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What (Really) Killed The Helpless US Military Victims At Ft. Hood.

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posted on Nov, 13 2009 @ 09:36 PM
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Why is this in the survival forum?


Islamophobia invades the survival forum eh?

Surviving Islam?

I discovered my survival instinct several weeks back... Just before bleeding to death I wanted to sleep, pass out, but I was too thirsty... That thirst saved me.

Rest assured, that when America falls it will not be Islam that brought her down.


Your enemies are within your ranks.




posted on Nov, 14 2009 @ 03:54 AM
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reply to post by bsbray11
 


Agreed - but I think it would be a little unwise to pretend that anybody has been "liberated" - that has not been the purpose of the wars.

The purpose has been oil and economics and power. The usual things.

My point was that you can't go around murdering people in foreign countries - as I said before, man, woman and child (that's what soldiers do) and not expect some of that hate to come back at you.

As I said - noboby has been "liberated".

Edit - I agree with the previous poster - why is this in the survival forum???


[edit on 14-11-2009 by Stanton Dowd]



posted on Nov, 14 2009 @ 01:58 PM
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Originally posted by Stanton Dowd
reply to post by bsbray11
 




Edit - I agree with the previous poster - why is this in the survival forum???


[edit on 14-11-2009 by Stanton Dowd]



"responsibility goes to whomever was in overall command of Ft. Hood. They are also responsible for the deaths of the victims by denying soldiers the very human right of self defense. A right, incidentally, that is recognized as soon as one leaves the gates of the fort and enters the land of Texas. What might have happened had Hasan's first intended victim been armed with an M9? How many innocents might have been saved had Hasan been shot to the ground between his "Allah Akbar" and his first shot?"

What is your view of survival? Is it being dropped in the wilderness like bear grylls and living out some rambo fantasy? Danger lies in the mundane day to day situations that you find yourself in. Are you ever going to be air dropped in the outback of Australia or in Antarctica? Chances are slim to none. Could you be a victim of a violent crime and be forced into a situation where you're not able to defend yourself like these soldiers were?

Because if the soldiers had been armed , most of them would/should have survived. It doesn't matter if you're in a convenience store hold up , a home invasion or on a military base , you should have the right to carry a firearm and protect yourself. If you think It's the job of the police to protect you you're sadly mistaken... It's their job to write up reports and arrest who killed you. It is YOUR job to protect yourself.



posted on Nov, 14 2009 @ 02:03 PM
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Originally posted by Walkswithfish
Why is this in the survival forum?


Islamophobia invades the survival forum eh?

Surviving Islam?

I discovered my survival instinct several weeks back... Just before bleeding to death I wanted to sleep, pass out, but I was too thirsty... That thirst saved me.

Rest assured, that when America falls it will not be Islam that brought her down.


Your enemies are within your ranks.

I have no problem with Islam , I have a problem with Muslim extremists who yell "Allahu Akbar" and kill unarmed soldiers in my country while performing Jihad. Don't get wrapped up in emotion , look at the facts... it is what it is. My argument is that the soldiers should have been armed. Most of you have turned this into Islam Vs Team America.






posted on Nov, 14 2009 @ 02:10 PM
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Originally posted by EyesWideShut


I have no problem with Islam , I have a problem with Muslim extremists who yell "Allahu Akbar" and kill unarmed soldiers in my country while performing Jihad. Don't get wrapped up in emotion , look at the facts... it is what it is. My argument is that the soldiers should have been armed. Most of you have turned this into Islam Vs Team America.


Your user-name is nearly as convincing as your post.


The problem you don't have is that you have taken the media portrayal of this event... Hook line and sinker!

Allahu Akbar!

Look at the facts indeed... with your eyes wide shut!





posted on Nov, 14 2009 @ 02:18 PM
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Originally posted by Stanton Dowd
To the OP...

You seem to have forgotten the fact that the US is involved and is indeed the main instigator of the invasion of other peoples countries.

Under the 'guise of the "war on terror" the US is the single most agressive nation on the planet - blindly advancing the power of capitalism by the only means they know - war.

Maybe this is what sparked the lunatic off that did the massacre.

Maybe the "little men" are getting p*ssed off with the situation.

It is ok after all for the US to go into other people's countries and slaughter man woman and child?

Slaughter innocent people?

I think that all nations on the earth should remember that if you want peace you don't go to war.

And if you're going to start a fight you've got to expect to get punched.

TPTB could stop war if they wanted and don't kid yourself of anything else - anything else is excuses.

Peace.



[edit on 13-11-2009 by Stanton Dowd]

[edit on 13-11-2009 by Stanton Dowd]




What does that have to do with allowing soldiers to be armed per the 2nd amendment?

1st off I'm prior military , 2nd this thread has nothing to do with political views , pro bush pro obama ,left vs right, conservative vs liberal 2 party bs. War on terror , bay of pigs , Vietnam... the military industrial complex or foreign policy. no I don't think it's ok to kill innocent civilians and impose our will on other countries rape ,kill ,pillage and burn their villages down while eating their babies. I'm not a "Nuke em all and let God sort em out" guy. What bothers me is the fact that. It's about what happened and how it can be prevented in the future. Personally If you put any armed person in a target rich environment of unarmed individuals , you will have mass casualties. Repeat the same scenario but allow those individuals to be armed. I promise you you will have less casualties. Thus increasing SURVIVABILITY.



posted on Nov, 14 2009 @ 02:20 PM
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Originally posted by EyesWideShut

The last responsibility in a long chain of culpability is Hasan himself. The spear point of a Fifth Column alive, and well, and thriving in America. Allowed to thrive because of an ever-present fear by Americans of being called a racist, or intolerant. A terror shared even more intensely by every poor brow-beaten government worker in fear of their career.


