'We...found their lungs are as black as charcoal."

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posted on Nov, 17 2009 @ 05:37 PM
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Originally posted by squiz


Case in point--- the very first vaccine, smallpox over 150 years ago is not the darling that we were led to believe eradicated smallpox.





They didn't understand much about the importance of a weakened innoculant back then. They tried to innoculate with an already virulent agent and instead of innoculating they were infecting.
Things got better when they started using the cowpox virus instesd of small pox virus. It gave some protection that allowed people to survive smallpox in larger numbers by giving some degree of resistance to a similar strain.

The problem with many vaccines is not the inocculatory virus in its self but the adjuncts that are used to contain it or a poor choice of innoculant to begin with.





[edit on 17-11-2009 by badgerprints]




posted on Nov, 17 2009 @ 05:42 PM
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Remember.....The more they say it's a flu the more we will think it is just a form of the flu......

They only found this in 2 bodies......did not report any more....

You would think ALL would have this...

Does not sound like nay flu symptoms...

therefore......

just a theory......

Maybe it's not a flu at all but something they are not telling us for many reasons...



posted on Nov, 17 2009 @ 05:49 PM
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Political, could be !!!

I found this in the Moscow times.




“There is a saying in Ukraine: the active idiot is better than the lazy philosopher. And it now looks like people will vote for Tymoshenko simply because she is taking action on this flu issue, which has completely dominated public discussion,” political analyst Volodymyr Tsybulko said. “No one much cares that Tymoshenko was the one who created the issue she is acting upon.” Tymoshenko’s spokeswoman declined to comment on allegations that her response to the outbreak has been politically motivated, but she has recently insisted that Ukraine is facing a real medical crisis. Regardless of the politics, health officials say political wrangling over the epidemic is causing public fears that are not justified by its scale. And that has led frightened citizens to buy up and hoard medications badly needed elsewhere.

www.themoscowtimes.com...



posted on Nov, 17 2009 @ 09:09 PM
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reply to post by badgerprints
 


No offense friend, but that is another one of the Lies.


When a cattle breeder named Benjamin Jesty supposedly found himself immune to smallpox after having contracted cowpox from his own cows, he decided to inoculate his entire family with cowpox lesions. This was in 1774. Such a procedure was well known to the populace, since the practice of inoculation with the actual smallpox virus had been popular in England since the 1740s, with often deadly results. Twenty years after Jesty and others experimented on themselves with cowpox inoculations, Edward Jenner, a notorious self-promoter, went a step further. He inoculated a child with cowpox and then injected the child with a deadly dose of smallpox. Luckily, the child did not die. This experiment led Jenner to publicize his theory of vaccination in 1796, which quickly became an accepted, and required, practice without any scientific experimentation or medical studies to prove the vaccine's effectiveness.

Despite the initial widespread popularity of vaccination, no one actually proved that the cowpox vaccine prevented smallpox, and many critics insisted that the vaccine did not work. Physicians were especially skeptical about the ability of cowpox to prevent smallpox



In fact the new cowpox vaccination often did transfer other contagious and deadly diseases to recipients, especially syphilis, leprosy, and tuberculosis.


www.hpakids.org...

I'll say it again vaccination creates disease.



[edit on 17-11-2009 by squiz]



posted on Nov, 17 2009 @ 10:10 PM
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reply to post by squiz
 


Your right bro... In the end...

Conspiracy or no, we have known for a long time now what we are doing is creating weaker immune systems and weaker people and stronger and stronger bugs...

The Vaccine by my theory MUST create stronger versions of a disease like flu because it's a disease that mutates rapidly...

I think vaccines really do work against some diseases that don't adapt quickly but not the FLU

If you vaccinate so many people against Flu... and the disease is going around and enters the body... of a Billion Virus a few will mutate against your immune systems response and your going to Rapidly increase the speed in which the Flu Becomes a Super Flu

Some diseases aren't right for Vaccination... The Common Cold and Flu are 2 of them...

