Satan Does not Exist

You say that you've found evidence of Jesus, but not of Satan. So, what was Jesus doing here, if there isn't any Satan? Wasn't Jesus's whole point of being here, to free mankind from the grip of evil, as embodied or incarnated as Satan?

And how do you explain all the truly evil things that have happened throughout the world - genocides, massacres, wars, famines, plagues, earthquakes, etc.? The Holocaust, the genocide off the Armenians, Stalin's purges, Pol Pot, Idi Amin, Jonestown, Heaven's Gate, the Black Plague, the Great Influenza Pandemic of 1918, the World Wars, cancer, Charles Manson, Nidal Malik Hasan, 9/11, the Inquisitions, the Salem Witch Hunt, the list goes on and on?

Hell, how do you explain the ichneumon wasp, without Satan? This wasp stings and paralyzes a caterpillar, then lays eggs in the helpless insect. While the caterpillar remains alive, the eggs hatch and begin to eat the caterpillar from the inside. The poor creature can survive for quite some time before finally dying from this. Is this something God thought up, or could it be something Satan devised?

Either there is a Satan that does this bad stuff, or else God Himself is doing it. Assuming there's a God to begin with, of course.

I am sorry if I didnt explain myself good. I was reading for a few days on break cause I kept messing up and posted once before here and just considering things. I considered in the past what if it was just a message on how to live life or subliminals or cryptic things and maybe 4 languages later or changed or altered and maybe "rapture" here on earth or zion gods last paradise or heaven on earth. And I read this story called Lucifers Halo where this girl the goddess of birth and rebirth had to go into hell to get his halo and he gave it to her. Then she gave it to this guy an adventurer and he held on to it but kept getting attacked by his friend and demons and archangels. Then a bunch of both sides showed up and you could notice the opposing sides good and evil what they said how they were dressed and what they represented. He blacks out and the girl tells him he killed them all became this skull with horns warrior. Then he might have been talking to god and the devil with them arguing and shattered the halo on the ground and they left and didnt kill him. There was a lot of heavy symbolism in the whole book. Like a sign that said goddess on mannequins in a department store window as he was walking down stairs and why would she Dawn give him Lucifers Halo. But in all possibilities anything is possible.

So you know for certain that snake man does not exist? I take it that you do not believe in anything supernatural, spirits etc. You said you've done years of research, but you only summed up your conclusions in a few paragraphs. I'm interested in why you believe this, not proof(because of course there is no proof either way), just why.Threads like these declaring this or that deity does'nt exist are now running rampant on ATS. Pompous... these posters ridicule anyone who believes in anything pertaining to the spiritual realm, not knowing they are blinded by their ego. Now ridicule of organized religion is one thing, I actually agree with alot of that, and also the bible is not in it's pure form, having been edited and reedited and also translated. Religion was utilized to keep people in line, I know this.

Christ himself says that you do not need church or even scripture, and his goal was not to start a new religion.

"Destroy this temple, and I will raise it up in 3 days." referring to his own ressurrection in 3 days time.

"Scripture is dead" Basically saying that the law of the bible is what divides us, that religion is NOT of God!

"Heaven and Earth will pass away, but my words will never pass away"

"In the beginning was the word, and the word was with God, and the word WAS God." So...if the word was in the beginning, then it was always infinite. Therefore, the written bible is a parody of the true word of God, not the ACTUAL word of God. It is the word of man, best trying to explain their visions. Not that the bible is'nt useful, or church, but IMO it will only get you so far, being man's paraody of the word of god(bible) and worship(church).

Back to Satan... Satan is US! The beast?? US!!! Sorry folks you can't blame all your shortcomings and misdeeds on snake man, it is our own fault. We are the enemy, even to ourselves.

Satan = fear, death, pain, sadness...

God = love.



Please elaborate on the concept of good and evil, I'm not sure what you're getting at. Are you saying that positive and negative energy does not exist? That there is no such thing as benevolence or malevolence? For example, someone who enjoys killing in cold blood is not evil, just has a different point of view.

thank you






quote]Originally posted by reasonable
Oh my.. how special we think we are.. when in reality we are a mere speck of cosmic dust floating in a sunbeam. The universe is massive with amazing things happening constantly, we are nothing special. People can't accept that, they would implode.. so they bow down before their sky daddy as a crutch to ensure they can cope with this existence.

