governments were underspending in key 'positive' areas like health, while over-spending in 'negative' areas like welfare and law enforcement.

In essence, the Taylor report showed that government spending in Wadeye was totally arse-about - it was a road map for how to destroy a community without really even trying.

But the most explosive revelation came in relation to education.

The Taylor report revealed that for every dollar spent on the education of a child anywhere in the Northern Territory, the NT government spent just 26 cents on a child in Wadeye.

That figure was later revised upwards after the NT government 'discovered' some extra money it had earlier over-looked.

Suspect though that discovery was, Dr Taylor agreed to rework the figures.

The final result came in at 47 cents. Not something to crow about either.

Sometimes the money doesn't get to where it should because of government.

It soon emerged that not only had OLSH Wadeye not been properly funded for 30 years, but of the education funding that was provided from the Commonwealth to the NT government for the direct benefit of OLSH Wadeye students, much of it appears to have gone astray.

What the Taylor report exposed was a system of education funding constructed by the NT government bureaucracy that appears to have been specifically created to skim off money ear-marked for Aboriginal schools.

And not just in Wadeye - the practice was going on all over the Territory.

It is a scam of staggering proportions. If you, the reader, tried to pull the same stunt against the Tax Office or Centrelink, you would earn yourself a prison term.

But the NT government has got away with it for decades.

In fact, believe it or not, it's still doing it today, two years after the practice was exposed.

You can look up 'The Opportunity Costs of the Status Quo in the Thamarrurr Region' for more info and read it as pdf or html.

Sparkly_Eyed777

posted on Nov, 17 2009 @ 06:15 AM
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reply to post by Edward 1st

Hi Edward 1st, I just want to say I really don't agree with your views because I believe we all have the capacity to become as intelligent as anyone else. But I believe that all depends on good health, community, education etc.

Originally posted by Edward 1st
Here’s my case. I’ll take a description of intellect from an online dictionary.

“capacity for thinking and acquiring knowledge, esp. of a high or complex order; mental capacity”

My point: all we can go off is what our intellects have achieved of a high or complex order. That should be a pretty good indicator of mental capacity. Just think of what white man has built – super computers, space crafts, harnessed electricity etc. Then you must think of his understanding of mathematics, biology, physics, medicine, architecture and literature. What about great minds such as, Leonardo Da Vinci, Nikola Tesla, Galileo, Plato, Aristotle. What has the aboriginal intellect achieved to prove itself equal to the white mans?

Okay, so these are the kinds of things Indigenous people would have to do to be considered on equal intelligence with white people, according to you, right? But you don't believe that we can?

I think that as time goes by and Indigenous people acquire better health, then things are going to change. The main thing I believe that is holding the Indigenous people back, is our health. I believe that once that gets better we'll be able to think better, because what you put into your body really has an affect on your capacity for intelligence. Exercise is another thing that affects your intelligence because it brings more oxygen to the brain so it can function better. So I really think that once that's taken care of and Indigenous people can look after themselves better and feel good, then generally, Indigenous intelligence should become a lot better and I believe will definitely be on the same level as white peoples'.

I really do believe it's about how people treat their bodies, their minds, and their souls. If all of these are healthy, then there isn't anything stopping anyone from being as an intelligent as they want to be. All that's required is the will to want to be better and the desire to learn. I truly believe anything is possible.

Oh, and another thing, support and someone to believe in you and help guide you is another thing that I believe is really needed. Kids need good role models! Even adults too actually. I really hope that in the future, as Australians we can all get along and support each other to make this a better country, no matter who we are. We all need to help each other out, even if we're not the ones that caused a situation. Maybe then so many Indigenous people won't be in jail and things like a kid being arrested over something as trivial as receiving stolen chocolate won't happen!

Kailassa

posted on Nov, 17 2009 @ 08:37 AM
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Originally posted by Edward 1st

Originally posted by OzWeatherman
Ok, so where are these "studies" that you have read then? You're basing an argument on personal opinion, so how am I childish when you are doing the exact same thing. Thats kind of hypocritical

Shuey, A.M. (1958/1966). The Testing Of Negro Intelligence. Lynchburg, Virginia: Bell Edition, New York: Social Science Press
. . . .

