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clamp down on christian false claims about prayer

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posted on Nov, 15 2009 @ 02:43 PM
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Originally posted by andy1033
reply to post by moocowman
 



Just watch that vid, i put above for you. Wales home in rugby too is also a good example.

If you just a hard line skeptic thats your choice.


Actually I'm more of an open minded skeptic.

I don't doubt your sincerity in relation to the topic in general, however my comment has been in relation to praying to the jesus yahweh god for supernatural intervention.

Your soccer match analogy throws up a few problems one of them being this -

If there are 4000 supporters praying for team X and 4000 supporters praying for team Y .From what your implying if I understand you correctly, If team X wins then the prayers of team X were answered.

All well and good if you can confirm that the prayer itself achieved the winning result having eliminated and there was no other cause for the win.

However, if 1000 team x supporters were praying to the jesusyahwhe god 1000 were praying to allah god, 1000 to Yoda god and 1000 were Uri Geller fans hugging his photo.

Which god answered the prayer ?

If the opposing side just happen to be praying to the same gods, why is it do you suppose, that they didn't get their magik wish come true ?


It's absolutely not good enough to assume supernatural when you have not eliminated all possible natural, but again the supernatural is only what we have not measured or observed under controlled conditions.

It wasn't that long ago that all illness was assumed to be some sort of demonic possession , you appear to be trying to apply the same reasoning to unanswered questions in relation to a soccer match.


Quantum physics appears to be heading in a direction that may or may not have answers to some of the problems we observe, why do you not look there perhaps for an explanation of your football phenomena ?

To just turn around and claim jesus did it because some people may or may not have prayed, is totally unacceptable.

Almost on a daily basis we now hear (mostly) xtians making various claims about how praying to Jesus heals.
Yet, almost all of them pay some sort of health insurance, almost all of them go to see a doctor (many of which happen to be Muslim or Sikh etc) many of them are using medication created by the alleged NWO which they condemn.

Almost all live within a few miles of a pediatric hospital or hospice whose beds are full.

Almost weekly we hear of some pastor or another that laid on hands with the power of jesus having asked him to fix this persons ailment.
Why not use the same prayer and eradicate all ailments which would cut down the queues giving jesus a bit of me time on his day off ?




posted on Nov, 24 2009 @ 02:05 PM
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Originally posted by On the Edge
reply to post by moocowman
 


Sorry to hear about your headache!
Have you tried praying about it?!


I have already added him to my prayer/foe list.Maybe his conscience
is bothering him?He does appear to be on a crusade,don't you think?



posted on Nov, 30 2009 @ 08:35 AM
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Hi Moocow,

I wanted to bump up this thread to make a point about redundancy in posting on the subject of "prayer" and "miracles".

I'm wondering why these threads are never killed for redundancy.

Let's see we have "Why won't God heal amputees" today on top of your "clamp down on Christians false claims about prayer"--by the way, just in case you are trapped in a box, other religions and new age practitioners believe in faith healing, too.

Or is the purpose just to attack one religion?

Just wondering, sweetums.



posted on Nov, 30 2009 @ 09:25 AM
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reply to post by moocowman
 




This was a dangerous and misleading advert, suggesting that prayer can accomplish what science cannot. Such adverts give people false hope or stop them seeking medical advice – or potentially not until it's too late. People who are seriously ill or have a chronic condition can understandably be very vulnerable so it’s important to report any such claims in any media. You can read more about the flier and the claims of the BCIM here . Link to Doctor Jesus


I'm surprised they didn't just outlaw prayer.

They outlaw everything else that works.

There is no money in a cure.



posted on Nov, 30 2009 @ 11:21 AM
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You know, I believe I have something new to contribute. MooCowMan asked another poster if there were Christians that didn't believe in "healing".

Well, the Baptist conference believes that because of the rejection of the Holy Spirit there will be no more healings.

From Baptist Bible Publications:


Because of their inability and refusal to rightly divide the word of truth (II Tim. 2:15), the Charismatics operate under the false assumption that these signs are still in effect today and that it is THEIR duty to fulfill them. This is why we have charlatans like Oral Roberts and Jim Baker living in mansions and begging people for money.


Wow. I contributed something new to this discussion. I wonder if I should post it in both places? I think I will.

Because I was told that there is value in discussing this subject in two places at once.



posted on Nov, 30 2009 @ 01:53 PM
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I thought I would bring some closure. MooCowMan, obviously did not realize that God doesn't answer prayers of masterbaters. I was so glad to find these intellectual responses on here.


