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Will my country ever cease its racism against our indigenous people?

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posted on Nov, 16 2009 @ 05:39 PM
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Originally posted by zazzafrazz

I hope you read my longer post above to help educate you a little on them


A civilised society is your perception. I see nothing civlised about going to their land and raping and killing them. Colonialism is responsible for over 40 000 million deaths since the 17th century, how is this civilised?
Their society is complex, hunter gatherer does not mean basic in the least.
The destruction of the land is that civilised?
Dont mistake technology advances for 'civilising' a people.
For further reading on what constitues an advanced civlisation, and the "Wests" timeline for uncivilised attocities, I have shared thoughts here:
www.abovetopsecret.com...
www.abovetopsecret.com...

I would be pleased if you took the time to read that

Cheers Zazz



With bigger advancements come bigger atrocities I’ve no arguments with that. Don’t you think aborigines have atrocities on their own scale? White people are technologically and intellectually more advanced than the aborigines.

Every person alive today has ancestors who have survived millennia. The reason aboriginal’s specific ways have survived so long is their isolation, simple as that.




posted on Nov, 16 2009 @ 05:43 PM
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reply to post by Edward 1st
 


Isolation yes, not because they are on the bottom of a civilised ladder as you suggested.
Civilised societies are in the eye of the beholder who compares different to their own standard set.



posted on Nov, 16 2009 @ 05:45 PM
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Originally posted by Edward 1st
With bigger advancements come bigger atrocities I’ve no arguments with that. Don’t you think aborigines have atrocities on their own scale? White people are technologically and intellectually more advanced than the aborigines.


Whaaaaat? You think that they arent as intelligent as white people? Thats just plain ignorant....actually it also suggests a lack of education. I dont understand why you would claim that intellect differs depending on race



Every person alive today has ancestors who have survived millennia. The reason aboriginal’s specific ways have survived so long is their isolation, simple as that.


No, they also survived as they adapted to living off this harsh environment. Sure they were isolated longer than most other non-developed countries at the time....but they survived because back then, they were forced to integrate into white mans society



posted on Nov, 16 2009 @ 06:06 PM
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Originally posted by OzWeatherman
Whaaaaat? You think that they arent as intelligent as white people? Thats just plain ignorant....actually it also suggests a lack of education. I dont understand why you would claim that intellect differs depending on race


No it’s not plain ignorant, it’s a fact that most people like to/are forced to ignore and gloss over, which just makes things worse. Are you telling me all races are equal? That is ignorant and shows a lack of education.



Originally posted by OzWeatherman
No, they also survived as they adapted to living off this harsh environment. Sure they were isolated longer than most other non-developed countries at the time....but they survived because back then, they were forced to integrate into white mans society


I’m not sure what you’re getting at with this? Whose ancestors haven’t survived harsh environments? I'm not sure what you meant by the last sentence?

[edit on 16-11-2009 by Edward 1st]



posted on Nov, 16 2009 @ 06:13 PM
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Originally posted by Edward 1st
No it’s not plain ignorant, it’s a fact that most people like to/are forced to ignore and gloss over, which just makes things worse. Are you telling me all races are equal? That is ignorant and shows a lack of eduction.


No, Im saying that intellect is not dependant on race....and unlike you I do consider anyone of a different race my equal. You obviosuly dont.

Do you even live in Australia?

Have you ever been close or friends with an aboriginal person?



I’m not sure what you’re getting at with this? Whose ancestors haven’t survived harsh environments? I'm not sure what you meant by the last sentence?


Last sentence, i guess you never done anything about Australian history huh. Aborginals were force to integrate into society. Their kids were taken from them and shoved into white peoples houses, and raised without their indigenous culture...thats what I mean by that last line.

Now I dont think its my fault that this happened (stupid government decided to say sorry), but I dont think that we should look over this either



posted on Nov, 16 2009 @ 06:30 PM
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Originally posted by OzWeatherman
No, Im saying that intellect is not dependant on race....and unlike you I do consider anyone of a different race my equal. You obviosuly dont.

