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White House Plan on Immigration Includes Legal Status

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posted on Nov, 14 2009 @ 12:40 AM
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nytimes.com


The Obama administration will insist on measures to give legal status to an estimated 12 million illegal immigrants as it pushes early next year for legislation to overhaul the immigration system, Homeland Security Secretary Janet Napolitano said on Friday.

In her first major speech on the overhaul, Ms. Napolitano dispelled any suggestion that the administration — with health care, energy and other major issues crowding its agenda — would postpone the most contentious piece of immigration legislation until after midterm elections next November.

Laying out the administration’s bottom line, Ms. Napolitano said officials would argue for a “three-legged stool” that includes tougher enforcement laws against illegal immigrants and employers who hire them and a streamlined system for legal immigration, as well as a “tough and fair pathway to earned legal status.”

Please visit the link provided for the complete story.


It ultimately helps the American worker to legalize a lot of current aliens. With such a large pool of cheap illegal labor, employers can get away with paying less than the minimum wage, thereby reducing the market for American workers. Besides being cheaper, illegals can be easily abused and manipulated because who are they going to complain to -- the authorities? American employees have rights and privileges, like overtime and unemployment, that employers don't need to respect or provide if they can get their work done for less money and hassle.

Legalizing (and therefore reducing) the competition creates a more level playing field for American workers.




posted on Nov, 14 2009 @ 12:52 AM
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reply to post by Sestias
 


Welll you could do it that way, but since all illegal aliens by definition are here illegally and thus broke the law to get here, maybe instead of kissing their asses and giving them what they want we could just round them up and drive them back over the border like one giant cattle drive.

Not all Mexicans.. just the illegals.



posted on Nov, 14 2009 @ 01:14 AM
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damn, aint this something..im legal,(born here) and got the crappy end of stick at work, retail job. Illegal immigrants work thier andd are trearted like gold...this is for a CVS
i did what the system wanted and expected of me, and got nothing in return. Illegals broke the law, and get served a godlen platter. Obama must be from another country, to consider us, legal citizens, not worth helping, and the illegals something to value*



posted on Nov, 14 2009 @ 01:21 AM
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reply to post by Sestias
 



Hm. I wonder if this is the Friday news bomb? The jury is out till Saturday, when one can make a good summation of the current news.

The adminstrations stance on amnesty has been no huge secret at all. In fact, stating that illegals will not be allowed to use government insurance is mostly true, because most of them will be legalized in the 5 years it takes (if the bill passes the senate and is signed into law) for them to tax us to death before the coverage actually begins.

I will keep this one on my list as a possibility, though!



posted on Nov, 14 2009 @ 01:46 AM
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Don't we try this before. All we got was a new batch of illegals.
Immigration Reform and Control Act of 1986

Any new immigration legalization plan MUST contain a total ban on further illegals and future legal status for the next wave of illegals that will fallow when they find out that America is soft on illegals.

It must also make strict laws and punishments for companies that hire illegals.
Including seizure of the company after they have been caught 3 times knowingly hiring over 5% of there workforce with illegals and a court appointed administrator to run the company till the share holders vote in a new management for the company.
Oh and seizure of all the out standing shares of stock held by any of the old management involved in hiring illegals. That way they can not use these shares to take back the company.
All non stock companies would be seized and sold at auction and the owner/s banned from starting new companies for ten years.

All companies that are caught should after the 2ed time being caught be forced to pay all employees Bacon Davis wages to all legal employees for a year.

This would take away all advantages from hiring illegal



posted on Nov, 14 2009 @ 01:56 AM
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Interesting..so what about notifying homeland security or ICE, if yuo do know of ilelgas at yuor work place? has anyone ever done this? and the ramifications fo doing so? aka comapnys resoponse snad revenge on you if yuo do so?



posted on Nov, 14 2009 @ 07:48 AM
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The Latino and Hispanic vote has generally gone 2 to 1 in favour of the democrats if I remember correctly. You shouldn't discount this as a possible extra motivation for them to get this pushed through. A potential extra 8 million votes would be a nice bonus for the Democrats.



posted on Nov, 14 2009 @ 02:23 PM
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Originally posted by Libertygal

The adminstrations stance on amnesty has been no huge secret at all. In fact, stating that illegals will not be allowed to use government insurance is mostly true, because most of them will be legalized in the 5 years it takes (if the bill passes the senate and is signed into law) for them to tax us to death before the coverage actually begins.


If they're legal they'll be paying their fair share of taxes. Now, a lot of illegals are already paying into Social Security (using a fake number, but paying into it nevertheless) and also pay their fair share of sales and other taxes.



posted on Nov, 14 2009 @ 02:30 PM
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reply to post by ANNED
 


At least parts of your plan could work, IMO. But the fact remains that illegal workers are cheaper and easier to control than native born ones, so many employers go to great lengths to get around all laws and a lot of them are very successful at it.



posted on Nov, 14 2009 @ 02:38 PM
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reply to post by Sestias
 


Two things to consider here:

1. If you legalize them, they fall under the legislative control of the US. So, you know who they are, where they live etc. The US wants to have a record of the people who are living and working in this country because of reasons of national security, crime etc.

