A Creator - Who?, page 3
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reply posted on 13-11-2009 @ 09:31 PM by Nosred
reply to post by Nosred



Okay, here's how they know dark matters real. According to laws of gravity the more mass something has in the universe the faster it will move, right? Well we've that all of the galaxies in the universe don't have enough mass to account for how fast they're going. So either there's a lot of invisible matter (dark matter) in these galaxies or what we know about gravity is wrong.


reply posted on 13-11-2009 @ 09:36 PM by np6888
reply to post by Nosred



I don't remember anything about gravity and the more mass an object has, the faster it moves. If anything, things with less mass move faster. Do you mean the more mass it has, the more "force" it exerts?


reply posted on 13-11-2009 @ 10:40 PM by K-Raz
reply to post by np6888



Well, if you knew anything, you would know the person you quoted got the two mixed up.

The faster you go, the more energy you have, and that makes mass more or less.

Educate youself


reply posted on 13-11-2009 @ 11:38 PM by The Matrix Traveller
reply to post by Nosred



So either there's a lot of invisible matter (dark matter) in these galaxies or what we know about gravity is wrong.


It may be the latter ????

what we know about gravity is wrong


There is more to it.... That is of what we know (which is very little)


reply posted on 13-11-2009 @ 11:46 PM by ELECTRICkoolaidZOMBIEtest
reply to post by saima




wow. what a meaningful contribution. we can quote people all day and that wont get us anywhere.

also.
you seem to be wrong with it.
A little philosophy inclineth man's mind to atheism, but depth in philosophy bringeth men's minds about to religion.
Francis Bacon
www.brainyquote.com...
it doesnt say that thinking leads one to being religious. it says in depth philosophy leads to thinking about religion.

so way to fail at quote mining and being useful for discussion in this thread.
congrats on promoting ignorance instead of denying it.
but quotes (and misquotes) wont get us anywhere

nosred. i know that dark matter is predicted because of all of the gravity that is there that isnt supposed to be. im just trying to express that...dark matter is a complete mystery. us knowing about it is the product of needing a reason to explain all of the gravity. proving it would probably be difficult its effects can be detected, but dark matter cannot be detected directly. however, if you DO have a reason for this as you stated earlier, im all ears.




[edit on 14-11-2009 by ELECTRICkoolaidZOMBIEtest]


reply posted on 14-11-2009 @ 02:13 AM by np6888
reply to post by K-Raz



So you're refering to relativistic mass? That has little to do with gravity. In fact, if you think you know so much, then explain how that and dark matter are related.

[edit on 14-11-2009 by np6888]


reply posted on 14-11-2009 @ 03:15 AM by np6888
reply to post by chiron613



Something can come from nothing(of course, we still need to define what something is, for all we know, it may still be nothing.) If we were to assume that the universe came from nothing, then one would still expect everything to be chaotic. At the very least, all the atoms would go on their merry ways, instead of "curving space" around themselves and then come together. That just can't be a "natural" process.



reply posted on 14-11-2009 @ 03:22 AM by np6888
reply to post by Nosred



After reading around a little bit, it appears that the non-existence of dark matter would falsify Newton's definition of gravity. In which case, I ask, what's the problem? To me, Newton's gravity and Einstein's can't co-exist.

Now I know that Newton's theory of gravity has been used to build rockets. However, the force could just be the force between the energy and the curved space, and Newton's equation just happens to give the same number.


reply posted on 14-11-2009 @ 04:47 AM by np6888
reply to post by Nosred



Anyway, dark matter is defined as something that exerts a gravitational force, but not the nuclear or the electromagnetic force. Well, what I've learned about the term gravitational force(field) is that it basically means to exist within space-(time)(for example, matter is defined as something that has mass and occupies space, mass is defined as "something" that exerts a gravitational field. In other words, in order for "something"(energy, which could be said to be nothing) to become "something more solid"(matter), it has to exert this force and occupies space.

Now energy itself doesn't occupy space, therefore, in order for it to exist and qualify as matter, it has to exert this force, by curving the space around it around itself. When it does, it now "becomes" matter(when in fact, it's still just energy "mixed" with space) and "occupies" space. In other words, energy turning into matter is basically energy that exists outside of space-(time) turning into energy that exists within space-(time), by exerting a force to space.

Essentially, the gravitational force or "curved space-time" force is the "default" force, in order for any type of energy to exist within space-(time). Since it doesn't interact with the other three forces, this must mean that either its structure is entirely different, or that it exists simply as (dark) energy, providing the force(or "mass," remember, mass can basically be defined as energy that exerts a gravitational force) for the galaxies by curving around itself, without needing to form any fundamental particles.


reply posted on 14-11-2009 @ 04:57 AM by ELECTRICkoolaidZOMBIEtest
reply to post by np6888



newtons theory of gravity is highly flawed, but still extremely useful.
it works really well as a sort of rule of thumb for every day things, but once you start getting into the huge, the small, and other unusual things its inaccuracy become more and more glaring.
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