It looks like you're using an Ad Blocker.

Please white-list or disable AboveTopSecret.com in your ad-blocking tool.

Thank you.

 

Some features of ATS will be disabled while you continue to use an ad-blocker.

 

Saddam's underground tunnels

page: 1
0

log in

join
share:

posted on Feb, 23 2003 @ 02:43 PM
link   
now this is something i plan on watching tonight on 60 minutes

www.cbsnews.com...

i thought they had one of Saddams top bodygaurds held in Israel and was being questioned about the tunnel network ??




posted on Feb, 23 2003 @ 03:19 PM
link   
Propaganda!

We can't find it so it is hidden.

Seriously,If you believe a word that the Moronic American Administration says about the world then you are a moron yourself.



posted on Feb, 23 2003 @ 03:32 PM
link   
I now see the error of my beliefs and am forced to face the harsh facts of life..... I'm a moron!

I honestly DO believe that Saddam Hussein possesses and is hiding WMD.

Time and the allied forces, will tell whether I'll be vindicated and released from my current status of being considered a moron.

In the meantime,
all the best & cheers,
Deep

PS - did you happen to watch Correspondent on BBC 2 tonight? It showed more accounts of Mr. Hussein's savage tyranny against his own people.



posted on Feb, 23 2003 @ 03:36 PM
link   
Are his army of trained monkeys in there too? Ready to take over the world!!!!!!!!



posted on Feb, 23 2003 @ 04:29 PM
link   
Despite the fact that the city of Grozny was surrounded by Russian soldiers and continuously attacked. The rebels present in the city were able to keep getting resupplied. The battle lasted longer then it was possible for a city cut of from supplies, from the surface to continue fighting. Its apparent the supply line came
from underground.

To be honest what seems moronic is to imply that Iraq does not have tunnels or underground structures. And that the possibility exist that weapons are hidden there.

You can lead a horse to water, but you cannot make him drink and the same thing applies to chickens.



posted on Feb, 23 2003 @ 05:04 PM
link   
I read that both Chinese and Russian engineers assisted Saddam's other desert tunnel complexes according to his former bodyguard.

I find it interesting that one of Saddam's tunnel complexes has been reported in Tikrit, his home village. His former bodyguard said that the entrance to the tunnel complex is through a house about 1/2 mile from the actual complex itself. Most of his closest supporters and inner circle are either relatives or from Tikrit. What better place to hide his WMD stash then where it is surrounded by loyal followers who watch everything and everyone? Below are two reports regarding Mr. Hussein's tunnel building projects.

60 Minutes Story:

Plans for a Baghdad subway were used instead to build underground tunnels to hide Saddam Husseins weapons of mass destruction, says one of the Iraqi dictators former top scientists. Dr. Hussein Shahristani, once Iraqs top nuclear scientist, speaks to Steve Kroft for a 60 Minutes report to be broadcast Sunday, Feb. 23, at 7 p.m. ET/PT.

Shahristani says subway plans drawn up by several international firms were given to the Iraqi military. [Hussein] told his military, Well, we have these designs for the tunnels, go ahead and do them, but not for metro, for our weapons of mass destruction. We can hide them, move them around, he tells Kroft. Ive spoken to one person who has been in these tunnels, says Shahristani, We believe now it is more than 100 kilometers of very complex network, multi-layer tunnels.

Among the weapons Shahristani believes may be hidden in the tunnels are deadly agents like Sarin, possibly anthrax and also the nerve agent VX. The oily, sticky VX is what the former chemists contacts are telling him Hussein wants to use to form a chemical belt around Baghdad. VX will kill within a few minutes or a few seconds The lethal dose of it is one milligram. So nobody can escape and whoever wants to attack the city has to cross this chemical belt first and then enter into street fighting, says Shahristani.

The tunnels may also hide Hussein or provide an escape route for him. He actually has a tunnel that can withstand a nuclear blast and if he survives in the tunnel, he has won the war because, for him, winning the war means surviving it, Shahristani says.