2. Complaining that these illegal immigrants take away American jobs and that companies will prefer to take them as cheep labor doesn't stick. The largest corporations in the US undertake FDI to access cheep labor in developing nations. So, the American worker is out of the equation even before an illegal immigrant can get this job. Unskilled lobar always gets consumed where the labor prices are the lowest. So, if you fear anyone destroying job opportunities, then it's the multinational corporations not the illegal immigrant.



posted on Nov, 14 2009 @ 03:19 PM
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reply to post by thegreatobserver
 

I agree that the multinationals are more responsible for the exploitation of labor worldwide than firms that hire illegals here in the U.S.

It will always be the objective of big business to get the cheapest and most docile labor force anywhere in the world.

The labor unions were successful in raising wages and improving working conditions here in the U.S. in the mid 20th century, but they cannot control the multinationals now.

The question still remains, though, of whether or not we should legalize certain segments of the illegal labor pool. Right now they are threatening the jobs of some native-born workers (usually those at the lower end of the wage scale) and it seems a valid argument that we could reduce some of the competition by legalizing some of them.

The companies can always move their operations to Mexico, where the labor is even cheaper and and more easy to manipulate.

It might not be a long-time fix, but I see the wisdom in legalizing some illegal workers.



posted on Nov, 14 2009 @ 03:32 PM
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I watched an interesting segment on how the illegal force just may save social security.

If you give the illegal sector work visas and have them pay social security, they usually intend to only work for 10-20 years to gather enough money to survive at home. So they pay into social security but never draw on it.

By at least giving them permission to work here, you can actually have a cash cow, as many plan on returning to their native lands.

So the answer isn't legalization, but work access.

And they pay SS just in case they stay. They pay taxes to pay for the system.

Then you also take the criminality out of it and you don't find bodies all across the desert and girls are not being sold into sex slavery and someone isn't paying thier meager life savings to be dumped in the desert by a coyote.

[edit on 14-11-2009 by nixie_nox]



posted on Nov, 15 2009 @ 05:11 PM
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reply to post by Sestias
 


It ultimately helps the American worker to legalize a lot of current aliens.


It absolutely does no such thing. All it does is legitimize an unlawful employment arrangement. How many other unlawful things that employers' do should be overlooked to "help" Americans?.

Removing the "illegal" stigma from such employment will not change anything for the American already out of work. If an illegal is already employed, what will changing his status do? Nothing, except guarantee continued work.


With such a large pool of cheap illegal labor, employers can get away with paying less than the minimum wage, thereby reducing the market for American workers.


An employer willing to pay less than minimum can pay Americans such a wage just as easily as an illegal alien. What difference does place of birth make to the employer as long as a worker will take what he's offering?


Besides being cheaper, illegals can be easily abused and manipulated because who are they going to complain to -- the authorities?


Why? Are they dumber, weaker? The ACLU, LULAC, MALDEF, National Council of La Raza, and the UFW, and Legal Aid (Texas Rural Legal Aid, in Texas) among many other groups, already stand up for the rights of ill-treated workers, ESPECIALLY migrants and illegals!

Such a sick, shallow, xenophobic position reflects either paternalism or worse.. I'd call it pure racism, but "Hispanic" is not a race; it is an origin, nationality or culture. Your attitude is shallow and sick

What makes you think that an illegal alien in the 21st century doesn't know how to help him or her self?


American employees have rights and privileges, like overtime and unemployment, that employers don't need to respect or provide if they can get their work done for less money and hassle.


Exactly! So if an American is willing to permit such conduct, then it's OK with you? What about the chronically unemployed who will take ANY job under ANY circumstances?

The focus here should be on the employers themselves, if you're truly worried about emploment abuse.

But you're not; you're pontificating for a failed, flawed outlook.


Legalizing (and therefore reducing) the competition creates a more level playing field for American workers.


How? "legalizing the competition" ADDS 12 MILLION "competitors" for the limited job supply. How does adding 12 million "reduce" competition?
How does that help an American worker?

That is deluded, illogical and a non sequitur.

Deny Ignorance.

jw



posted on Nov, 15 2009 @ 05:24 PM
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Come on folks,
This isn't even close to being news.
Wait until they hear that the government will be granting illegals amnesties and perks to turn in all of their former employers, it'll be a stampede to get north of the border and every landscaper that ever hired an illegal will have ten more behind them claiming to have worked for him too.

The small businesses will end up paying back taxes, social security, medicare, insurance benefits, heavy fines possibly losing their business and doing jail time.

I don't support hiring illegals but we'll lose even more jobs in the middle and lower brackets while the big money companies will have the clout to absorb the losses.

The illegals will be heavily subsidized and get full benefits and citizenship for breaking the law. That will be another 12 million "new"citizens who will now have the legal right to bring in their extended families to get onto the gravy train as well.

