Living Long and Healthy

reply to post by Rawhemp


I eat fish 7-10 times per week.
I understand that you believe that our waterways are polluted, but honestly, at this point, I think you are an idiot.
Or waterways compose about 3/4 of our entire existance, down to the very molecular structure of our bodies.

Yeah, the Hudson river may be sorta gross, but the Kings river here in my neck of the woods is NOT.

An understanding fellow would realize that all of these rivers flow to the same source.

To the same body of water.
To the same body of water that comprises the vast majority of the makeup of the surface of this planet.

If the waterways of this planet are too polluted to eat, than so is the air from which rain falls to water our gardens.

Interesting tidbit for ya... From the mouth of the Amazon River, a sailor can drink fresh water 200 miles out into the Atlantic Ocean.

Guess what, the Amazonian River Water is fresher than the average tap-water in North America...

You can shrug off fish if you want, but then again, that is why I respectfully asked you to leave my thread.
Not out of any vindictive reasoning, just because I think you are a moron.

Respectfully.

By the way i have nothing against you.

The reason i joined your thread is because i love topics and subjects on health. If you think im being a troll and posting too much i'am indeed sorry about that. As you can see that i do love these subjects so please dont hold it against me. it is my passion to study naturopathy natural food hygiene which i will be doing 2010 year but not at all for professional reasons.

Just so you dont jump to conclusions of who i'am. Yes health is my passion to and i do and will stand by what i have experienced too which is amazing health no offence.


I will leave this thread so that you may be able to further put forth your ideas as i see you have not posted much and i apologise if it seems i have hijacked your thread. As from now i will just keep reading but will not participate.


Goodluck on whatever health journey you endeavour. All i know is the thing we have in common is nature peace!

[edit on 16-11-2009 by Applesandoranges]

reply to post by Applesandoranges


Live your life as you will.
But please do not tell me how to live my own.
I started this thread in an attempt to show people what I have read from those who have studied the livelihood of those who AS A WHOLE live longer than any other on the planet.

I honestly didn't even watch the video that you presented of the 70 year old woman who looks nice. Honestly, I don't care.

The article I presented in the thread-opener illustrated the lives of those who have sex into their 90's and work into their 100's.

I don't need to see a sexy gilf to understand that this sort of thign is possible.

What the aim of this thread was to give a diet that compares the CULTURES of those who ROUTINELY live into these ages and then pass a comprehensive list of the foods they eat.

If you disagree with the diet I put forth, just say so.
Say: "I don't eat fish, neither does this SINGLE WOMAN, and considering these things, I don't think you should either."

Until then, I also ask you leave the thread. Because honestly, your "findings" have absolutely no bearing on fact. They are just a mention of what you, personally, find beneficial.

Once again, no offense.

reply to post by Applesandoranges


Apples... I'm not saying that a raw foods diet is bad...

In fact a day doesn't go by that I don't eat at least one meal that way, i'm the first guy who will get up and drink a glass of greens...

I just think it's irresponsible to make insisting blanket statements and that's not you...

People espouse diets as cure alls for everyone and you could get someone killed... Like Nuts, get someone going raw and they want to make this sudden drastic life change and they hit the supermarket buying all sorts of nuts and produce they never ate before they could seriously harm themselves... Nuts are one of the most common allergies, and people die every day from a variety of nuts...

The B17 thing..., make sure you Liver is okay first, I just think it's a bit beyond to say "THIS" will cure or help "everyone" If you added up the numbers and everyone went RAW in America tomorrow... more people would die from Unknown reactions than swine flu would kill them this year.

Organic foods are great... but worse than the severe allergies are the ones that kind of lightly affect you, the ones that slowly irritate you and lead to long term harm...

I'm totally with that We need to seriously change how we eat and live and that absolutely includes Meat and the WAY we consume it...

And... I really think that pure Vegan just wont be right for people and you can get the same results with Moderation as opposed to absolutes.

I just think you can encourage health and longevity with responsibility and that people don't Have to be so extreme to get the results they want, that you can live a little and be fine and and live just as long and look just as good...

There are some Meat and Dairy Based food I'd never recommend going without...

Like a bit of Butter and Milk for the Vitamin D, particularly look at the health benefits when you make Ghee from Butter...

Or Fish, You shouldn't do without fish in your diet, Serotonin, Omega 3's Brain development in children... people like these "hot topics" like Mercury in fish and the Reality is if you really examined your produce you never know what your getting everything has some contaminants... You can buy Organic and the tractor might be leaking radiator fluid into the dirt and you can have god knows what in your food these days....

But any Vegan would still agree eating that Broccoli still out weighs in benefit NOT eating it, same goes for fish...