Do you even live in Australia?

Have you ever been close or friends with an aboriginal person?




You’re mistaking treating races as equals and actually being physically and mentally equal. You obviously can’t differentiate between the two. Do I need to give you a list of differences between races that actually makes us different and not equal?

No I don’t live in Australia I’m from the UK but lived in Perth. I met a few aboriginals and worked with a half aboriginal. Can’t say I liked what I saw, and thought at the time that we’d made a mistake trying to integrate them into society. They should have just been moved on.

What are you trying to get at?



Originally posted by OzWeatherman

Last sentence, i guess you never done anything about Australian history huh. Aborginals were force to integrate into society. Their kids were taken from them and shoved into white peoples houses, and raised without their indigenous culture...thats what I mean by that last line.

Now I dont think its my fault that this happened (stupid government decided to say sorry), but I dont think that we should look over this either


Yes I know what happened. My partner is Australian and history is my favourite subject, but the way you structured that paragraph in response to mine and added that comment at the end had nothing to do with what I said.



posted on Nov, 16 2009 @ 06:36 PM
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Originally posted by Chadwickus
reply to post by zazzafrazz
 


Well now I'm confused, my understanding is ancestors and deceased family are never mentioned once they have died, that's why they put up the notice at the start of shows depicting images or speak of deceased aboriginals.


Hey Chaddy


Yes you are correct, but they become part of the living dreamtime.

So what happened to ancestors happens to them. The dreaming is never ending, ancestors do not disappear.
Cheers hun


In most stories of the Dreaming, the Ancestor spirits came to the earth in human form and as they moved through the land, they created the animals, plants, rocks and other forms of the land that we know today. They also created the relationships between groups and individuals to the land, the animals and other people. Once the ancestor spirits had created the world, they changed into trees, the stars, rocks, watering holes or other objects. These are the sacred places of Aboriginal culture and have special properties.

Because the ancestors did not disappear at the end of the Dreaming, but remained in these sacred sites, the Dreaming is never-ending, linking the past and the present, the people and the land. For Aboriginal people all that is sacred is in the land. Knowledge of sacred sites is learned through a process of initiation and gaining an understanding of Aboriginal law. It is, by definition, not public knowledge. This is why the existence of many sites might not be broadcast to the wider world unless they are threatened.

www.cultureandrecreation.gov.au...


[edit on 16-11-2009 by zazzafrazz]



posted on Nov, 16 2009 @ 06:42 PM
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Originally posted by alien
There are certainly - IMO - examples where over leniency is shown. A recent example of that is one of our Maori MPs...a Mr Hone Harawira...running off at the mouth a little bit too colourfully. I totally AGREE with my Non-Maori friends who say "Ya know, if one of us said what he said, we'd be hung drawn and quartered"


Ugh, the Maori Party are doing so much more harm than good by existing. Claiming to be representatives of an entire race is just insulting to all Maori.



posted on Nov, 16 2009 @ 06:54 PM
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Originally posted by Edward 1st

You’re mistaking treating races as equals and actually being physically and mentally equal. You obviously can’t differentiate between the two. Do I need to give you a list of differences between races that actually makes us different and not equal?


The differences arent the thing I was getting at. I was more concerned that your posts seem to indicate that you think that white people are better than people of other races. If this isnt the case, then thats fine



No I don’t live in Australia I’m from the UK but lived in Perth. I met a few aboriginals and worked with a half aboriginal. Can’t say I liked what I saw, and thought at the time that we’d made a mistake trying to integrate them into society. They should have just been moved on.

What are you trying to get at?


