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Satan Does not Exist

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posted on Nov, 16 2009 @ 01:57 AM
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The flaw in this logic is assuming humanity has "free will" as we have come to understand it. Free will is often said to be a choice between good and evil. Will merely choses an action, does not translate that action to morality. The word "free" is a misnomer. How can any choice for evil be freedom? The entire point of "evil" is to enslave a man. Be that his desires, his neighbors, his sins, and faults.

You cannot disprove good and evil using free will. Evil is not a free state of mind.

Free Will is ONLY the human ability to choose an action considered "good." A slave to his desires who does not understand this is not impartial in considering wether or not Satan exists. Try again.




posted on Nov, 16 2009 @ 03:09 AM
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reply to post by Fromabove
 





The fallen ones "Ben Elohim" or sons of god were angels that were to watch over mankind


Elohim is a plural, not sons of god but sons of the "gods" so the verse does not appear to be alluding to the yahweh god.



posted on Nov, 16 2009 @ 03:31 AM
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Very interesting. But can you point me in the way of the actual context of the texts?
reply to post by 12.21.12
 

You can browse the manuscript here



[edit on 16-11-2009 by randyvs]



posted on Nov, 16 2009 @ 04:09 AM
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It is a subtler weaker force but it is ingrained alongside and within the fabric of humanity like a burr in fur. I am trying to decide if it is necessary. Balance and tension created from tugging whither and thither holds things in place. But then again can you have too much positivity or "goodness?" This is doubtful.
Let's start with what we have to go on. The Bible is a history book which has been largely verified with the field of Biblical archeology. It may be a manipulation of tales to present a particular light but it is as a "primitive" recollection for purposes of telling an important series of events. I think it has been corrupted and overly edited, but still I think more omissions than untruths occur. Besides, it's tale is too similar to stories shared by unrelated people in far off regions, including the earlier Sumerians.
So lay all the tales on top of one another and see where they overlap. This will be closest to the truth. Corroborating evidence.
Given that...there was an Adam and Eve archetype -a first man and a first woman, a garden, there were "brothers" though not much mention of a sister, a temperamental and somewhat stricter "Father" comings and goings and visitation from the heavens on a fairly regular basis. If something at least that fantastic did not occur I think the stories handed down father to son and mother to daughter would tell a vastly different tale. It would be a plainer humbler beginning and far more believable. I can see embellishing a tale but to end up with THIS! Forget about it, a lot of it HAS to be true.
So I decipher and science supports human beings did undergo an inexplicable growth spurt lending credibility to the tale we were "created" male and female, supplementing evolution.
Now I take artistic license but I'd say we were intended to mate with each other (perhaps to achieve a certain desired result) and a bad seed entered the mix. This is represented as a reptile, a fallen angel, whatever- it was cold blooded, and non-mammalian. I find it accurate to divide people according to their level of empathy for others. They are either "warm blooded" or "cold blooded" so it is simple easy reference which I think might have an actual evolutionary basis somehow.
It is interesting that Cain, the firstborn of Adam and Eve is a killer, never is claimed to be in the likeness of God or Adam (as were Seth and Abel) Rather he is said to be "of the devil." He is a murderer....you have to wonder. Is this in Gods own image? Clearly he is not Adams child.
After Eve's "mishap" in the Garden many things related to "intercourse" changed dramatically. They had to wear clothes, she was going to have pain in childbirth. She was going to have desire for only her husband...etc.
The flood was intended to rid the earth of this terrible genetic error (resulting in wicked giants or Nephilim)....so whoever this creator is/was He had/has some authority and influence here on the planet.
Perhaps He has been out of town?
I am half kidding. Of course I don't know. I only tell you what makes sense to me given what I know about people, history, exaggeration and tradition.
There has been an "evil" element here from these beginnings. I don't think the flood got it all.
I wouldn't call it Satan...but like rust forms when you are not constantly watching and polishing the chrome, there is something, pulling backward.
Most of mankind has a very good nature. If there were not negative forces working overtime AGAINST us there would be much more progress in certain areas of our spiritual development and in our humanity.
Look where we are in terms of social issues and empathy toward each other even though 80 percent of this country is supposed to believe in Jesus, love, faith charity and hope. We are headed in the opposite direction. Soon someone will point it out, we will improve then backslide again...
You have got to believe there are innocent and guilty alike aiding and abetting pure evil, cleverly working against us.



posted on Nov, 16 2009 @ 07:05 AM
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reply to post by 12.21.12
 


According to the Xian bible Satan, the Son of the Morning,The Light Bearer, is the God of this world, his authority to rule was appointed by the creator G*d.
Jesus was not given this world to rule, he was just a King (though unseated) among the Hebrew People who refused him because he was of Nazareth, and was not of Jerusalem.

