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10 Ways Darwin got it wrong - The Conspiracy of Evolution

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posted on Nov, 15 2009 @ 05:37 PM
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reply to post by s373r3d
 


And the sad thing is they need not be in conflict either. But mankind being what we are you can't expect any less. But I think that the reason we rush for explaination to questions we may never have answered is that we fear the unknown. The potential for possible harm is unknown thusly scary. So we convince ourselves we know so we can feel comfortable.

[edit on 15-11-2009 by Watcher-In-The-Shadows]




posted on Nov, 15 2009 @ 05:40 PM
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reply to post by FAQAmerica
 



Don't create false statements and then attempt to debunk them... try debunking what the theory ACTUALLY states.

Even though you are replying to me,
I think you should ask the person that actually wrote the article!

I just posted it, you debunk it if you feel the need.

Or do I need to explain how that all works too?
Thanks for your reply I think.
I am surprised and elated you made it that far!
Would you like me get you the contact info for the author of the article?



[edit on 15-11-2009 by dodadoom]



posted on Nov, 15 2009 @ 05:46 PM
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Originally posted by Watcher-In-The-Shadows
reply to post by s373r3d
 


And the sad thing is they need not be in conflict either. But mankind being what we are you can't expect any less. But I think that the reason we rush for explaination to questions we may never have answered is that we fear the unknown. The potential for possible harm is unknown thusly scary. So we convince ourselves we know so we can feel comfortable.

[edit on 15-11-2009 by Watcher-In-The-Shadows]


The two can work together, and they are working on it. Religion and science are making small steps to come together. It will be slow, but religions are adapting, and science if finding some truth in religion.

We do fear the unknown, and there are so many unknowns nowadays. We are afraid, and that leads to hate and anger. We are an angry people. We are changing faster than we can adapt. It is scary.

It is a human nature issue here. Base instinct versus higher thought.

We will just have to do something about that eventually, wont we?



posted on Nov, 15 2009 @ 05:48 PM
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reply to post by dodadoom
 


oh gosh you really want to turn this thread into a close look at all the terrible and horrible things in the bible?

Genesis 9:18-29 - Noah dictates his son should be a slave forever due to seeing noah nude when naked - while this isn't a law it is a moral lesson from the bible, what is the morla? its beyond me! Just saying that the bible is not a very good source of moral allegory...

Deuteronomy 21:18 - 21 = If a man has a stubborn and rebellious son who will not listen to the voice of his father or his mother even when they punish him his father and mother must take hold of him and bring him to the elders at the gate of his town, They shall say to the elders, "This son of ours is stubborn and rebellious. He will not obey us. He is a glutton and a drunkard.. All the men of the town must then stone him to death. You must banish this evil from among you!

^^ which bit did i get wrong? the bit where you have to kill your child? no thats right their in the bit about 'the law'

Deuteronomy 13:6...
Deuteronomy 13:13
Leviticus 15:16
Leviticus 18:22
Deuteronomy 22:23
Deuteronomy 22:13
Deuteronomy 29:19 - - 'If anyone should think to himself, "I will do well enough if I follow the dictates of my heart, Yahweh will not pardon him. His wrath shall burn against him."

So which of these are examples of good positive morals we agree with in modern times?

or to be more modern, as many people seem to think jesus makes up for the old gods crazy laws....

Matthew 5:27
'You have heard that it was said, "Do not commit adultery. I tell you that anyone who looks at a woman lustfully has already committed adultery with her in his heart" - basically Jesus is saying that if you see a pretty woman you will be punished, thats not really fair rule to give to a species with such high sex drives as us mammals!

Who can forget what the everloving jman will say to us in the bad pile... "Depart from me, you who are cursed, into the eternal fire prepared for the devil and his angels." - Jesus threatens eternal damnation for the slightest transgression, of gods law....

"Do not think that I have come to abolish the Law of Moses or the Prophets. I have not come to abolish them, but to fulfill them, In truth I tell you, until heaven and earth pass away, not even the smallest stroke of a letter will pass away from The Law" Here i think it's kinda clear that jesus is saying untill the end of the world the rules listed above still stand.