Originally posted by MrDudle
Maybe he doesn't do miracles because you touch yourself at night. On a serious note, god doesn't exist, nor is there any intrinsic value in anything. And if you are telling us that by saying god doesn't exist that means we are polluting your thread then you are just closed minded!!!!!!!!!!!!!! RAWR I R MAD!!!!!!!!!!! Nah...basically dude/dudette you asked for thoughts. We give thoughts. If you don't like our thoughts then I suggest leaving?



posted on Nov, 30 2009 @ 02:09 PM
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reply to post by moocowman
 


You sound a lot like a christian preacher. Are you a preacher for the NSS? Just like the church the NSS wants a handout. that will help fight some imagined enemy (religion). Kinda like the "xtians" fight satan, no? www.secularism.org.uk...
They even peddle their useless goods.
www.secularism.org.uk...

I do not see how your belief system is different than eny others. Yours is right and everyone else is wrong evil or dumb.



posted on Nov, 30 2009 @ 04:00 PM
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Moocow, I am doing well. I'm sorry I missed a few grenades. How's this:

Greed doesn't kill people, Jesus kills people.

OR

Politicians don't kill people, Jesus kills people.

OR

Guns don't kill people, Jesus kills people.

OR

Drug traffickers don't kill people, Jesus kills people.

How's that? I can keep going.

It was Jesus, not Stalin, that killed 20 million Russians during the Cold War.

It was also Jesus that decided all girl babies in China had no value and forced sterilizations on women.

In his spare time, he created the chemical weapon program used by the Japanese against the Chinese during WWII, and passed it along to Saddam Hussein.

Castro and Che were closet Catholics and that's the real reason they were killing people in Cuba and South America.

Idi Amin was an evagelical Christian, so was Pol Pot...they were just pretending to be atheists to throw people off the scent.

Let's not forget that Jesus also created nuclear weaponry over a glass of wine.


Yes, these threads are always so productive. Do you feel better? I certainly do. I'll be posting this on the other threads as well since, well, there are so many of them.



posted on Nov, 30 2009 @ 05:28 PM
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So yeah, I'm on this vastly different thread about miracles not happening than the thread about amputees not getting their arm regenerated through prayer, and wondering why no one is posting about this vastly different subject matter.

Maybe I should have a prayer vigil and see if anyone shows up?



posted on Nov, 30 2009 @ 09:26 PM
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As stated by a well educated poster there are Christians that do not believe the gifts of the Holy Spirit are with us anymore.

One of those gifts is healing. Then you have those who just do not even mention the gifts of the Holy Spirit so it is difficult to understand what they believe unless you ask them. Then you have those who like to push their faith that they may not actually have and attempt to hold venoms serpents. The problem with those that are bitten is that they have allowed a gap in their life that allowed the enemy to get in through.

Also being that none of us can control God nor can we truly understand how he works, none of us can answer why some get healed and others do not. There is healing though. I no longer have pain in my knees due to prayer. I have X-rays and MRIs that show arthritis in both knees (a small amount but it is there or was). It has been diagnosed by more than one also. Regardless I no longer feel the pain. I take no drugs nor have I had surgeries, only prayer and faith.

My thought on it (and this is just a thought) is that there is evil in the world, no matter how hard we pray it is not going away. At least not yet anyway, God is not going to remove evil until the time comes for it to happen.

Sorry I cannot prove my claims. You can say I lie or whatever, but that is just not true. I know for fact prayer is real and works.

I am constantly reminded of the verse about casting pearls to swine when I come to ATS. I am not in any way calling you swine (please do not take it as that), it would be wrong for me to do so. But I do pray that you are not deaf to all the words that are spoken to you. I also pray that your heart is not so hardened that you cannot allow God to speak to you through others.

Raist



posted on Dec, 1 2009 @ 01:06 AM
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reply to post by Raist
 


I can answer for you why some get healed and some don't ....I love the lord he makes delivering his messages so easy its in plain english and if you try not to interpret the message but understand it. Gods word will work wonders you can't even fathom unless experienced...Okay back on topic her it goes:
Doubt is what keeps some healed and some not healed simple as that. In the latter part of John Jesus states that after his death and resurrection those who are baptized in his name will receive the power to do all that he has done. He healed, raised the dead, walked on water..you get the point. He said we will be able to. Jesus said we will be able to. Jesus said we will be able to heal. The only problem is that many have doubt and disbelief that must be dismissed or they wont see the miracles come to pass in there life. O ye of little faith, one could move mountains if he believes.

Its not as easy in practice as 1 2 3 though. Well it is but some will hear the word and lose it instantly others will hear and live among him for some time, while others will hear and do from here till kingdom come, thats just the nature of man



posted on Dec, 1 2009 @ 07:00 AM
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*rolls eyes and pats nearest Christian on the head condescendingly*

Ahh, yes. You dear little idiots. Haven't we explained this already in ten million threads? God doesn't exist and you should listen to us because we're highly successful people with BMWs in the driveway of our Swiss Chalet and PhDs behind our names. None of us eek out miserable day jobs and/or live with our parents still. We have it all together not like you dumb, violent rednecks who still believe in a God!