Originally Im from Perth too. Most of the true aboriginals arent in the cities these days. Go up to Broome, Fitzroy Crossing, Derby, Kunnunara, Turkey Creek, Tjukula etc

Until then you dont really know anything about what a real aboriginal is



Yes I know what happened. My partner is Australian and history is my favourite subject, but the way you structured that paragraph in response to mine and added that comment at the end had nothing to do with what I said.


Ok, what did you mean exactly....sorry if I misunderstood it

[edit on 16/11/2009 by OzWeatherman]



posted on Nov, 16 2009 @ 07:13 PM
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Originally posted by zazzafrazz

He said when arrested, he had been apprehended at school and imprisoned for several hours in a holding cell at the local police station. "The conditions in those cells are appalling and completely ill-equipped to hold young children," he said.


I know a LOT of twelve year olds.. I do not know any that would use the words "appalling" or "ill-equipped" especially in the same sentence.

If this article would make THAT kind of detail up, what else is fabricated?



posted on Nov, 16 2009 @ 07:17 PM
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reply to post by HankMcCoy
 


it was the lawyers words as per link. Not the child



posted on Nov, 16 2009 @ 07:22 PM
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Originally posted by zazzafrazz
reply to post by HankMcCoy
 


it was the lawyers words as per link. Not the child


Ah, you should break up the text I quoted. It paints a -very- different picture.



posted on Nov, 16 2009 @ 07:35 PM
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Originally posted by OzWeatherman


The differences arent the thing I was getting at. I was more concerned that your posts seem to indicate that you think that white people are better than people of other races. If this isnt the case, then thats fine


Quote me where I’m indicating I’m a white supremacist and prove it’s not just you wanting to paint me as a white supremacist to try and take the moral high ground.


Originally posted by OzWeatherman

Originally Im from Perth too. Most of the true aboriginals arent in the cities these days. Go up to Broome, Fitzroy Crossing, Derby, Kunnunara, Turkey Creek, Tjukula etc

Until then you dont really know anything about what a real aboriginal is



What has meeting a real bush aboriginal got to do with the points I’m making?


Originally posted by OzWeatherman


Ok, what did you mean exactly....sorry if I misunderstood it



I said the main reason aboriginal culture survived for so long was because of its isolation. Meaning if they’d have been mainland, more than likely they’d have been conquered at some point and changed/adopted customs or even wiped out. You telling me white men forced them to integrate into society is correct but not relevant to my point.



posted on Nov, 16 2009 @ 07:47 PM
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reply to post by zazzafrazz
 


Hi again ZAZZY,
let reiterate that I think locking a kid up over a Freddo is ridiculous. It was said this child was known to Police; do we have any evidence of what those past offences were?
Why would he even warrant police attention if there were not a broader picture here?

Just asking......

The other thing I note is that from this question we wade back into the familiar territory of racism. This seems to happen whenever subjects like this are raised.
Although this is a valid consideration; I don't believe it should be the convenient argument in every situation like this.



posted on Nov, 16 2009 @ 08:14 PM
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reply to post by KRISKALI777
 


Hey Kris


I don't think its an invalid arguement, the sad truth is, I dont think a white middle class 12 year old would have been incacerated for receiving a 70 cent chocolate, he's priors need to be treated differently.

Also people lable aboriginals drunk criminals, without focusing on their diplacement.

I know what your sayig, but in this case I called racism, other people are entitled to think it was about something else.

[edit on 16-11-2009 by zazzafrazz]



posted on Nov, 16 2009 @ 08:19 PM
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Originally posted by Edward 1st
Quote me where I’m indicating I’m a white supremacist and prove it’s not just you wanting to paint me as a white supremacist to try and take the moral high ground.


I didnt say you were....I was saying that your comments may come across or be interpreted as you are



What has meeting a real bush aboriginal got to do with the points I’m making?


Well becasue you are simply formulating an opinion that all aboriginals are like the ones you worked with in Perth, then you should go out bush and compare the ones out there. There is a huge difference between the city aborigines and the ones in the country......but unless you've been out there, you wouldnt know.



posted on Nov, 16 2009 @ 08:42 PM
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Explanation: To shed some historic light upon the title of the topic in isolation, I provide the following constitutional legal framework for scrutiny.