Can you possible defend these rules in our modern society?



posted on Nov, 15 2009 @ 05:54 PM
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reply to post by s373r3d
 


Whole heartedly and 100% agree.



posted on Nov, 15 2009 @ 06:04 PM
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reply to post by Watcher-In-The-Shadows
 


you don't let your opinion rule your perception? that makes absolutely no sense what so ever, are you trying to say that you don't actually hold any solid opinions?

It is your opinion that a car traveling very fast towards you will hurt, you have been taught that most likely without ever having experienced it for yourself - much evidence has shown you this is likely to be true but still you are unsure, one day you are in the road and a car speeds towards you - do you get out of the way? of course you do.

It's only an opinion that the car hitting you was a bad thing, yet you let it control your actions - we can only act on what our opinion of the world tells us to do, the better our opinions the more likely we are to act in a sensible manor...

now i consider perception to be an near enough perfect replacement for the world perception - you perceive something only as an opinion, apart from the famous 'i think therefor i am' statement which we can actually know - everything else is just an opinion, how we perceive the world dictates how we react to it.

I try to carefully and sensibly work out the best way to live my life, looking ay evidence and understanding life - always willing to update or amend my view as new evidence comes along, this is absolutely against the principles of organized religion.... In case your forgot this debate isn't about whatever belief system you cling too, or about silly pointless deist ideas of god - it's about the scripture's of genesis and the creation story contained Vs the Theory of Evolution as purposed by Charles Darwin - if you don't have anything to add to that then why even come here?

Evolution and the natural sciences are helping to create a good understanding of the biological world with this we will be able to do something NEVER before done by humans - live in actual harmony with nature, not like our poor ancestors who had to fight tooth and nail for every scrap of food or like the billions of humans today fighting for every last scrap of food in godforsaken lands around this globe... Science is actually providing great benifits to humanity, medicine being one of the most important if course, it's a awful lot more effective than preying or visiting llords.

If we let crazy religion to dictate how we live then we'll stay in the dark ages forever, the most i could hope for is to buy a pardon from the vatican so i might if i'm lucky be able to enter heaven when the small pox gets me (of course science has already solved that problem though, one which religion never did)

I think you are just twisting words because you don't actually have a position in this debate which you feel able to defend, instead you only attack because you like doing it.



posted on Nov, 15 2009 @ 06:07 PM
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To go back on topic more. Darwin is wrong. Science is wrong on a lot of issues. At the same time though, religion is wrong. This debate on Darwin was created by religious people.

I think both sides realize they are wrong and they are afraid of that. It leads to hate and one sided arguments. Let it go. Talk about the real issue here.

This is not a debate on Darwin being right or wrong. It is a debate on science versus religion. It is peoples beliefs being challenged on both fronts. I can admit that science is wrong, but I have faith in a lot of it. Can you admit that, just maybe, religion is wrong?

Science is a religion of sorts. It is a system of beliefs.

How isn't science a religion? Example~
The human genome has 23 paired chromosomes, 20,000-25,000 genes, and about 3 billion base pairs. Life has been on earth about 3-3.5 billion years. So in 3 billion years somehow 3 billion base pairs managed to line up in such a perfect way to allow me to type this message. That is a lot to swallow without a little faith.



posted on Nov, 15 2009 @ 06:13 PM
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Originally posted by Kerry_Knight

Let’s face it, not one of you claiming Christians answer to scientific enquiry is always "God did it" has EVER cited a Christian actually saying that ESPECIALLY one who is a scientist. Atheist's say we say that and if you Google that phrase, in every example given in the thousands of pages of people using that quote, it is an atheist, saying Christians say it and again, without citing a single Christian individual they actually heard say it.




By definition, no apparent, perceived, or claimed evidence in any field, including history and chronology, can be valid if it contradicts the Scriptural record. Of primary importance is the fact that evidence is always subject to interpretation by fallible people who do not possess all information.