They are creating a MONSTEROUS situation here... Polio might not shift gears so fast in the body and a pre generated immune response will work...

This just isn't right for the Flu... they are either idiots or Evil



[edit on 17-11-2009 by mopusvindictus]



posted on Nov, 17 2009 @ 10:24 PM
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Originally posted by mopusvindictus
... they are either idiots or Evil


The million dollar question amongst conspiracy theorists. Is humanity on the whole truly this dumb, or are we being mislead by wicked psychos?



posted on Nov, 17 2009 @ 10:28 PM
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reply to post by unityemissions
 


You have heard the phrase madd with power. I think madness is the word you are looking for.



posted on Nov, 18 2009 @ 04:12 AM
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reply to post by unityemissions
 


Thats an interesting Question.


I think we all are actually dumb, wicked psychos at some point of our lives. Some of us realise this and try to become better people most don't tho.

But all in all we only follow what we want no mater which wicked spycho or dumb, wicked psycho or good person is leading.

Izzy.



posted on Nov, 18 2009 @ 05:06 AM
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People need to put "vaccination" as it was back then into context.

The normal procedure was to take pus from the small pox eruptions of a sick or even dead victim, use a scalpel to make an incision into the person to be vaccinateds skin and place the pus into it.

This was a very crude method, had no capability to control the amount or state of the pathogen transferred to the patient and often transferred other diseases to the patient from the donor as well.

The people being vaccinated stood as much risk of being infected with a deadly dose of the disease as they did a weak one their immune system would overcome and thereafter develop an immune response to.

Modern vaccines are created in such a way as to strictly control the amount and state of pathogen and to be pure.

Because the virus samples to be used are often grown in egg embryos there is a possibility that people with egg allergies will suffer a reaction. This is the most common adverse reaction to vaccines. People with known allergies to eggs need to consult a Dr before being vaccinated.

[edit on 18-11-2009 by ecoparity]



posted on Nov, 18 2009 @ 06:25 AM
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I can post some more modern examples if you like. How about gardasil?

Try this video, anyone who thinks vaccinations are the pinnacle of modern medicine after watching this needs there head examined.
It's a fraud, has been since the cowpox fraud hundreds of years ago.
Small pox vaccination was presented as a landmark achievement.
This is what was touted by the WHO. It's a Lie, and they still lie.

The studies to support vaccination are done by the people making the vaccines and the bucks. WAKE UP!

If it's so wonderful, they wouldn't be paying up billions in compensation would they?

The autism epidemic, Sudden infant death syndrome and who knows what else. For God's sake and your childrens get a clue.

OR JUST TAKE YOUR DAMN VACCINE!

video.google.com.au...

Doubt the info? Look it up.



posted on Nov, 18 2009 @ 06:44 AM
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I agree that Gardasil is a bad vaccine, I've posted several times about it in various threads. The adverse reaction database contains a great many reports of horrible reactions to it.

Vaccines are useful within a narrow set of diseases. The drive to create all these new vaccines for every ill is a misuse of them and should be examined carefully.

I don't take the seasonal flu vaccines or any other for that matter and will only take the swine flu vaccine if the number of deaths in my country rises considerably.

The incidents of autism blamed on vaccines needs to be looked at very carefully. There is a lot of good evidence that the rise in autism is not linked to them - military children take more vaccines but have the same amount of autism, for example.

Theres a decent argument to be made that the rise in autism is actually due to improved abilities to diagnose it rather than an actual rise in incidents.

If people are going to take vaccines or give them to children they should demand the mercury free ones. I'd like to see the development of more "natural" alternatives without the various chemicals added to them.



posted on Nov, 18 2009 @ 07:16 AM
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Originally posted by ecoparity
Vaccines are useful within a narrow set of diseases. The drive to create all these new vaccines for every ill is a misuse of them and should be examined carefully.


Rather than argue the other points, I'll agree to this one. A very narrow range. But even those like measles vaccine (which appears to have success), have a disturbing past. And large outbreaks have still occurred in the vaccinated. Although children have been damaged and killed by the "useful ones" as well.