You make pronouncements on Australian Aboriginals on the basis of race, and use a study on American Negroes, written over fifty years ago, to support your point?

And that fine study was printed at Lynchburg?

Obviously too much admiration for another favourite racist author, David Duke, has coloured your outlook.

I know some pale-skins used to think there were three races, Caucasions, 'n-word's and slanty-eyes, but I thought humanity had grown up somewhat since those days of arrogant delusion.

As for your other recommended "expert", Levin . . .
he's wrapped up homophobic rants in academic blather, and written a book for his buddy Bush justifying the use of torture.
The poor man tried to get in with the white supremacists, but then found the only thing they hated worse than blacks was Jews.

Edward 1st

posted on Nov, 17 2009 @ 10:10 AM
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Originally posted by Kailassa

Originally posted by Edward 1st

Originally posted by OzWeatherman
Ok, so where are these "studies" that you have read then? You're basing an argument on personal opinion, so how am I childish when you are doing the exact same thing. Thats kind of hypocritical

Shuey, A.M. (1958/1966). The Testing Of Negro Intelligence. Lynchburg, Virginia: Bell Edition, New York: Social Science Press
. . . .

You make pronouncements on Australian Aboriginals on the basis of race, and use a study on American Negroes, written over fifty years ago, to support your point?

And that fine study was printed at Lynchburg?

Obviously too much admiration for another favourite racist author, David Duke, has coloured your outlook.

I know some pale-skins used to think there were three races, Caucasions, 'n-word's and slanty-eyes, but I thought humanity had grown up somewhat since those days of arrogant delusion.

As for your other recommended "expert", Levin . . .
he's wrapped up homophobic rants in academic blather, and written a book for his buddy Bush justifying the use of torture.
The poor man tried to get in with the white supremacists, but then found the only thing they hated worse than blacks was Jews.

Try debunking their work instead of attacking the person it holds more weight.

Edward 1st

posted on Nov, 17 2009 @ 10:33 AM
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Originally posted by Sparkly_Eyed777
reply to post by Edward 1st

Hi Edward 1st, I just want to say I really don't agree with your views because I believe we all have the capacity to become as intelligent as anyone else. But I believe that all depends on good health, community, education etc.

Originally posted by Edward 1st
Here’s my case. I’ll take a description of intellect from an online dictionary.

“capacity for thinking and acquiring knowledge, esp. of a high or complex order; mental capacity”

My point: all we can go off is what our intellects have achieved of a high or complex order. That should be a pretty good indicator of mental capacity. Just think of what white man has built – super computers, space crafts, harnessed electricity etc. Then you must think of his understanding of mathematics, biology, physics, medicine, architecture and literature. What about great minds such as, Leonardo Da Vinci, Nikola Tesla, Galileo, Plato, Aristotle. What has the aboriginal intellect achieved to prove itself equal to the white mans?

Okay, so these are the kinds of things Indigenous people would have to do to be considered on equal intelligence with white people, according to you, right? But you don't believe that we can?

I think that as time goes by and Indigenous people acquire better health, then things are going to change. The main thing I believe that is holding the Indigenous people back, is our health. I believe that once that gets better we'll be able to think better, because what you put into your body really has an affect on your capacity for intelligence. Exercise is another thing that affects your intelligence because it brings more oxygen to the brain so it can function better. So I really think that once that's taken care of and Indigenous people can look after themselves better and feel good, then generally, Indigenous intelligence should become a lot better and I believe will definitely be on the same level as white peoples'.

I really do believe it's about how people treat their bodies, their minds, and their souls. If all of these are healthy, then there isn't anything stopping anyone from being as an intelligent as they want to be. All that's required is the will to want to be better and the desire to learn. I truly believe anything is possible.

