The "Moon God" conspiracy

reply to post by babloyi



Thankyou for the information you have gathered and interpreted. I had come to similar conclusions for different reasons based on different inquiries.

The information on the symbolism on the flags from what is available on the web goes into some kind of mist and the true meaning and purpose is lost in time.

That particular symbol of star and crescent shows up in a lot of art dug up in a lot of places. It actually shows up in movies and advertising today.

Anyway, the thread is interesting in soundly refuting the moon god nonsense. It's always tough with ancient languages and cultures to know what that symbolism meant but why invent convoluted meanings when maybe it was just a way to record and recall some unusual astronomical event. After all, it is a picture of a moon and a star.

reply to post by luxordelphi


the hebrews and israelites also had a lunar calendar.
one of the reasons i think the moon god, sin, became associated is because the law is what gave rise to the knowledge of sin. without the law, you wouldn't know you were doing anything wrong, and if you don't know you're doing wrong, how can you be blamed?
"ignorance of the law is no excuse," is a human saying.
god is more merciful than that. so initially our ignorance of the law, protected us from personal responsiblity. in effect, our knowledge of the law created a negative chain of events, as humans were incapable of keeping the law and yet once they knew it, the conscious act of sin came about.

reply to post by undo



The ancient lunar calendars hold a special fascination for me in these times. The Exodus and subsequent books of the Old Testament give clear proof to the situations between God and man that you describe.

The word sin, as in the Engish definition, is unrelated to Sin, the supposed Babylonian moon god.

From citizendia.org 'Sin' 'Etymology'

"The word sin derives from Old English synn, recorded in use as early as the 9th century."

"The word may derive, ultimately from es-, one of the Prot-Indo-European roots that meant 'to be'..."

" 'Sin' was also the name of the Babylonian/Akkadian moon god. Some students in recent times have postulated modern English word 'sin', but this is likely a folk-etymology. Note that the Babylonian/Akkadian deity name Sin is derived from the Sumerian moon god Nann-Suen."

Sin as in doing wrong in the eyes of God has nothing to do with Suen/Sin as in the Babylonian entity.

reply to post by KJV1611

Did you even read my post explaining why there "appears" to be contradictions regarding sacrifice? Did you not see the dead animals were not for God....they were for man's sins?!?

Trust me, I read your post more than once before typing out a reply.

I am not asking WHO or WHY the sacrifices were for.
Even if animal sacrifice were for "mans sins" , did God ask for people to do practise such a thing??
i.e animals to be killed/burnt whole or did God shun this practice enitrely and ask for men to obey his words instead? There are several verses which support both notions.

This is a simple question and can be answered in a "yes" or "no" manner.

If "yes"... then why so many verses which show God does not want animal sacrifices?
If "No"... then why should you think you can be saved by believing that an innocent man died as a sacrificial lamb for your sins.

IMPORTANT : I am not asking for a theological explanation. My question is regarding conflicting records of what God wanted with regards to sacrifice.

As for the Law, God did away with the law in the New Testament with the death of Jesus Christ.

Correction.
God, the one who gave the laws in the first place, did not do away with law in the New Testament.
God is not speaking in the verses of Galatians that you quotes... it is Paul.... the ONLY person among the writers of the bible who wrote against the law.
There is NOT one verse in the bible where God speaks AGAINST the law, instead God repeatedly commands that it be followed.

So, do you choose? God or Paul?

The law "taught" us that we are sinners, but it can never save us as NO ONE can keep the whole law. Only Jesus Christ kept it, now no one has to anymore.

"NO ONE can keep the whole law"????

Please turn to Luke 1:5-6

...there was a priest named Zechariah, who belonged to the priestly division of Abijah; his wife Elizabeth was also a descendant of Aaron. Both of them were righteous in the sight of God, observing ALL the Lord’s commands and decrees blamelessly.

Did you read that? It says in the NEW TESTAMENT... that there were righteous people who observed ALL the law. Also, please go through these verses...

now what I am commanding you today is not too difficult for you or beyond your reach. -Deuteronomy 30:11
-Well??? Thats God saying that the law is "not too difficult to be kept. So please reconsider whether or not " NO ONE can keep the whole law"


He follows my decrees and faithfully keeps my laws. That man is righteous; he will surely live, declares the Sovereign LORD. -Ezekiel 18:9
-You think "that man" is not saved?
Why would God equate righteousness with the law if God thinks NO ONE can keep the law.