The actual job holding, taxpaying citizens who didn't break the law get to finance all of this mess.


Oh, yeah. It's true.
It's not a bad dream or an episode of the twilight zone, it's what politicians do when they have a mandate.



[edit on 15-11-2009 by badgerprints]



posted on Nov, 16 2009 @ 12:11 AM
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reply to post by jdub297
 

I'm advocating making a segment of illegal aliens legal.

That means I want them here.

How can you deduce that that's xenophobic?

Also, illegal workers of all nationalities typically put up with worse treatment than Americans. This is not only true of Hispanic illegal aliens.

Yes, there are organizations, including labor unions, that devote themselves to improving wages and working conditions for all labor. But it is not easy for a person who is here illegally to access them. For example, an illegal cannot testify in court against an employer without coming under a great deal of scrutiny and possible deportation.


[edit on 16-11-2009 by Sestias]



posted on Nov, 16 2009 @ 12:46 AM
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IN the shrot run. this is what goes through my head..how many layoffs have affected LEGAL law abiding tax paying since birth citizens? Now, estimated 12 million illgals made legal, who skimped out on paying thier due fees while here illegaly, and get such royal carpet sympathy to be made lega, per the governemnt...
thats 12 million AMERICAN jobs gone. Unions? not many retauil places have unions...so they can keep hiring illegals.
Look, my mother was born in Austria, 1947..came ot america, Ellis island around 1952. Signed her name in a book their, and wa made a citizen that quick. That was the 1950's when th worlds population wasnt as great or traveling. TOday....its 10 times that..and everybody travels. This is like doing awy with borderrs, so to speak so anyone can just come waltzing in..and taking jobs, people born here should have had first stakes on first.
Obama seems to advocate free work, capped salarys of executives..i kinda suspect obama favors cheap underpaid labor...



posted on Nov, 16 2009 @ 01:23 AM
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This administration won’t even call illegal immigrants, illegal, they are undocumented workers. So this shouldn’t surprise anyone.

@ Sestias, you commented on the “large pool of cheap illegal labor” if you make all 12 million illegal, legal. Then you have made the minimal wage pool, 12 million larger. How does that help, follow the laws and punish the people who hire illegal. If the 12 million people don’t have jobs then they will leave and then that would help the America worker.



posted on Nov, 16 2009 @ 12:06 PM
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reply to post by thinline
 


The point is there are AREADY millions of undocumented workers getting less than minimum wage and in many cases working under terrible or unsafe conditions. They are doing jobs that no American will take, as well as some they would. If they cause them any trouble their employers can always report them to the immigration authorities.

According to Arianna Huffington:


The nonpartisan National Research Council estimates that low-skilled immigrants contribute as much as $10 BILLION to the U.S. economy every year.
("Right is Wrong" p. 237)


The people who profit most from illegal labor are the American employers, in many cases people like you and me, who hire maids, gardeners, etc. at less than minimum wage and with no benefits.

These employers are seldom the target of Americans' outrage, though, the undocumented workers are. The illegal aliens are favorite political scapegoats, largely because they cannot vote or buy a politician.

The vast majority of the 12 million illegal immigrants who would be given amnesty are hard-working, tax-paying individuals who are willing to start at the bottom of the wage and status scale. They would make good citizens.

Yes, they do compete with Americans, mainly for low-paid jobs at minimum wage, but again, they work at less than that, and many Americans won't take those jobs at that pay anyway. If these workers were legalized they could have the legal and political clout to advocate for the minimum wage and other benefits, making the playing field at least equal with Americans who are looking for the same jobs

I hope I've explained my position clearly now.



posted on Nov, 16 2009 @ 03:48 PM
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Originally posted by Libertygal
reply to post by Sestias
 

The adminstrations stance on amnesty has been no huge secret at all. In fact, stating that illegals will not be allowed to use government insurance is mostly true, because most of them will be legalized in the 5 years it takes (if the bill passes the senate and is signed into law) for them to tax us to death before the coverage actually begins.


One thing you overlook is that in any "pubic" program it is unlawful to discriminate on the basis of status or origin. The Constitution protects "persons," not citizens.

Any limits Obama or Congress claim to place on a "public option" cannot legally be centered on citizenship status. They would be unconstitutionally discriminatory if limited to "citizens."

THEY LIE.

Deny ignorance.

jw



posted on Nov, 16 2009 @ 03:56 PM
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Originally posted by Sestias
reply to post by ANNED
 
...
many employers go to great lengths to get around all laws and a lot of them are very successful at it.


Then why focus on the workers, legal or not? The crux of the problem is employers who flout the law.

If they don't care about the law to begin with, SSN verification, Id. verification, minimum wage, OSHA, et c., make no difference, do they? Neither does nationality.

Instead of the straw man "many employers," name names. Otherwise, you post only speculation and opinion.

Deliver facts; act on them.

jw



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