Supplements don't equal eating right and well balanced... I think Vegan can be extreme and Like ANY diet you have to know what your doing and definitely monitor yourself for deficiencies, allergies, blood levels of everything...

My argument isn't that it's bad, just that there is more out there and ways to do things right so things can be healthy and moderation and a bit of living in some ways might be better... A bit of Meat for some Creatine if your being athletic too, some extra Iron or a variance of Protein and Amino acids from different sources can't hurt... And it's not the same as eating greasy Mc D's burgers daily, to enjoy a good piece of high quality Meat once in a while.

Vegan is a cause to me more than a diet and I think it's a fairly righteous cause actually...

Just don't try to convince people by claiming that alone will simply alter everything or there are no risks or concerns or that "EVERYBODY" will benefit because there is little that applies to "everyone"

I just get real real specific with my health and utilize technology to optimize my results... I enjoy Atkins allot, I don't follow it to a T... I actual mix it with raw foods and even fasting sometimes...

The reality is raw doesn't work because there are 9,000 beneficial things in it, that helps a lil bit.. The real reason it works is because your not over eating and mixing food types and your digestion gets better and less food is better than more, i'd say personally that's 90% of the reason its actually healthy... what we consider "a meal" is usually way overdoing it and indigestible...

I find that less is more, on atkins I get the same results, why? because I have a Steak and Green beans as per tonight.... and don't eat to the next day and it Digests and I'm fine... It's when you mix in 5 other things that it rots and creates all the chemicals...

Meat by itself can digest... Meat with a Potato and sour cream and Butter and Bread and Pie WON'T and its not some minor inflammatory chemical that makes our diet Bad, or Meat rot in your Intestines it's the way we actually Eat... Raw can work because your eating in a digestible manner, it's the chemicals and fermentation and rot that causes the actual harm not that meat is Bad for you...

Raw Simplifies, it's good...

Now if you really want to push Raw...

Tell me about the real reasons, the environment, food production, Animal rights, I can maybe see some rational to cut back for those reasons and in fact mostly in life I have, I eat small portions.

But tell me as that guy did "My digestion much be rotten" or whatever the exact words were... Now way, not true, it's simply not the reality, you can't demonize one thing and elevate another to a "miracle" just because it's your belief...that's philosophy not Nutritional Science and you know... you have a right to a personal Philosophy... and I'm not bagging the lifestyle either, slightly somewhat encouraging aspects of it really...

But telling people they have miracles and being extreme... it really doesn't promote the cause...

Milk, Eggs, Butter, Meat, Fish Can be GOOD for you in proper amounts on a proper diet prepared properly

I'd encourage anyone to go Raw for a nice portion of the diet, I'd just say do it responsibly and you don't have to make it a religion and Demonize things to accomplish the goal...

30 days on cheese burgers will kill you, a bit of sushi ot a nice steak with a glass of wine wont

Maybe some people can't handle moderation...

Like saying Alcohol and listing it... a drop of Booze is GOOD for you, wine with that Steak makes it totally worthy and you know...eating long before bed and having it done right etc...

Booze? Whiskey during a Flu? Wine with meat or if it;s a holiday and you want to break Taboo and enjoy yourself...doe right and not too often it's fine.

If you have to be so extreme not to fall off the wagon then you have to look at elements of your own compulsive behavior imho... Not get on the wagon and scream the obsession at all the non believers

It reminds me of people who stop doing dope and become massive anti drug activists... because they couldn't smoke a bit o weed without going off the deep end with it or because they can't have a drink without killing their liver and binging suddenly I can't have wine with my dinner even though I don't share that trait, it will kill me ruin my life right? nope...not the case it's wrong... I can have Wine I can smoke a bit o what i want once in awhile... the person preaching Can't

I do my bit for the environment... I do eat lots of Raw and I also want a Steak sometimes and no, it's juts not true, done right it wot kill me or cause Cancer... I'll do may fast or take a bit of time to diuretic and clear my intestines and be just fine and properly in the right amounts Meat and Dairy are not bad for you by themselves.

People dont have to obsess to get the results, they have to moderate and vary and it's allot more than raw foods alone, exercise and BALANCE

and that's the bottom line Americans and most Westerners aren't Balanced... even when it comes to food we are either Animals or extremists, and that is NOT what these cultures Jay mentions actually DO they are Moderate... That's the real secret Moderation, not a magic pill and not a magic one sided diet, self control.

This Thread by Jay was NOT a thread about Veganism and it's been tracked away from what it was about... It was about Europeans and Russians and Japanese and Natives and their diets and lack of cancer and lack of heart disease

And they live longer healthier lives...