Also, Jesus never said that nobody else needs to keep the law, because he is keeping it. In fact, he said that the law would remain till "heaven and earth passes away".

It makes me laugh much when I see people making a connection with the moon and concept of Creator in Islam.

Especially since they do this without so much as bothering to look at what Muslims teach their own kids.

I can vouch from personal experience that they don't teach worship of anything moony, or related to the moon or even hidden in the moon or even in the SKY.

God is no where, and everywhere in Islam.

Even the Quran, does not say God 'exists' in our terms. It just says 'He' IS. What a timeless phrase.

And not to sound all pompous here but a Christian who worships a dude in the sky should think twice about throwing fits towards the general direction of Islamic teachings.

reply to post by KJV1611

That clear it up for you yet? And please read all of this post and the verses cited, it is your question after all. There are not contradictions in the Bible, trust me, I have seen EVER single one that people bring up.

Well, I have read the verses that you cited.... but it looks to me that you are only explaining the contradictions in terms of christian theology by quoting unrelated verses (as you did with Genesis, Matthew, Galatians etc)
If you can rationalize obvous contradictions with your faith and personal interpretation of scripture, then obviously the bible would appear infallible to you.
But the grammatical contradictions in the bible remain unaddressed.

reply to post by luxordelphi


it appears, from what i've studied, that the ancients connected ovulation with the phases of the moon, and since menstruation was considered an unsanitary condition it became associated with sin. also, procreation of the adam once they were in their "fallen" state (et.al, once they were aware of the law) was not high on jehovah's list of satisfactory activities. in effect, the whole go forth and reproduce thing is not referring to humans in their fallen state, but in their unfallen state. this begs the question: -perhaps having procreative abilities is the issue regarding sin. i'm thinking prior to the fall procreation was more like cloning and not procreative at all (et.al, we weren't cloning ourselves, someone else was), and the fall was when we were given the ability to procreate via intercourse, which carried with it also, the ability to recognize and understand, the law. a double whammy. because eve went from not having pain in childbirth to having pain in childbirth, suggests there was a modification made to ye olde DNA so that women gave birth like animals do.

reply to post by My.mind.is.mine


Speaking of comedy factors, you wrote "we (muslims) worship the calendar by which our religious traditions happen, just happens to be the lunar calendar"

Just "happens to be the lunar calendar"! In a thread where the OP is trying very hard to distance islam from moon worship your not exactly helping.

reply to post by lestweforget

Speaking of comedy factors, you wrote "we (muslims) worship the calendar by which our religious traditions happen, just happens to be the lunar calendar"

Just "happens to be the lunar calendar"! In a thread where the OP is trying very hard to distance islam from moon worship your not exactly helping.

Huh??? He wasnt saying "muslims worship the calender"...

The quote of user my.mind.is.mine that you are referring to is here... www.abovetopsecret.com...

Read it again. He clearly said....

we worship the Lord who created all in existence, and the calendar by which our religious traditions happen, happens to be the lunar calendar.

In other words...

"we worship the Lord...."
AND
"our calender is the lunar calender"

These are 2 seperate statements.

Nice attempt at misquoting someone.

reply to post by undo



There is no connection between sin, the state or action as defined in English, and Sin, the entity sometimes interpreted as a moon god. They are two different languages and two different cultures and contain thousands of years of difference in origin.

There's a lot of difference in worshipping the moon and using the moon to provide calendar dates. There is, however, a subtle psychological manipulation in creating a situation where observing the moon and it's phases in order to tell time is made to seem like something it isn't. This manipulation tries to put the moon observer in a defensive position defending something that never existed to begin with.

reply to post by sk0rpi0n


No it is you that have miss quoted, not i!

When using quotation marks to quote it must be word for word, you cannot change words around as you please to suit your agenda.

I on the other hand have quoted him correctly, even if i miss understood him i definitely did not miss quote him!

Nowhere in mymindismines post does he say "our calender" as you quoted.

Someone actually starred your post even though you made such a fundamental mistake, or was it a mistake?

reply to post by lestweforget


he didn't change the words at all.. you know it's right there on page 2 for all to see. are you sick in the head??

"we worship the Lord who created all in existence, and the calendar by which our religious traditions happen, happens to be the lunar calendar."

you need help..

reply to post by lestweforget


This is what you wrote in this post www.abovetopsecret.com...

Speaking of comedy factors, you wrote "we (muslims) worship the calendar by which our religious traditions happen, just happens to be the lunar calendar"

Which entirely changes the meaning of what he wrote... that muslims worship the Lord AND that the calender happens to be lunar. These are 2 seperate statemtents.