There's a lot more than just mercury to be concerned about.

I wouldn't mind seeing where those autism studies came from?
Ok, I'll argue this a little. With most of the cases that can be directly be related to mercury the children begin as healthy normal alert children until the bombardment of shots. The arguments you refer to is nothing but propaganda. Statistical rubbish.
There's absolutely no doubt about it.
Talk to the parents for the real story. Seriously man watch the video you'll be shocked. It covers this subject at length. I'ts not an easy watch. I shed a few tears.

Oh and yes absolutely, alternatives should be studied, hey Eco I'm impressed.
For the most part


Peace.

I just wanted to ask a question of my U.S friends, just how many shots does the average American child get? I'm hearing some incredible numbers being thrown around, kind of shocking.


[edit on 18-11-2009 by squiz]



posted on Nov, 18 2009 @ 08:26 AM
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The problem we have is that there is no incentive for anyone to study if mercury in vaccines is actually causing autism or another condition which mimics autism.

The pharma companies refused to make vaccines without immunity and our government here in the US did what it always does and bent over to give them complete immunity even against intentional acts.

The immunity grant needs to be very narrow and well defined and only cover the "extremely rare adverse reactions" they claimed required legal protection.

The alternative is to create a national production facility which will make vaccines free of preservatives and other chemicals which can be eliminated or replaced by safe alternatives. The pharma companies will use the cheapest method available to them rather than what's safest.

I'd prefer that even though it breaches the realm of socialism simply because I feel the drive for profits has destroyed the ability or motivation to produce the safest possible vaccines.

These newer vaccines being produced are not needed and are driven purely for profit. Gardasil is a band aid for behavior. You can avoid the disease by abstaining from unprotected sex or only have sex with partners who have been tested. Gardasil is a dangerous vaccine made to enable irresponsible sexual behavior, IMO. Rape would be the only exception and I don't think the statistics justify the means.

Then we have the brain chemistry alteration vaccines for smoking, drug addiction and so on. This is getting dangerously close to using pharmacology to create robotic people. We can expect future vaccines to eliminate "challenging authority" and being "conspiracy minded", IMO.

Regulations and market pressure work unless they are manipulated. The pharma companies have managed to unbalance the system with political lobbying and wide legal immunity. Until we address these issues people should watch carefully and treat vaccines as a last line of defense for true life and death situations. Treating them like aspirin for a headache is dangerous and irresponsible.



posted on Nov, 18 2009 @ 09:22 AM
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reply to post by ecoparity
 


Well once again I agree to most of that.

But it's a scientific fact that mercury causes neurological damage, it's well known. And when these babies are given several shots in one go, they then exceed the limit. It's a no brainer. And the still deny it t. It's a huge subject too big to discuss here. You cannot trust them, seriously. The evidence is overwhelming. PLEASE watch the video.

It's not just the preservatives, it's the fact that you are putting foreign DNA and RNA directly into the bloodstream bypassing the natural immune defenses. In the case of babies they take a developing immune system and bombard it with a cocktail of necrotic matter and toxins. Right into the veins. It's barbaric, crude science. Sure it's cleaner and slicker now but it's still the same archaic concept.
And the side effects still occurring.

I feel pretty strongly about it, but we agree on some points so
can we just agree to disagree on the others? It's a bit off track.

I guess my point with bringing vaccination subject up is that it's possible people are being setup for a "Double Blow" virus perhaps even triple.

As well as the ability for the virus to mutate when coming into contact with so many vaccinated hosts. Or new emerging diseases as a result, as shown in the past. This is scientifically possible perhaps even likely. Could even be happening right now.

I also fear for the Ukrainians when the perhaps forced medication begins.



posted on Nov, 18 2009 @ 09:58 AM
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My last off topic post, I promise.


The more I look into this stuff, the more I'm blown away with the enormity of the lie. I may have spoke to soon about the measles as well.