And DO eat some meat and do eat some fish and there are items yes like seaweed or wine etc... that benefit them as regular parts of their diet... Like the Goats Milk Jay mentioned...

and people come along and derail the logic of it all and make claims that it's all about their particular dietary fetish which...is NOT the case of how these cultures that out live us eat...

I follow the BEST of what works, some raw aspects are part of my life and so is Wine and So is Fish and so is Atkins because all preach moderation, self control and contain valuable life giving nutrition...

Whats being said here tho, is that's all crap as if those cultures don't exist and this guy making a fill or whatever has the only answer... and that's a lie... There are plenty of good and beneficial things that are no Vegan that are good for you and I wouldn't remove them from my diet nor recommend the extremism to remove them from my diet

reply to post by JayinAR


Well, JAY, Good find.

Could you please provide me with the source that describes, in detail, all of the foods consumed by these people? ANd surely not everyone on this island eat an identical diet.

All this talk of longevity.....Semi-Starvation diets may increase longevity in humans, though it's never been tested. We don't know if caloric restriction actually increases lifespan.

What we do know, however, the effects of semi-starvation diets are not pleasant:

Ancel Keys' Semi-Starvation Study

Among the many conclusions from the study was the confirmation that prolonged semi-starvation produces significant increases in depression, hysteria and hypochondriasis...

..... most of the subjects experienced periods of severe emotional distress and depression.....

.....There were extreme reactions to the psychological effects during the experiment including self-mutilation (one subject amputated three fingers of his hand with an axe, though the subject was unsure if he had done so intentionally or accidentally).[1] Participants exhibited a preoccupation with food, both during the starvation period and the rehabilitation phase. Sexual interest was drastically reduced and the volunteers showed signs of social withdrawal and isolation. The participants reported a decline in concentration, comprehension and judgment capabilities, although the standardized tests administered showed no actual signs of diminished capacity. There were marked declines in physiological processes indicative of decreases in each subject’s basal metabolic rate (the energy required by the body in a state of rest) and reflected in reduced body temperature, respiration and heart rate. Some of the subjects exhibited edema (swelling) in the extremities, presumably due to the massive quantities of water the participants consumed attempting to fill their stomachs during the starvation period.

You can also add that following the study all of the subjects experienced weight gain beyond their initial weight.

There are a few other significant studies conducted around the same time as the study above that exhibited similar results.

The results in the quotes above were recorded after subjects consumed between 1400 and 1800 calories a day. Doesn't seem like much of a restriction, huh?

-Dev

I'm afraid you'll have to take "semi-starvation" up with someone else. I never mentioned anything of the sort.

Also, my list of foods that I gave in the thread-opener was not one of the people in the article.
As I said initially, this is just but a small portion of the overall puzzle.

Other factors are likely to include all sorts of other things.

Meaning, the scope of what I presented was just a snippet of the main staples of these peoples' diets, overall.

But I appreciate your contribution.

reply to post by DevolutionEvolvd


Well your hitting the nail on the head right there Devo...

Calorie Restriction works like a Charm IF IF IF...you WANT to do it...

The mindset and pleasure matters allot, just as big as dietary values of substance Xis Happiness in regards to longevity...

That's a big part of why I wont go Vegan ever... I like to LIVE LIVE LIVE and I have to control myself because of that lol...

But to go Vegan would make me kind of depressed and i'd feel like a bit of a Donkey sometimes too... Like who the hell would want to go through life without ever having a piece of Cake EVER again, I make sure I get the good stuff knowing how awful sugar is real cocoa compared to Hostess Ding Dongs lol... But i'm not giving up Chocolate ever

I can't imagine going out with a woman and never going to a real Dinner aside from sprouts lol, or never having a drink EVER as long as I lived, I'm not an alcoholic lol, My meat isn't fast food...

Living like a Puts would mess me up in the head bad...

Calorie restriction? I Eat allot less Fast from time to time and take my dang Resveritrol 3x a day.... TY modern science, calorie restriction without having to be the fool this thanksgiving who sits there and eats salad and cranberry sauce...

You have to want to do it for calorie restriction or veganism to work at all or your going to suffer emotionally, not because you lack some vitamin but because...you can't live and go places and have a good time and happiness is worth as much as calorie restriction in regards to longevity...

Bottom line the REAL reason and motivation that allows most Vegans who enjoy it to be happy isn't this...artificial belief they impose that it will make them healthy, that's the rationalization... The REAL reason is they have compassion and other factors at work and can live with it

and I don't wish to bag anyone like that because it's Just and fine...

But when you get to be a Nazi about something and elevate it to religion well...

And lol... Calorie restriction does work...

But you don't have to do it every single day of your life lol...