Yes... he didn't say "our calender" in his original post. I split his sentence to communicate the 2 things he was saying... one being "we worship the lord" and "our (islamic) calender is lunar".... as clearly, some people are having a hard time understanding his post.

reply to post by My.mind.is.mine


Your a rude little bugger, ill say that much!

You like to label people and you have labeled me amongst other things a hater in other threads. I am christian and christians as a rule do not hate! I have challenged muslims repeatedly in most islamic themed threads here, i am not always correct but when corrected at least i have learned something.

I totally understand becoming defensive when your beliefs (faith) is challenged but muslims are way too sensitive and regularly take it too far. If christians today responded to religious criticism as muslims do there wouldnt be any non christians left, thank god most christians are a little more thick skinned.

So what im really trying to say is grow up, learn to take criticism and give yourself an upper-cut.

reply to post by lestweforget


you didn't criticize me. you completely rewrote my statement to suit your little tiny matchbox of an ideology. you basically criticized yourself by making yourself look illiterate. yes, we've clashed in other threads, and yes, you are a hater but you proclaimed yourself to be that. so i'm just picking up on your image of yourself.

let it be known:

i do not like you, and i truly believe that you need some kind of help.

Originally posted by luxordelphi
reply to post by undo

 

There is no connection between sin, the state or action as defined in English, and Sin, the entity sometimes interpreted as a moon god. They are two different languages and two different cultures and contain thousands of years of difference in origin.

There's a lot of difference in worshipping the moon and using the moon to provide calendar dates. There is, however, a subtle psychological manipulation in creating a situation where observing the moon and it's phases in order to tell time is made to seem like something it isn't. This manipulation tries to put the moon observer in a defensive position defending something that never existed to begin with.

i agree! i have found that the bulk of negative press all three abrahamic religions get, is often based on exaggeration, placing blame on large sectors of people for what a few have done, labeling everyone from the same country as being from a certain religion then blaming that religion for everything that country does, regardless if the people making the decisions are that religion or not and regardless if the people of that religion even agree with the premise. assuming if one person from that religion agrees then all must.

twisting facts, sensationalizing small things making them seem gigantic, mistranslating (on purpose) whole sections or single words from sacred texts, assuming what you've been taught the text says is the same as what the text actually says, assuming that representatives of a particular religion literally represent the entire religion even if most people of that religion disagree, often vehemently, about that representatives approach, particularly historically, and on and on.

To put it simply


allah is a moon god. Nothing more. Islam is about war, bloodshed, and conquest. Nothing more.

They have the star and the crescent on everything Islamic.

I rest my case.


Putting a smiley face on death, murder, and destruction is just not going to fool anyone not living in sub standard 6th century nations.

Does Allah = Moon god?

Maybe there is some connection, but their intention is certainly to worship the same 'god 'as the Jews ie Yawhwe - rthough I don't see why they would want to change the name?

All you need to ask yourselves is: are all these old testament 'channeled messages' from the supreme intelligence of the universe or not!?


After you have decided that the supreme intelligence probably doesn't care much for burn't offerings, or stoning young girls to death.

You need to ask yourself - just what the f**k are these messages coming from, and what do they want from the human race and why do they want to control it!???

reply to post by Fromabove

To put it simply
allah is a moon god. Nothing more. Islam is about war, bloodshed, and conquest. Nothing more.
They have the star and the crescent on everything Islamic.
I rest my case.

A moon god would order the moon to be worshipped.
God in Islam, like in the Bible strictly prohibits worship of the moon....

This fact wont change whether you like it or not. Case closed.

reply to post by JohhnyBGood

Does Allah = Moon god?

Maybe there is some connection, but their intention is certainly to worship the same 'god 'as the Jews ie Yawhwe - rthough I don't see why they would want to change the name?

First off... Allah prohibits the worship of the moon.

Secondly. muslims worship the God who.... formed Adam...saved Noah... blessed Abraham ... gave the promised land to Israel (son of Isaac).... gave the law to Moses.... inspired the prophets of the OT... sent the messiah Jesus to earth through a virgin birth.
Yes.. its all there in the Koran...

As for the name change... Allah is simply another variation for the semitic word for God,
The hebrew term for God is "elohim", plural of the word "Eloah".
In aramic, it is "Eloi" etc.

So that said ... "Allah" is closer to the original word for "God" than "Yahweh".