________________________________________


No Prince Charming

Those who Saddam Hussein cannot kill, he must intimidate or deceive. Until he obtains nuclear weapons, he cannot deter those, such as America and Britain, who seek to contain or eliminate him. Since the 1991 Gulf War, his most effective weapon has been deception. He played cat and mouse with U.N. weapons inspectors for years, allowing them to search for his weapons of mass destruction on terms he knew would conceal the best and most powerful of them.

Sometimes, his deception was so crude that only willing dupes could possibly be taken in. Crudest of all was his claim to "sovereignty" in some 100-odd "presidential palaces," which the U.N. dutifully exempted from weapons inspections, despite the very obvious conflict with the "anywhere, any time" requirement of the 1991 disarmament resolutions.

U.N. debate on President Bush's proposed resolution on Iraq has dragged on for weeks, and resembles the Mad Hatter's tea party more each passing day. With the advent of the French and Russian counter-proposals, any effective U.N. action is a remote possibility at best. More likely, the United Nations will again accept Saddam's claims of "sovereignty, territorial integrity and political independence," meaning his palaces will again be off-limits to any weapons inspections. We dare not accept this result, because it's the same deception as before. Even the choice of the term palace is part of the deception.

To Americans, the word palace conjures images created by Walt Disney's smiling imagination. Last week, in discussion with Iraqi National Congress sources, I learned in detail how Saddam's palaces have precious little to do with crowns, princes and glass slippers. Some of the 100 or more sites do contain lavish residences, but they also are the primary locations of Saddam's weapons of mass destruction programs. They also house the headquarters of his Special Security Service and Special Republican Guard. Many of the sites cover 5 or 10 square miles, and are comprised of dozens of buildings. They are or should be the places that are either inspected most thoroughly, or placed at the top of every Air Force and Navy target list.

Consider just these few examples:

The main Baghdad "Presidential Complex" covers about 2 square kilometers, and about 15 or 20 buildings, including several palaces. One palace, Al-Seqoor ("the Eagle") houses a biological weapons lab called Al-Tahaddi, "the Challenge." Like almost all of Saddam's weapons of mass destruction facilities, the Al-Tahaddi lab is underground. Unconfirmed reports say that the Al-Tahaddi lab is working on the Ebola and West Nile viruses, among others. Just west of there is the Al-Radwaniyeh compound, which covers about 9.3 square kilometers. Al-Radwaniyeh is used to store biological weapons of mass destruction and also has hardened bunkers for a large command and control facility.

Saddam's Special Republican Guard is responsible for concealing and using weapons of mass destruction. It comes under the command of the Special Security Service, which also controls the Mukhabarat secret police. The SSS headed by Saddam's son Qusay is headquartered in a building located in the Baghdad Presidential Compound, in the Al-Nisoor Square. On the map, it's in the Al-Kindi "neighborhood."

About 80 miles northwest of Baghdad is the city of Samarra. Just north of there is the Jabal Makhul Presidential Site. It's about 10 square miles in size with about 90 buildings. Jabal Makhul which means "under the mountain" is the home of Project 555, Saddam's uranium enrichment program. Located in the Al-Fajir site within the huge complex, Project 555 is working overtime shifts, trying to make fissile materials for nuclear weapons. According to my sources, it's also a favorite place to hide other weapons of mass destruction in a large complex of underground tunnels.

Many of Saddam's palace compounds have man-made lakes. These are built over the tunnels where WMD work is being done as a barrier to bombardment. Typical of this is the Al-Tharthar presidential site, about 150 miles north of Baghdad. It's about 2.5 square miles in size, and its large man-made lake sits above a tunnel complex housing weapons of mass destruction storage and possible production. Another is Saddam's favorite. His palace compound in his hometown of Tikrit is about 4 square kilometers in size. It has a large man-made lake built in 1991 that sits over another tunnel complex for weapons of mass destruction storage and research.

In total, there are about 1,000 buildings in Saddam's palace complexes. Many of them were destroyed in 1991 or in the 1998 air strikes. Most have been rebuilt, and some like the Tikrit site are constantly being expanded. If any new U.N. inspections fail to probe into every corner and underground tunnel in each of them and not when the Iraqis know they're coming or block the inspectors' entry they may as well not be done at all.