Why don't you go bomb an abortion clinic and fondle someone? I mean, that's what all you stupid Christians do. We atheists and pagans get to feel superior because our ideology *cough Marxism cough* was never responsible for killing 20 to 60 million people, and no pagans *cough Rome cough Sumeria cough Philistine cough Egypt cough Vikings cough ancient China cough Aztecs cough Maya* ever killed anyone and supplanted their gods and holidays with ours. We know this because we know that all important history started in eleven hundred of the common era. We know this because we're that much smarter than you dumb, violent hicks.

So please bow before our superior intellect, mature attitudes, and perfect grammar. Let us do your thinking for you because we are all intellectual giants with great jobs and respect from our community. Remember, people don't kill people, religion kills people.

Are we done yet? Seriously. Are we done? Have not these same arguments been exhausted on ten million of these threads?



posted on Dec, 1 2009 @ 07:52 AM
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To denay the power of prayer is hard as you have to denay the personal experience of millions. Every single christian country recorded tumendous amount of miraulous healins along their history. To force them to say it did not ever exist? not possible , it is like making a law where you obligate everyone to "believe" that 1+1 is not 2 . Rather I suggest for non-believer to open the eyes (the critical ones ) and onestly investigate the claims that cannot be explained. All 1 billion of them.

Kind regards from one Romanian



posted on Dec, 1 2009 @ 08:04 AM
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What about all the other religions and their false claims... I'm not disagreeing with you, just curious as to why you target "Christians" in this specific thread?



posted on Dec, 1 2009 @ 11:21 AM
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Originally posted by halfmanhalfamazing
What about all the other religions and their false claims... I'm not disagreeing with you, just curious as to why you target "Christians" in this specific thread?


*points to axe then points to grinder*

What about all the infomercials with false claims? I'll bet that in all the years since HSN and QVC have been running they have made more false claims than Oral Roberts.

Hey MooCow, think that the Super Kaboom Action Strips for Men actually help men with their "attention" problems in the bedroom?




posted on Dec, 1 2009 @ 07:41 PM
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reply to post by jonathannas0187
 


Yes I understand it is faith that keeps some from being healed, but trying to explain that to nonbelievers is, well not something that I wish to tackle. Remember I brought up the casting pearls to swine thing. Not saying the OP is of that persuasion but there are those here at ATS that are.

Faith is something that only us truly “ignorant” Christians can believe in after all.


Raist



posted on Dec, 1 2009 @ 09:47 PM
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Originally posted by Raist
reply to post by jonathannas0187
 


Yes I understand it is faith that keeps some from being healed, but trying to explain that to nonbelievers is, well not something that I wish to tackle. Remember I brought up the casting pearls to swine thing. Not saying the OP is of that persuasion but there are those here at ATS that are.

Faith is something that only us truly “ignorant” Christians can believe in after all.


Raist


No raist, your mistaken. You don't believe in faith..you have faith in your beliefs..just like everyone else.
The problems arise when someones faith is weakly defined and can be affected by another.
Everything is personal, faith is not religion.That is often forgotten and causes most of the conflict.
In defense of the original posters point..I must say it is very cold to prey (pun intended) on the desperate in that manner.



posted on Dec, 1 2009 @ 09:57 PM
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Originally posted by moocowman
Well this is a well overdue clampdown on xtians lying about prayers /laying on of hands and such nonsense, it's good to see the most vulnerable being protected from the xtian delusion at last.

Let's hope steps are now taken to clamp down on all cases of unfounded claims made by religionists in order to con people into their churches ,.



The NSS (national secular society) recently complained formally to the Advertising Standards Authority and Trading Standards about a flyer being distributed across Manchester by the Body of Christ International Ministries (BCIM) claiming that they could cure cancer, arthritis and other diseases through the power of prayer at their meetings. Claiming to cure cancer is in contravention of the Cancer Act Section 4.1(a) 8. The BCIM have now agreed with the ASA and Trading Standards to withdraw the flyer and to avoid such claims on any future ones.

This was a dangerous and misleading advert, suggesting that prayer can accomplish what science cannot. Such adverts give people false hope or stop them seeking medical advice – or potentially not until it's too late. People who are seriously ill or have a chronic condition can understandably be very vulnerable so it’s important to report any such claims in any media. You can read more about the flier and the claims of the BCIM here . Link to Doctor Jesus
tessera2009.blogspot.com...



[edit on 14-11-2009 by moocowman]



Would the OP care to say what nation this action happened in, was it the UK?



posted on Dec, 2 2009 @ 09:25 AM
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reply to post by Raist
 


It is written, that a fool has no fear of God in their hearts.It must be
wonderful for atheists to have their own holiday every april 1st!



posted on Dec, 3 2009 @ 08:12 AM
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reply to post by EdCase512
 


Yeah I know we don’t believe in faith. But I have read on here many times about those stating that we do. It was more of a line in their words, and what they say about us.

Faith comes from your beliefs. It also grows stronger as we grow in our belief. Sometimes though our human side overcomes our faith disallowing healing, or whatever else the prayer was for.

Raist



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