Answers in Genesis Statement of Faith
www.answersingenesis.org...



posted on Nov, 15 2009 @ 06:14 PM
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Even if Darwin's theories were completely disproven, this doesn't mean that biblical explanations are the correct ones. In fact, it doesn't mean that biblical creationism even holds an ounce of truth. There is a whole new paradigm that comes into play with all of this, and falls somewhere in between Darwin and bible stories, and it's called consciousness. You could say there is intelligent design involved in creating this universe and others, but people shouldn't equate such a general term as intelligent design to biblical creationism or a christian god. Intelligent design could very well simply refer to CONSCIOUSNESS, which has no ties to biblical creationism or a christian god. Rather, it's a quantum mechanics related idea and is based in real science as apposed to intelligent design, which is merely a modernized argument for the christian god that avoids specifying an identity for the designer in order to circumvent court rulings that prohibit the teaching of creationism as a science.

Anyway, once you learn that there were at least 25 icons and deities that preceded J.C. by thousands of years in many cases with the same story as Jesus, you begin to realize what a steaming pile of plagiarism the bible actually is.



posted on Nov, 15 2009 @ 06:19 PM
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reply to post by NatureBoy
 

Thanks!
It is what it is. Its not perfect.
It was written and translated by man.
If we took every passage literally we would be in trouble!
Think of it as an owners manual, a guidebook if you will.

What if you read in your owners manual how to change the oil,
but you didn't understand the part about putting the plug back in?

Most things like this I think are meant to scare us.
I know that sounds bad and that God demands things.
But, unfortunately, its sometimes the only way we learn
bad from good to progress to the next phase.
We have to become trustworthy. It doesnt just happen I dont think.

Just because it says an eye for an eye, it doesn't mean were supposed
to run around poking peoples eyes out if they have ones like we do.

So many times it is talking about an event that happened in history also,
not neccessarily a law to follow currently.
In my opinion of course. From my inerpretation of it.

Sometimes you have to read the entire book before you understand
the context of a single verse.
Not saying you did or didn't do that,
just that I have found that to be the case many times.
I am not a pastor so bear with me here! Thanks!



[edit on 15-11-2009 by dodadoom]



posted on Nov, 15 2009 @ 06:20 PM
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Nice job poster. Three ways to disprove the stubborn megalomania of evolution theory.

1) Go wash the dishes and see how convenient those fingernails are just when you need 'em.

2) Please explain how the size of the sun and the size of the moon are so close to each other to the human eye.

3) Please explain the spread of the AIDS virus. One man, a sick bastard to be sure, had sex with one African monkey! He was a flight attendant (big surprise there) who carried his virus from Africa to the bath houses of San Francisco and millions have died as a result!

Now even if he had the sexual appetites of the three Manhattan trollopes and their mother on Sex and the City, if evolution were a fact sex between humans and monkeys would have been part of our common history, not a death sentence for humans.

But "public health officials" with a twisted agenda (the opposite of straight is twisted) chose to protect a behavior instead of a people.



posted on Nov, 15 2009 @ 06:28 PM
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Originally posted by spacemanjupiter
Even if Darwin's theories were completely disproven, this doesn't mean that biblical explanations are the correct ones. In fact, it doesn't mean that biblical creationism even holds an ounce of truth. There is a whole new paradigm that comes into play with all of this, and falls somewhere in between Darwin and bible stories, and it's called consciousness. You could say there is intelligent design involved in creating this universe and others, but people shouldn't equate such a general term as intelligent design to biblical creationism or a christian god. Intelligent design could very well simply refer to CONSCIOUSNESS...


I understand all this, but people need something to believe in. It is much easier to change a religion through small steps of understanding. Eventually it will change enough, that it will be a new religion-science.

Intelligent design is one of those small steps. Religion is tiptoeing more and more in favor of science. I know they are general terms, but it is a step forward. Creationism is not most people's or most churche's belief anymore. They are adapting.

As for quantum physics. This is where some science is finding truth in religions. Consciousness, time, movement, all of these have been debated by eastern religions. It vibes pretty well, and there are scientists out there saying, "well I'll be damned" over it.

And yes, the bible is full of plagiarism



posted on Nov, 15 2009 @ 06:32 PM
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reply to post by s373r3d
 


but if you look at the first thing i posted i clearly state yes darwin was wrong - darwin is NOT perfect, he is NOT divine or all knowing... thats not how science works, it doesn't pretend to be...... UNLIKE RELIGION.