Link - www.washtimes.com...



posted on Feb, 23 2003 @ 06:41 PM
link   
Just watched the 60 minutes article, what was presented is that Iraq did build a subway system.
But it never designed entrances for people to use it in relation to mass transit. It also said that the UN knows about this but can't find the entrances.

It also said that an American contractor had the plans related to the original design but at present those plans are the property of the US Government.

Sounds to me like something the UN should place more emphasis on. In fact it sound like something the UN should have addressed when this mess began.



posted on Feb, 23 2003 @ 08:08 PM
link   
Something just doesn't add up for me here. I'm personally convinced that Saddam is as guilty as sin, and can't understand why he's not being fully exposed. I can't understand how news agencies can report about hidden underground complexes & tunnel systems - and that evidence wasn't included in Colin Powels UN report. Why is the US Administration being so coy about exposing what Saddam has and where it's hidden?

Is it possible that Saddam has secretly threatened to blow his entire WMD stockpiles, if the U.S. comes for him? Now that there are a few bus loads of anti-war pacifists in Baghdad, it appears even more complicated.

I watched a great documentary on BBC 4 called Afghan Warrior. Part of it showed how badly the CIA mis-managed the Afghan campaign by overlooking / ignoring Abdul Haq, who had united almost every tribe and faction that wasnt with the Taliban and was ready to support the U.S. effort. The CIA paid off various warlords instead, believing them to be loyal and trustworthy. Those were the same warlords that later manipulated the CIA & US military by accusing their rivals of being Al Quieda and getting them bombed by U.S. jets.

The CIA had made no contingency plan for securing the back door of Afghanistan into Pakistan, even though they knew that OBL had many connections there. They basically left the Tora Bora Mountains wide open as an escape route for OBL and his remaining followers. Even though they knew that Al Quieda had numerous caves & tunnels there with weapons caches. The border was supposed to be secured against OBLs escape by the Pakistanis but they obviously didnt get it done.

I just dont understand the military stupidity of those decisions. I would have had a couple of divisions & Special Forces supported by Apaches and A1 Abrams just inside the Afghan border with Pakistan. Id have been there waiting for OBL to show his white turban. I just dont understand how they could have left the back door open like that.

OK - Im done now,
Deep



posted on Feb, 24 2003 @ 01:49 PM
link   
Its the difference between war and annihilation/ genocide, keep in mind Deepwaters that yes that could have been done and at present there would probably be no Taliban tribes. Today there is no Taliban army but there are Taliban tribes. And yes its possible that one-day we may have to fight them again. And if that happens when it is over there will again be no Taliban army but there will still exist Taliban Tribes.



posted on Feb, 24 2003 @ 02:55 PM
link   


Something just doesn't add up for me here. I'm personally convinced that Saddam is as guilty as sin, and can't understand why he's not being fully exposed. I can't understand how news agencies can report about hidden underground complexes & tunnel systems - and that evidence wasn't included in Colin Powels UN report. Why is the US Administration being so coy about exposing what Saddam has and where it's hidden?

I was listening to an ex-CIA agent who was talking about Saddam and why the US is not throwing all the evidence at the UN.The main reason is they do not want Saddam to start moving his WMD's.We know where they are at ,and want to take them out. Saddam may well launch all of his WMD's,so if there is an attack the CIA and Special Forces will try to take them out.



posted on Feb, 25 2003 @ 10:43 AM
link   
I didn't mean to call anybody a moron(apart from Bush).I just get fed up with lots of innuendo and no proof.There may well be tunnels let's face it Baghdad would be the only capital city in the world without tunnels.I can see the army showing CNN around them now(in my minds eye)"We think the WMD's were here until they were moved shortly before we invaded"some major will tell us.And that will be considered proof by half the world eager to be reassured that Bush isn't a moron.