Skip a meal till dinner, Fast periodically, let your insides clean out... Give up the American style meal 2 of 3 meals a day, do like that Lady and drink greens in the Am and Tea for lunch (for me with a bit of light sushi)

You'll be a Centurian...your body doesn't have to act calorie restricted 7 days a week... 5 is fine... and you'll liver ages longer, we all can be disciplined most of the week...

But what harm will the one day you want to enjoy a bit do? If you carry a solid diet all week you absolute can indulge once in a while... the food is entering an open healthy digestive system...

reply to post by JayinAR


I would like to analyze the diet/data myself. If you could just point me in the right direction, instead of having us rely on an article.

-Dev

reply to post by mopusvindictus


Semi-Starvation diets have shown to work for many different organisms, however, they haven't been proven to work effectively in primates or humans.

And, though they work, scientists have yet to come to a consencus as to the processes that allow for longevity in calorie restricted animals.

Who knows?

-Dev

reply to post by DevolutionEvolvd


Yeah they have never been able to truely chart it because it would Literally take a lifetime and a willing volunteer...

From personal experience, periodic fasting is when I feel and look my best and I don't do it nearly often enough...

Resveritrol daily has made some major differences in my health, including elimination of any grays I had in my hair, no joke... by itself it did a number on them then I started using emu oil on my scalp and I literally have zero now...

So i'm a believer

How do people feel about whole food supplements or vitamins. It is hard to eat enough of the proper things to get all the vit and minerals to work well. As well, don't confuse eating "meat" with good protein sources. We need amino acids too.

So you see a little MEAT and/or ANIMAL by-product can help you live a very LONG time. I think most people who are VEGANS/VEGETARIANS overlook the fact that the longest living people on record ALL eat MEAT (not much...but they do eat it)!

The problem of the WESTENER is not that we eat Meat--its more that we eat TOO MUCH meat. And this produces excess URIC ACID, which in small amounts is a hell of an ANTIOXIDANT but excessive amounts cause Diseases, ala Bursitis, Arthritis and the ITISes.

These people demonstrate Moderation in their eating habits. They dont eat all the time. Amerikans on the other hand Never STOP eating. 24-hour diners serving up Hambugers BIGGER than your head! Complete with the latest in 'Roids and other Gene Changing khemicals. No wonder we are happy just to get to 60ish.

Yet, with just a bit more RESTRAINT life could go so much further. Of course, it would help if the FDA made all REFINED SUGAR, TRANS FATS & CARBOHYDRATES(especially GRAINS) illegal! That move alone would extend our lives by about 20 years.

Are there any cultures that drink goats milk and do not live longer than average? Whats in the goat milk?

reply to post by wloy7


I use selective supplements and i'm genuinely an anti aging wonder considering what i did to myself wrong much of my life...

I use Resveritrol 2x per day

Emu Oil for skin and scalp which btw is like miracle working oil...

2x per week I do a Niacin Flush 6 capsules with a single Alpha Lipoic Acid to rush it to my skin

I use pomegranate extract for my arteries daily

Milk thistle 2x a week for my Liver

Daily Saw Palmento to get rid of excess Dihydrotestosterone...

Male Health and Enhancement Lol... If I am going to be getting busy, I use Zinc, Vitamin E, Dhea and L Arganine



Everything else I base on diet and life

If sick, I supplement with D and C

If anxious or under stress I use a compliment of B Vitamins...

For Mental I use Ginko and Omega 3's

Now Diet...

I regularly drink a bit of apple cider vinegar particularly after a heavy meal...

My main beverage maybe 6 -10 times a day is a concoction I invented myself... Black Tea, Cinnamon and Turmeric... (you barely taste the Turmeric)

Sometimes I use Manuka Honey as additional sweetener.




Does it work?

I can say this, I live by a university and very often when i go out at night I get double carded because they think my age is fake... I was tld by a young girl working the door a few months back "That if I was going to use a fake ID I shouldn't try using someones who is 40) LOL

Now health wise...

I was sick last month, what I thought was only H1N1... I went a month and I was really sick, but I worked went out at night functioned...

When finally i was feeling better I went to the Hospital and they told me I had Bacterial meningitis after a spinal tap and kept me for a few days...

I had managed to control an incredibly deadly disease... not ELIMINATE it, but I could have died and I'd attribute my regimen to the low Bacterial count and near elimination of symptoms...only reason i went was because i was still getting sporadic headaches...

So i went a month with H1N1 and bacterial meningitis in tandem and was able to get up and go out at night and function...

Why did I pick that monstrosity up?

recent move to the side of a forest and bad habits, all sorts of critters running around right outside and I did stupid things like leave plates and coffee cups outside over night where birds and other things like...lol the Porcupine in my yard probably got at them...

That's my guess at least

But supplementing right I held my own... so I believe firmly