The pope has a magic chair, you heard of this? he sits on it and is never wrong. did you know that? its part of catholic tradition... well some popes have contradicted other peopes while sitting on the chair, THAT is a problem.

Darwin could have written a whole chapter about how he thinks Obama was born in kenya for all i care, just because he was not always right does not mean his theory of natural selection is wrong.... millions upon millions of pages of science have been done since then, the thing is so refined that should darwin come back from the dead he would require a comprehensive education just to catch up with his own theory, certainly genetics would interest him greatly - how the information is actually passed on from parent to child...

Darwin does not equal evolution, The bible DOES equal religion.

A single mistake in the bible proves it is not perfect, and thus not divine...
A single mistake in darwin proves we have more science to do to work out whats really going on...



posted on Nov, 15 2009 @ 06:44 PM
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reply to post by dodadoom
 


you might be shocked actually how many versions of the bible i HAVE read, not just christian ones - i can recoment Torah Talk on Israel national radio if you want to hear some really interesting information about how the words actually translate from original context Hebrew.

Basically yeah some of the bible is metaphorical thats for sure, however those sections which i provided aren't - they are clear, referred to repeatedly thought out the bible as 'the law' and historically treated as 'the biblical law' by jews christians and muslims - infact most of the terrible shock quotes you here people shouting about dem arabs and dat koran - yes, they come from the old testiment....

just now you said i was being to vague, i provide exact clear and confusable references and you tell me i shouldn't look too closely?

i dare you, try to rationalize why god the person who created all life we are supposed to believe, he that can do anything and knows all - why would he demand i kill my entire family? oh because they wanted me to follow another religon? sure sounds fine, freedom of religion is after all a terrible thing - religion tolerance is abhorred by god.

[edit on 15-11-2009 by NatureBoy]



posted on Nov, 15 2009 @ 06:46 PM
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reply to post by NatureBoy
 


Yes, we sure do have a lot of work to do. Religion is a challenge to science. It is wrong, but as I said people need something to believe in.

When science can give us the answers we truly seek, all other religions will die. In the mean time we need to forge ahead and work with what we have. Making religion accept science will help advance the world.

I know religion is wrong, I am not here to argue that. I know science has work to do. When science is wrong, we need more research and understanding. It is how science works.

What do you think about religion versus science? How will we change religion? Do you really believe people in the USA listen to what the pope has to say(in general)? Do you believe science is a religion?



posted on Nov, 15 2009 @ 06:51 PM
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reply to post by Boston Grump
 


1# they evolved as weapons, notice how most animals have claws? yeah evolution baby, thats why is does! Why don't you go and give birth to a child and see how well god designed our massive heads and small hips? (covered in much detail early in the thread)

2# they just are, why shouldn't they be? why does the bible only ever mention the planets which can be seen from earth? it talks of 7 planets - they include the sun and moon in this of course, not knowing any better - the other three god never mentioned when he was talking about the other planets he made? why?

3# lol, thats not how it happened at all, people ate bush meat - we happen to have almost exactly the same physiology as apes and monkeys (not due to evolution though lol) and thus the retrovirus which effected them passed over to us - it spread in africa and most likely traveled out of africa in western tourists, it does remember have a very long gestation period so its hard to spot for sometimes YEARS after catching. -aids evoled, or god made it - hummmmm.......

-SNIP-

Mod Edit - Civility And Decorum Are Required on AboveTopSecret.com

[edit on Sun, 15 Nov 2009 19:19:10 -0600 by MemoryShock]



posted on Nov, 15 2009 @ 06:53 PM
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Originally posted by Boston Grump
2) Please explain how the size of the sun and the size of the moon are so close to each other to the human eye.

Now even if he had the sexual appetites of the three Manhattan trollopes and their mother on Sex and the City, if evolution were a fact sex between humans and monkeys would have been part of our common history, not a death sentence for humans.

But "public health officials" with a twisted agenda (the opposite of straight is twisted) chose to protect a behavior instead of a people.


Is #2 a serious question? What does it even have to do with evolutionary theory? Not sure if you've looked at the sun lately (I wouldn't recommend it without some sort of filter), but they aren't really that close to each other in size. Your statement is akin to comparing the size of Venus to the naked eye and comparing it to the size of Jupiter. And we know that those two planets are nothing alike. Again, what does this have to do with evolutionary theory?