Australian Constitution

From Source....

"Chapter 1, Part 5 – Powers of the Parliament

Sections 51-60

Section 51 – Legislative powers of the Parliament

The Parliament shall, subject to this Constitution, have power to make laws for the peace, order, and good government of the Commonwealth with respect to:-

[EDITED to remove irrelevant information.]

(xxvi.) The people of any race, for whom it is deemed necessary to make special laws:"


Personal Disclosure: As long as the Federal Government of Australia retains this constitutional power and the citizens of Australia on a whole fail to rectify this by demanding a referendum on the matter, then the direct answer to the question posed by the threads title is "Not for the foreseeable future!"



posted on Nov, 16 2009 @ 09:02 PM
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Originally posted by OzWeatherman
I didnt say you were....I was saying that your comments may come across or be interpreted as you are


Well quote me where I could be interpreted.


Originally posted by OzWeatherman
Well becasue you are simply formulating an opinion that all aboriginals are like the ones you worked with in Perth, then you should go out bush and compare the ones out there. There is a huge difference between the city aborigines and the ones in the country......but unless you've been out there, you wouldnt know.


What have I said that needs me to have met a true aborigine from one of those towns?

We’re getting off point. You’re making an argument about me not meeting a true aborigine which I think is irrelevant again, and getting away from your main disagreement with me. I said White people were intellectually more advanced than aborigines and you disagreed. Here’s my case. I’ll take a description of intellect from an online dictionary.

“capacity for thinking and acquiring knowledge, esp. of a high or complex order; mental capacity”

My point: all we can go off is what our intellects have achieved of a high or complex order. That should be a pretty good indicator of mental capacity. Just think of what white man has built – super computers, space crafts, harnessed electricity etc. Then you must think of his understanding of mathematics, biology, physics, medicine, architecture and literature. What about great minds such as, Leonardo Da Vinci, Nikola Tesla, Galileo, Plato, Aristotle. What has the aboriginal intellect achieved to prove itself equal to the white mans?

Would you respond and then make a case for us being equal?


[edit on 16-11-2009 by Edward 1st]

[edit on 16-11-2009 by Edward 1st]



posted on Nov, 16 2009 @ 09:07 PM
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reply to post by Edward 1st
 





My point: all we can go off is what our intellects have achieved of a high or complex order. That should be a pretty good indicator of mental capacity. Just think of what white mans has built – super computers, space crafts, harnessed electricity etc. Then you must think of his understanding of mathematics, biology, physics, medicine, architecture and literature. What about great minds such as, Leonardo Da Vinci, Nikola Tesla, Galileo, Plato, Aristotle. What has the aboriginal intellect achieved to prove itself equal to the white mans?


and you are indeed going completely off topic. This is not about white superiority, please refrain. Your percpetion of how we dessimated the globe with out technology is a bizare way to think we are more advanced.
Written word does not euate to intellect.
There is no biological possibilty that white people are more intelligent. This is the last of this nonesence i want to see on this thread, please.



posted on Nov, 16 2009 @ 09:19 PM
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reply to post by zazzafrazz
 


I live right near an Indigenous Community and I can tell you that these kids have no RESPECT for anybody. They will even stand in the middle of the road, Putting themselves in danger, just to spit at your vehicle. Imagine the outcry if someone was to hit one of these kids with their vehicle?

I say good on the cops. It seems as though they have tried other ways in the past and it didn't work, maybe this just might. If it does, It might save a family from grieving over the death of a loved one caused by one of these little Monsters. And I Mean Little Monsters.

It's a damn shame that it takes the Judicial System to meter out discipline. Why is it not the parents doing it? Oh, I know why. They're at home, sitting in front of the telly smoking their pot or drinking their plonk.




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