I always wanted to make a micro-brew beer with a picture of the euro-Jesus on the label and call it He-Brew, but maybe it's for the best I didn't, Jesus was way into wine though.

Caution; Poster is well known heretic, and deceiver, all posts should be taken with a block of salt intended for bovine consumption.



[edit on 16-11-2009 by Luminaught]



posted on Nov, 16 2009 @ 07:18 AM
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reply to post by 12.21.12
 


What!!! SATAN doesn't exist????
Are you saying that I should pray to Jesus instead



posted on Nov, 16 2009 @ 09:00 AM
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reply to post by IsleptIdreamt
 





The flaw in this logic is assuming humanity has "free will" as we have come to understand it. Free will is often said to be a choice between good and evil. Will merely choses an action, does not translate that action to morality. The word "free" is a misnomer. How can any choice for evil be freedom? The entire point of "evil" is to enslave a man. Be that his desires, his neighbors, his sins, and faults.

You cannot disprove good and evil using free will. Evil is not a free state of mind.

Free Will is ONLY the human ability to choose an action considered "good." A slave to his desires who does not understand this is not impartial in considering wether or not Satan exists. Try again.


No, I don't think you understand the concept I am presenting. Free will is your choice. At the point in which you make a decision it is neither good nor evil.

Ever hear the phrase "The road to hell is paved with good intentions"?

Well there is a bit of truth to that, reguardless your interpretation of what hell is.

When you impose your beliefs or manipulate others free will, that is where the concept of evil comes from. Because whatever decision you make you are excercising free will. But if you will try to impose it upon others forcefully then you are manipulting others free will.

Think about it.



posted on Nov, 16 2009 @ 09:06 AM
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reply to post by Luminaught
 





I always wanted to make a micro-brew beer with a picture of the euro-Jesus on the label and call it He-Brew, but maybe it's for the best I didn't, Jesus was way into wine though.


LOL Thats great, you should totally do it.

BTW I think Jesus was more into drinking blood then wine, but please don't put any blood in the beer.

Also for a tag line you could say "The King of Brews."

[edit on 16-11-2009 by 12.21.12]



posted on Nov, 16 2009 @ 09:13 AM
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reply to post by randyvs
 


Sorry I am having trouble opening that link.



posted on Nov, 18 2009 @ 06:21 PM
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Originally posted by 12.21.12
Over the years, I have been exposed to religious conspiracies, government conspiracies and educational conspiracies all which in some way or another giver credit to Satan as the ultimate reason for mankinds own downfall and crimes against humanity.

Yet despite all the bickering, every one of Satans critics have failed to produce any evidence that Satan or Lucifer exists at all.

I can show you plenty evidence of Jesus's existance. But after years and years of research I have failed to find any evidence that satan exists. People claim that Satan's spirit can not be traced to a specific origin. I say it's a fib and your lack of evidence is proof that the downfall of humanity lies in their belief on false gods and dieties.

Good and evil was a concept. It was created because man was given free will. If man has free will he has the ability to decieve others through his works. If man is given free will he can create a cause that he sees as justified even though it would be seen unjustified to most people.

There is no such thing as good and evil.

The truth about good and evil is that they are one and the same. It is the positive or negative imprint you leave on others that really makes a difference. That is where the concept of good and evil comes from. Don't push your beliefs on others. Educate. All other paths lead to your own demise.


My friend what is evidance? Is Hitler evidance? Stallen? Most all evil villians on TV that is potrayed as evil and the "good" always win. Isn't this all based on the GOOD VS EVIL.. There's a negative concept of math. So that there's also a negative base of the universe. Satan lurks in dark energy.. or was that matter.. I think it was dark energy and then theirs light energy. Lets think about it. We believe in paranormal but yet we don't believe in the devil. Satan's greatest weapon is that we don't believe in him. Btw. theirs plenty of cases of exorcisms that are out there. That should be proof enough my friend.



posted on Nov, 18 2009 @ 06:24 PM
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reply to post by Jordan River
 


Proof is accountability my friend.