Your third question shows you have little understanding of evolutionary theory.



posted on Nov, 15 2009 @ 06:55 PM
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reply to post by NatureBoy
 

I agree.
Religions are weird. And fallible.
Believe and read what you like, by all means,
but ya, don't kill your family.

Bad idea. IMO Thanks!



posted on Nov, 15 2009 @ 07:17 PM
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Please, everybody, stay on topic, without personal attacks or improper behaviour.

Everything that was posted here could have been done in a more polite way, with the same meaning and probably a better result.

Thanks.



posted on Nov, 15 2009 @ 07:24 PM
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reply to post by s373r3d
 


no science is not religion, science is testable religion is dictated by higher power.

Never in the history of the world had religion acted in an entirely moral way - the catholic church, i don't know if you've ever been to the Vatican - i did, it was horrible - dripped in gold and priceless art, all from a time when my forefathers were tilling fields on their owners fields, or working down the mines barely making enough to feed a family after working upto 17 hours underground 6 days of the week.

To study the history of the world, to see time after time those good people who believed what they said and just wanted to live in a world of truth and beauty, we see them killed and beaten - to see them oppressed and maligned. You christian types might like to say you have been persecuted, judaism might have a fairly good claim to call themselves persecuted - but really could anyone deny the most persecuted belief in history is that of the athiest?

Religion causes too many problems to just let it lie, all those millions of people in africa with no access to condoms and a normal human sexual impulse coupled with poor standards of education - the pope has much say in this, HE and his RELIGION are the reason that those people don't have access to condoms - it is also partly the reason they have poor standards of education... Had instead of demanding that condoms are wrong he could have pushed the idea that sexual education is needed, thus millions upon millions of people wouldn't suffer the terrible effects of aids.

I am a morally driven person, i can't see someone suffer and not help them - i am an Athiest, i look at someone and think 'poor fella, the world is so harsh and no one is looking out for him, i'll do what i can to make his lot a little better' and i think how i would hate to be in his shoes and how nothing but luck put me where i am, i feel like i have a duty to the rest of humanity, we're all in this together.

A religious person can just shrug off other peoples suffering as all part of the plan, they'll get their reward in heaven, god gave me this because i am great, etc, etc, etc.

Sure they #could# try to please god, do the charity thing - some greed driven act to placate the all seeing eye - then again it #could# be their duty to make sure that person finds the right god (see major barbra by george bernard shaw on the salvation army and its many evils, inquisitional tourture carried out in the solem belief that as long as the person suffers in this life and converts to the correct jesus based religion its a;; worth it because he avoids hell and enters heaven.

I believe in many of the orignal catholic tenants (catholic actually means universal) - the oneness of humanity, etc, etc infact john dunn's for whome the bells tolls is one of my favourite poems of all time - its a devotional of course, but the real moral is the whole society relies on everyone else, if someone dies we all die a little - if someone suffers we all suffer, thus we should try to make the world as good as possible for everyone.

I don't have any problem with the idea of a god, however if that god starts to tell you what to think, how to act and who to hate then he better provide some good arguments or solid proof of his divinity. As i've said many times, if god wanted us to believe in him he would produce a little window when we reach 13 years old or so which explains life, provides some moral guidelines and offers to make a deal in which we can get rewarded for obeying rules.... as it is, i am totally unwilling to listen to the inane nonsense of some bronzeage nutjob who fled his position in the egyptian mystery schools taking most likely the many secrets of statecraft, religious control and narcotic essential oils (used to make incense and various amphetamines) to create a cult which has spawned many other equally violent, closeminded and authoritarian belief systems in which his words have been so twisted and confused that now no one can even say with any confidence when the books allegorical and when its speaking pure truth.

I agree some people like religion, it makes them feel special or powerful or whatever it is, it lets them off the hook for all the moral choices we have to make on a day to day bases, oh its ok god will sort it out, and on they go blindly hoping some magic wizard is looking after us, well that magic wizard never helped in any plague, he never showed up at any deathcamps, never whispered in thomas de Torquemada's ear to stop killing people he thought were maybe athiests, heratics or crypto jews/muslims - what good is he really?



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