Good example here, look at this ignorant post. If I had a nickel for everytime I've heard this argument..

A crutch? It's called love, and devotion. The universe is big sure, when you're in it of course. Imagine standing outside of the whole universe, I mean like far outside of it. Then, the universe as a whole becomes a mere speck, it is one. And the law IS one!

reply to post by 12.21.12

I can show you plenty evidence of Jesus's existance.

Really ? Please feel free to do so and which Jesus are you talking about ?

I'm with you all the way on there being no evidence for Satan though

reply to post by tribewilder

There is only love and fear, everything else is a product of those,

Indeed , do we have a single source for both or separate sources do you think ?

Either way it would appear to create problems for current religious paradigms non ?

Originally posted by tribewilder

There is only love and fear, everything else is a product of those, including Satan, which as you say, does not exist except in the minds of man.

no disrespect to those that believe otherwise.....

you sound like Kitty Farmer in Donnie darko.

reply to post by Donnie Darko


haha that Kitty Farmer comment was awesome! What a great movie

reply to post by 12.21.12


Satan exists for sure. Evil exists.

What about when Satan was trying to tempt and corrupt Jesus?

Good exists and evil exists and they fight each other every day, in every person and in every act, in every nation and in every situation.

my level of awakening on this is this:

good and evil are counter forces that hold the universe together, positive and negative, light and dark, yin and yang, 1 and 0,

life is a positive, death negative. life can not exist without death, good can not exist without bad.

stars and galaxies are born, live and die
to make way for new life, old life must pass on

in physical terms, death is needed for life. bones can not last for ever, they are subjected to the physical conditions surrounding it as physical matter. flesh and body exist physically within a limited set of parameters. for example, save for divine interference, physical injury or damage can only be treated physically to a certain extent. As far as our souls are concerned, our unique characteristics, these exist within Gods spiritual realm in his endless memory.

in one sense or another negative energy will always exist. if you fail to believe in evil, even the darkest and deepest of satanic evil, the evil that is behind essentially all of the worlds affairs, you have failed to see the most shining and deepest aspect of Gods love and goodness, the life he has provided us with, the very universe he has made for us, the very consciousness he has given us , the ability he has given us to choose between good and bad, even though our inclination is "bad all the time"

logic insists that a God entity must exist in order to provide stability that allows for life in the first place, the physical laws that enable matter to be kept in perfect order.

As many have come to see, the order of the universe in essentially every way is so perfectly set in place that it is as if we are located within a computer system so vast, we can not fathom the environment we are even located in. Placing your selves in that scale should really emphasize the point that a God entity does exist, one that as human we shall never be able to fully comprehend, aside from divine guidance, and even a small amount of faith. What the world be without faith?, without justice, or any sense of direction or stability. Ignoring the important aspects of physical life can quickly end in tragedy, not just for one individual, but even for the majority of mankind. This is why we can never attempt to abandon the idea of a God deity, in what ever reasonable way you choose to live your life and thankfully assign the Creator respect and honor for what he has provided us with. Do not let the devil fool you, he can do a lot of hurt and evil to us as humans, but he can never have the power or ability that the Creator does,t as he is a creation of the Creator, and one that can be done away with. Don't let a lack of faith move you to ruin your life.

with power and ability comes responsibility, and the way humanity has been going, it is high time we as a society become truly responsible for what we allow to happen in this world, or things will only get worse, before they can get better. And if things never become ideal, at least we were able to live a full, responsible, healthy and enjoyable life, and not abuse what we were given when we came into this world.

let us never become devils in ourselves as many have. to overcome the devil, we must first improve our selves by helping others.


[edit on 15-11-2009 by ats__fan039]

Hey there guys,

I agree with a lot of what 'ats_fan039' says in their post (at least 2 - 3rds at any rate).

But to add my take on the theory I have to say that I have never believed God or the Devil / Satan (call it what you will) are people.

However, as humans we often find it necessary to humanize things, in an effort to understand more clearly.