If satan is accountable for all crimes then the real perpetrators go away unaccounted for don't they?



posted on Nov, 18 2009 @ 06:28 PM
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Originally posted by 12.21.12
reply to post by Jordan River
 


Proof is accountability my friend.

If satan is accountable for all crimes then the real perpetrators go away unaccounted for don't they?


Your saying if satan is involve... than why isn't he judge? correct? Or if it was his crimes than why the people have to suffer? enlighten me



posted on Nov, 18 2009 @ 06:35 PM
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reply to post by Jordan River
 


Nobody judges.

The point you wish to or attempt to inflict on others will ultimately land on you..



posted on Nov, 18 2009 @ 06:48 PM
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Originally posted by 12.21.12
reply to post by Jordan River
 


Nobody judges.

The point you wish to or attempt to inflict on others will ultimately land on you..


Well thats your freewill choice to make, that nobody judges. God does in the end to me. but thats my freewill choice. I've come to terms with my enlightenment how's yours coming along? Were just stupid ass monkeys running our mouths thinking we know it all. Were barely anything on the specs of time.
I wonder if you have read the entire Bible? Most of your answers could be in their only if you read it. At least all of Old testament.
It's also hard to tell if any of the biblical stuff has happened at all. Heaven is a multi-dimensional universe other than our 3rd dimension. So i could understand how satan may not exist to you. On the other hand if you don't think satan exist than why not air, energy, matter atom and protons. Our own self God particle that created our conciousness. It's a very eye opening idea. You can't see controled electricity but that exist. It's all about energies and the fighting balanace. oncer again.. exorcisms are probably the best area to get you to believe in negative. Negative exist in our math, so why not exist in another dimension?



posted on Nov, 18 2009 @ 06:51 PM
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reply to post by Jordan River
 


Our consciouscness itself is the God particle. We are the creator.



posted on Nov, 18 2009 @ 06:55 PM
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Originally posted by 12.21.12
reply to post by Jordan River
 


Our consciouscness itself is the God particle. We are the creator.


It is said that we are a part of God. CHrist has said this. In a small formality we are tiny God's in our destiny of life. negative or positive or limbo.



posted on Nov, 19 2009 @ 07:57 AM
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plenty of evidence jesus exists??? can you please elaborate and explain what this evidence is?

in my opinion...there is no solid evidence that jesus, god, satan, heaven hell or anything from the bible does or ever has existed.

im not religious...i dont think the eart was made by a greater being...in 7 days and we were put here and so on and so on...i think the universe can be explained with science and maths...obviously not yet...but eventually.

my theory on the bible is...

perhaps there were certain events similar to those from the bible that took place thousands of years ago but not because a god caused them...just through natural causes...then stories were told over thousands of year and slowly altered and chinese wispered into something else which was then written into the bible.



posted on Nov, 19 2009 @ 08:18 AM
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The belief in any anthropomorphic deity whether it's the Christian God, Satan or Jesus as embodiment of the divine can easily be compared with the belief in Santa Claus, the Easter Bunny or the Tooth Fairy. It is a primitive and childish belief for which no factual basis exists.



posted on Nov, 22 2009 @ 08:24 AM
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This discussion is utterly useless and is will be deemed oppinonated to all of the members here. It will be another battle Athesist vs non athesist. excuse my spelling. What's the point. Nobody wants to believe anyone! We obviously lost faith in ourselves



posted on Nov, 22 2009 @ 08:58 AM
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I agree the Satan of the bible does not exist.

Plus it's NOT correct the use of "Satan" and "Lucifer" as synonymous. These are not the same beings.

I guess many people knows 'the bible' is not the most valid source of information/facts since it's been modified to suit some major and hidden interests -many times in the past.

I also think SOME people need a palpable figure who embodies "Evil" -to keep them in constant fear.
Fear paralyses - so stay at home, and don't invest too much time questioning/thinking for yourself and acting; -just obey or else, be prepared for the consequences.


It's also too funny to read the unfounded allegations of secret societies being Satan whorshippers.

This accusations I've heard many time come from dying hard christian-fanatics.

I believe everything-(good/bad-right/wrong) is relative.



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