Oh, and another thing, support and someone to believe in you and help guide you is another thing that I believe is really needed. Kids need good role models! Even adults too actually. I really hope that in the future, as Australians we can all get along and support each other to make this a better country, no matter who we are. We all need to help each other out, even if we're not the ones that caused a situation. Maybe then so many Indigenous people won't be in jail and things like a kid being arrested over something as trivial as receiving stolen chocolate won't happen!

If the indigenous Australians were left alone for 500 years my guess would be they’d be no further advanced than they were 500 years ago. That’s only my guess. I think only time and natural selection could make them significantly more intelligent.

Yes better health and nutrition would play a part in putting them in a position to actually progress. You’re forgetting the part genetics play too.

How are the aborigines going to acquire better health?

I’m not a white supremacist, far from it. I just acknowledge each race for what it is and don’t care one bit for political correctness. I’ll say it how I see it. Jews are top of the IQ ladder for instance and I think whites are coming in third behind Asians if I remember correctly. This is hardly the view of a white supremacist that Jews are by IQ’s standards more intelligent than my white race. Races are all different whether people like to admit it or not. Thousands of years of natural selection could alter that IQ scale beyond recognition though.

Kailassa

posted on Nov, 17 2009 @ 10:46 AM
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Originally posted by Edward 1st

Try debunking their work instead of attacking the person it holds more weight.

Considering the lack of relevance I might as well waste my time debunking the East Lychenberg train timetable.

Edward 1st

posted on Nov, 17 2009 @ 10:48 AM
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Sparkley_Eyed777 I’ve just read what I posted back and feel I didn’t come across how I wanted to.

Top and bottom of it is; you make some good points and I agree with you on the most part.

the_grand_pooh-bah

posted on Nov, 17 2009 @ 03:18 PM
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As a middle aged white man all i can say in our defense is the other races were looking at us funny,they had it coming!

I hate what was described in the OP,but i have trouble believing a 12 old said what he was quoted as saying.a bit eloquent for a 12 year old and who would refer to oneself as a child at 12?

sure my race has taken control of most of the world,but if we didn't some one else would have.
so who do you want on top?
african dictators?
the chinese perhaps?
or maybe you'd prefer something with a more arabian flair?

and"the white business man"isn't racist,the only color they respect is green.
they'll stab a white man in the back just as fast as any other color.
just like your race will.whatever that may be.
hairless apes are hairless apes whatever the pigmentation of their skin may be.(Caucasian,negroid,mongoloid,whatever)
turn your back on them at your own peril.
adapt or die!

ok,just read new post saying the lawyers said it.took along time to post

[edit on 17-11-2009 by the_grand_pooh-bah]

Kailassa

posted on Nov, 17 2009 @ 03:55 PM
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Originally posted by the_grand_pooh-bah
. . .
I hate what was described in the OP,but i have trouble believing a 12 old said what he was quoted as saying.a bit eloquent for a 12 year old and who would refer to oneself as a child at 12?
. . . .

It was pointed out earlier in this thread that it was the boy's solicitor being quoted there.

Yes, it's a bit confusing.

ivycutler

posted on Nov, 17 2009 @ 07:12 PM
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reply to post by virricocha

Have you ever dealt with some of these "street rats" as I call them (aboriginal or not)? Young & dangerous and will stick you just to impress their running mates who are usually mid to late teens.

I deal with young people you lovingly refer to as 'street rats' on a daily basis (as my 'work'). I'm often threatened, spat at, abused etc. What you need to remember is that all children are learning how to live in what is essentially a crazy world. Some people are blessed with a childhood 'safety' and 'security' others find their own way. Remember that we are the adults in these troublesome situations.

I would rather hear what your solution is to this issue you are having in your market. Would you prefer the problem not to be there? What is it that is being done to deal with this menace to your vision of what life should be?

I don't in any way mean to critisise your views on what is occuring around you. I would much rather hear what you plan to do. How do you include this group of people into this rainbow society you have created. Or is the solution merely to have them gone?