Check out the graphs at this site.
www.whale.to...



posted on Nov, 18 2009 @ 10:47 AM
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Originally posted by badgerprints
The black lung comes from massive cytokine production.

This is a laymans understanding of it but here goes.

The body, in an effort to protect its self, produces a massive amount of protective cells that literally attack the virus in the lungs but attack everyting else along with it by causing massive inflamation. The black part is dried and crusted blood after the lungs have lost their protective inner lining. This is due to unregulated defenses.

As I understand it, vitamin-d (which we naturally produce when we get enough sun) keeps this defensive reaction from being severe enough to kill the patient. It also helps to protect from disease.

A deficiency of vitamin d during winter months contributes to many of the illnesses that we suffer because of a lack the bodys exposure to sunlight.



Good post - I am not so sure regarding the vitamin D helping with inflammation - though it certainly is the primary vitamin that people should be using to boost their immune systems - sunlight is best!

There are three natural sources of anti-inflammatory that I have heard as useful in case of a cytokine storm - those are, in order of power - Turmeric (like from yellow curry), fish liver oil, and aspirin - aspirin should not be given to small children because it may create other risks.

Also - medical anti-inflamatories may be useful - but I hear turmeric is quite powerful.



posted on Nov, 18 2009 @ 10:58 AM
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It's starting to look like even the mild to mid severity cases of swine flu may leave long term effects. This is a subject that has been going around the medical community for a while now but is starting to hit the mainstream:

Patients left w/ perm disabilaties



According to the chief pulmonologist at the hospital in Lviv (Western Ukraine, NDT), Dr. Rudnitskaya, who suffered from pneumonia related to influenza A H1N1 may develop chronic lung disease, as the bronchial asthma, because it seems that the disease has caused irreversible organic changes in their lungs. Doctors, however, seem to be still struggling to explain how the phenomenon occurs.

"We're just beginning to study these patients, and we follow them closely, asking them to do regular blood tests and urine. The disease has caused irreversible changes in their lungs, "said the physician assistant department head of research infectious Andrusishin doctor, hospital, Ivano-Frankivsk (Western Ukraine, NDT). "They have great difficulty recovering from their weakened immune system, and there is a high risk they incur all sorts of other infections. Many children who are yet cured of the flu continue to have a temperature of 40 °. We also have three people in intensive care with an influenza syndrome meta-type "meningo-encephalitis (inflammation of the cerebral cortex, NDT). Members of our staff, who were hit by the virus, now suffering from myocarditis. "


Previous outbreaks in every country have left people with neurological, pulmonary, and cardiac issues. This virus is NOT like having a seasonal flu. Even if it doesn't kill you it is not a normal, human virus. This thing species hopped from swine so we're the first generation to deal with it.

The same type of lasting effects were seen in the survivors of the 1918 flu, by the way.



[edit on 18-11-2009 by ecoparity]



posted on Nov, 18 2009 @ 12:22 PM
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reply to post by ecoparity
 


Interesting that we already have a vaccine for Bacterial pneumonia, but now the swine flu causes long term problems with lungs? how about pneumonia from seasonal flu side effects, after all 55 thousand died from pneumonia without the help of the swine of seasonal flu in the nation every year.

I will be very worry about this call "new reports", they could be highly bias and paid by big pharma.

This thread has very good information about this type of propaganda,The Biotech Puppeteers

www.abovetopsecret.com...



posted on Nov, 18 2009 @ 12:54 PM
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The long term effects being seen a more than just "pneumonia". Please take the time to fully read things before dismissing them.

The Ukraine sequences have been released to the GISAID database. No press release from the WHO on them yet.

Virologists all over the World are rushing to perform analysis on them right now.



posted on Nov, 18 2009 @ 01:14 PM
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reply to post by ecoparity
 


I am not going to speculate what is going to the Ukraine but by past history of the region and diseases, plagues comes to mind.

Still this is not swine flu and neither seasonal flu afflictions.

What you thing about all this.





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