For example;

God is usually portrayed as a powerfully built, bewhiskered, old gentleman sitting on a throne in the clouds surrounded by chubby-faced, harp-playing cherubs in Heaven (aloft).

Whilst Satan, is demonized grotesquely as another powerfully built male entity who resides in the firey, pits of Hell (underworld)

(the psychology of both images is blatant to a point where if it doesn't get into your head superficially ... it will get in at a subconscious level ... advertising companies use this technique all the time).

Having said that I do believe Jesus existed as a man (not a divine entity) ... and I believe he was more likely to have been a political activist of sorts (with his teachings). But that's another subject entirely !

As for Satan ... it is a Christian concept that was really rammed home by the church, during the times of Christian conversion.

Let me explain;

The usual image used to portray Satan / Devil (who represents the epitome of all evil), is of a guy with horns / tail / cloven hooves / goat-like eyes etc. etc. etc.

Hang-on a minute that could also be a representation of 'Pan' ... the facet of God that depicts untamed nature / the wild places (moors / woods / animals / man etc), that was a vital aspect of the God-status to Pagans (Paganism refers to any pre-Christian faith).

This was certainly no coincidence ... no more than the fact that many Christian holidays overlap Pagan Sabbats ... and no more than the fact that many churches were built on (or close to) Pagan sites.

It was all part of the 'switch-over' process (simple as ...).


Woody

reply to post by woodwytch

The usual image used to portray Satan / Devil (who represents the epitome of all evil), is of a guy with horns / tail / cloven hooves / goat-like eyes etc. etc. etc. Hang-on a minute that could also be a representation of 'Pan' ... the facet of God that depicts untamed nature / the wild places (moors / woods / animals / man etc), that was a vital aspect of the God-status to Pagans (Paganism refers to any pre-Christian faith).

nice post, interestingly enough moses has also been depicted with horns.

reply to post by 12.21.12


Neither does the Easter Bunny

Originally posted by Mr Mask
Wow...you single handedly debunked Satan right there!

Is God next?

if he has debunked satan then he has debunged god by default.. if theirs no god theirs no satan, and vice versa!

this is a great day for crazy posts!

wow , some people here are small minded. Am I on ATS?

Just because you can't study or document it doesn't mean its not real. Just 200yrs ago I'd be hard pressed to explain nuclear energy and its relation to atoms or the x-ray to people of that time , I wouldn't be able to reproduce the technology either because I have no technical knowledge of the process and the people would just laugh at me or call me mad.Only I would know it is real , for having seen it in action in my lifetime , even then I've never proven it for myself.

Secrecy is a tool used to rule , it has so much advantages (you don't know your oppressor you can't fight him) , as someone said the devil would love us to think he does not exist , same as the Illuminati , NWO etc.

The next time some-one is brutally attacking one of your loved ones , hey there is no such thing as good and evil it's all in your head , throw them another loved one and when their done with their bloody business be a good lemming and let the psycho have you too , just for good measure.

reply to post by 12.21.12


Satan doesn't exist? You obviously never met my ex wife...

all kidding aside...

in many ways, Satan in most any commonly accepted form is the opposite of god, yet there are a few instances that are not discussed since Satan as a concept is easier to track than anything.

in for the most part, Satan was 'evil' because he wasn't a blind follower. Satan represented the questioner, the accuser and the adversary to a God that wished just to be the burrito supreme to everyone's beans and rice.

In that, you would have to accept the full dichotomy. Whereas God (big G) is the one, the all powerful, etc, Satan is the group, and the power of many hands. Satan is the mob, the misits, the geeks, the bikers, heck even the conservatives and they are all unrelated to each other.

You see, the force of Satan is individuality and forging your own path outside of the constraints of 'the norm' if that's where your path takes you. And you choose it yourself, you don't accept it as being dictated to you.

Remember, bible, old testament and even new.. if you ask "WHY?" you're bad, if you say anything besides 'YES SIR!" you're evil and will be punished.

Basically, god is the jarheaded drill sergeant and Satan are that troop of grunts saying screw you, we don't want to blow ourselves up sweeping for mines and shooting commies, we're going to be chefs, parents and conscientious objector.