My guess is that some chemical and biological weapons are lying in a hole in the desert near the Iranian border in a location very few know of and when the attack starts someone will contact Bin Laden and terrorist will have WMD's.That is Saddam's deterent also his revenge and that is why attacking Iraq increases the chance of a terrorist attack with these weapons it does not stop it.



posted on Feb, 25 2003 @ 11:04 AM
link   

Originally posted by John bull 1
My guess is that some chemical and biological weapons are lying in a hole in the desert near the Iranian border in a location very few know of and when the attack starts someone will contact Bin Laden and terrorist will have WMD's.That is Saddam's deterent also his revenge and that is why attacking Iraq increases the chance of a terrorist attack with these weapons it does not stop it.


Highly unlikely, ever since the end of GW1, the US has had constant surveillance over Iraq ( Satellites, J-Stars etc). If they moved weapons then the US would know where they are.
Anyway how would the terrroists get in and out of Iraq, especially through areas not controlled by Saddam.



posted on Feb, 25 2003 @ 11:48 AM
link   
First off: let me say thanks to John bull1, I never thought you meant anything disrespectful you were emotionally charged about something that you believe strongly in. I may disagree with some of your opinions, but Ill always fight for your right, to have and say them.

I'm convinced that the U.S. intelligence community has been keeping Iraq under scrutiny by various means. I believe we know almost everything that Saddam has, where it's hidden and how it's defended.

If we were to expose Saddam's secrets, we'd in effect be pulling his covers of pseudo-security, that could psychologically overwhelm him and cause him to resort to some rash & destructive response - which, we don't want. Also, tight security requires not giving away how much we actually know.

From the start of recent hostilities with Iraq, Mr. Bush has appeared confidently sure that Saddam is hiding WMD. Recent reports that WMD are being developed & stored in tunnels under man made lakes, makes sense to me. I saw one of those lake development sites, surrounded by new homes on TV. I never suspected that the lake may conceal a WMD tunnel complex. I must admit that Mr. Hussein is a very clever person, fortunately, not clever enough.

However the allied forces do this job, theyll have to be quick as lightening and as precise as a surgeon.

I wish them wisdom and strength,
Deep



posted on Feb, 25 2003 @ 03:41 PM
link   
I disagree Deep.UN backing may not be essential to the USA but it would make prosecuting this war a lot easier.If the USA had information as to where weapons were being stored then at least one totally damning piece of information would of been given to the UN.It is unthinkable that the USA would with hold one piece of information and allow the UN and NATO to be split and his closest allies to be bereft of support at home.I think Bush is a moron but he's not that big a moron.
As for the satellites.Yes they may be able to see large weapons being transported but a barrel of toxic chemicals that could just as well be fuel in an oil country?How about a thermos flask of Anthrax,Ebola,or Smallpox?The Americans are good but not that good.



posted on Feb, 26 2003 @ 10:49 PM
link   
John Bull 1 I find your arguments to be of value and by what I am about to say. Am not saying that your intent is not in the right place. I am simply presenting an issue, which should be taken into consideration in respect to this matter (Please take it in that light).

What is relevant to this conversation is that every piece of information relevant to the war effort. Does not need to be presented to the press. AS far as the UN and NATO its apparent they are not idiots so why have they not made the data public? Could it be because they themselves are not prepared to discuss publicly issues related to a strategic response?

In my last post I presented the issue of Grozny, someone was apparently supplying them. That being correct these tunnels could be much more elaborate than is conceived. Money not spent on civilian access was spent on designing tunnels, which actually left the country (Iraq). As a reuslt there is no knowing to what extent this system of tunnels in actuality do have access to. They could in acuality reach locations deep in Russian territory (beyond Grozny).



posted on Aug, 21 2004 @ 04:49 PM
link   
Well did we ever find these tunnels
? I remember all the news reports about these tunnels, yet well over a year after the war, I have never seen any reports of the massive tunnels that were supposed to be in Bagdad etc..? Maybe he moved the tunnels to Seria also?

X



[edit on 21-8-2004 by Xeven]



new topics

top topics



 
0

log in

join