Running parallel to what God says does not imply acquiescence to his will either when one holds the conviction that: "I have gained this by philosophy: that I do without being commanded what others do only from fear of the law"

reply to post by woodwytch


a secondary reason for the typically male depictions of both entities can be attributed to the time, and even currently where men are typically seen as the leaders and generals and generally 'energy'.

in most times, 'the enemy' is often portrayed as a beast, or ugly or as animals, or anything seemingly lesser than ourselves. I don't think any race in history has really ever spoken of being invaded by a band of supermodels with the brains of Einstein, the knowledge of Tesla, the enlightenment of the Dali Llama and the bedroom prowess of Valentino. Nah, they were always ugly cruel barbarians straight from the gates of Gamorrah and having the IQ of your average democrat. The winners were always the sparkling white knights who were attractive as well as enlightened and had really big dongs.

I personally feel like Satan and God/Jesus all exist on a higher plane, but manifest themselves differently here in our world.

Temptation is obviously all around us on a day to day basis. Whether it is the temptation to do good, or the temptation to do evil.

The way I have always viewed it, is that we are "test creatures". We are put here on Earth, innocent from the start. But our surroundings and potential choices are provided for us by God/Jesus and Satan, as a sort of test to see which side we will "choose", and then obviously once the "test period" of our lives is over (we die), we are granted the fruits of our labors, whether they be good (go to Heaven) or bad (go to Hell).

Remember this is only my own personal opinion, so don't try and prove me wrong and say how dumb I am and proceed to try and force your own opinions on me... you are only wasting your time.

reply to post by csuldm


Actually I think you nailed it. Except that Satan/God would then represent different spiritual realms. One being dark and the other one light. It is not as much a test as it is a manipulation of the mind. When you are born you know spiritual truth. But we live in a world where indoctrination plays a powerful role.

reply to post by chiron613

You say that you've found evidence of Jesus, but not of Satan. So, what was Jesus doing here, if there isn't any Satan? Wasn't Jesus's whole point of being here, to free mankind from the grip of evil, as embodied or incarnated as Satan?

There is an extroardinary amount of evidence which has been confirmed that Jesus traveled to a buddhist monastary by the name of St. Issa and lifted some of the teachings of the vedas that were later inserted in the New Testament. The monks became very upset with him however for altering some of it's teachings into a concept of good vs. evil. This was done for political reasons of course.

And how do you explain all the truly evil things that have happened throughout the world - genocides, massacres, wars, famines, plagues, earthquakes, etc.? The Holocaust, the genocide off the Armenians, Stalin's purges, Pol Pot, Idi Amin, Jonestown, Heaven's Gate, the Black Plague, the Great Influenza Pandemic of 1918, the World Wars, cancer, Charles Manson, Nidal Malik Hasan, 9/11, the Inquisitions, the Salem Witch Hunt, the list goes on and on?

Politics. World domination. The over throwing of several empires throughout history. Through relgious groups.

Hell, how do you explain the ichneumon wasp, without Satan? This wasp stings and paralyzes a caterpillar, then lays eggs in the helpless insect. While the caterpillar remains alive, the eggs hatch and begin to eat the caterpillar from the inside. The poor creature can survive for quite some time before finally dying from this. Is this something God thought up, or could it be something Satan devised?

I am not going to attempt to answer that, but in my own opinion wasps help prove evolution. Have you ever noticed winged ants? They are awfully close to wasps.

Originally posted by chiron613
Either there is a Satan that does this bad stuff, or else God Himself is doing it. Assuming there's a God to begin with, of course.

That's a false dichotomy.

There is no Satan, nor is there a God (at least what you believe it to be). There is nothing but infinite conscious awareness. It just "is."

Every belief, thought and concept is an illusion.

[edit on 15-11-2009 by Riposte]

reply to post by Centurionx


I do believe in supernatural. But I also believe that super natural powers come along with an excellent knowledge of alchemy and physics.

To elaborate on Good vs Evil. What may be seen as good to some can be very bad for others.

example: the aryan race that Hitler wanted to create which lead to a holocaust.


example: Illegal settlements in palestinian territory