Indeed...I think it's time we knew who the enemy was and locked them up, for their own good as well as ours. Just herd up anyone who professes to be Muslim...and anybody that looks like them, just to be sure.

It won't happen overnight, so why don't we make them wear green stars on their clothing, so they don't go sneaking around on us. Make sure they register with the police so that we can keep track of them. And if they continue to give us a hard time...well, there are solutions.

How about that for a novel concept to ensure the public safety from the enemy within...the fifth column?

Oh, wait...it's been tried before.



posted on Nov, 14 2009 @ 02:30 PM
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Originally posted by Walkswithfish


Your user-name is nearly as convincing as your post.


The problem you don't have is that you have taken the media portrayal of this event... Hook line and sinker!

Allahu Akbar!

Look at the facts indeed... with your eyes wide shut!




No I look at the Facts.... There's no conspiracy. Violence happens.

The facts are He IS Muslim
He DID Yell "Allahu Akbar" before he started shooting American Soldiers.

Unsubstantiated reports are that he had ties to Anwar al-Awlaki. Visited the same Mosque as the 9/11 suspects.

"A post on the website scribd.com credited to a writer named NidalHasan compares suicide bombers to soldiers who jump on grenades in order to save the lives of fellow officers. NidalHasan claims that both are sacrificing their lives for a noble cause."

I suppose He's just some random guy or Manchurian candidate that just happened to be Muslim and randomly yelled a phrase that is commonly used before performing Jihad. The difference between me and you is I look at both sides of the story , I look at the facts and I weigh them and my decision is based on FACTS not rhetoric. You can be use snark and emoticons but what I've yet to see from you are facts to support your view. What do you think happened? I would like your FACT based opinion on this matter.



posted on Nov, 14 2009 @ 02:43 PM
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Originally posted by JohnnyCanuck



Indeed...I think it's time we knew who the enemy was and locked them up, for their own good as well as ours. Just herd up anyone who professes to be Muslim...and anybody that looks like them, just to be sure.


"At Fort Hood and beyond, a great many soldiers are angry that superiors knew of the Major's Islamist rumblings yet refrained from intervening. That kind of probing intervention was, ironically, the job of a psychiatrist. In the Army, as in civilian life, we take infinite care to be inclusive, to allay the disaffections of minorities. We do not ask them why their families are here of all places.This is especially true of the U.S. military, an institution as color-blind, meritocratic and humane as no other genuinely fighting force in the world."

-Melik Kaylan

Read rest of atricle here

Thanks for adding sarcasm yet little of substance to the debate. Simple things like thorough Background Checks if someone seems like they should be flagged , maybe they should be investigated further. When I got my Background Check my friends were investigated and they even spoke with my high school teachers. Now AFTER the fact we find out that... OOPS , maybe this guy should have been kept a better eye on. I'd rather be Pro-active than Re-active.

[edit on 14-11-2009 by EyesWideShut]



posted on Nov, 14 2009 @ 03:37 PM
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Originally posted by EyesWideShut
Thanks for adding sarcasm yet little of substance to the debate.


It wasn't me that cited the shooter as 'the spearpoint of a 5th column in America'. That implies organization. It seems apparent that he was a lone nut...they do happen, eh? That kind of fear mongering gets the mob riled up, and innocents die that way too.

Simply holding up a mirror.



posted on Nov, 14 2009 @ 04:50 PM
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Originally posted by JohnnyCanuck


It wasn't me that cited the shooter as 'the spearpoint of a 5th column in America'. That implies organization. It seems apparent that he was a lone nut...they do happen, eh? That kind of fear mongering gets the mob riled up, and innocents die that way too.

Simply holding up a mirror.


I didn't cite the shooter as "The spearpoint of a 5th Column in America" The Author "Gabe Suarez" did. but... as I stated before.

The facts are, He IS Muslim
He DID Yell "Allahu Akbar" before he started shooting American Soldiers.

Unsubstantiated reports are that he had ties to Anwar al-Awlaki. Visited the same Mosque as the 9/11 suspects.

"A post on the website scribd.com credited to a writer named NidalHasan compares suicide bombers to soldiers who jump on grenades in order to save the lives of fellow officers. NidalHasan claims that both are sacrificing their lives for a noble cause."

5th Column

There is no fear mongering , simply sticking your head in the sand doesn't make a problem disappear. There is No mob , and no one but you is talking about anyone dying , as far as innocents dying...well that has sort of happened already.

* Denial (this isn't happening to me!)
* Anger (why is this happening to me?)
* Bargaining (I promise I'll be a better person if...)
* Depression (I don't care anymore)
* Acceptance (I'm ready for whatever comes)

Once you get past the 1st step you'll be well on your way...



posted on Nov, 14 2009 @ 05:31 PM
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reply to post by EyesWideShut
 


What does it matter that he's muslim?

I'm not muslim but I know a few and they are JUST PEOPLE - some are nice and some are not so nice.

I also have a very close friend in Fort Hood - and though he is my friend, he and his wife are completely deluded by "Christianity".

They talk as though this war waging is done in God's name too.

Are they not a couple of nutters too?

Religious nutters that think it's ok for the american military to go round conquering the world???

They make themselves feel better about the slaughter by going to church and praying and pretending that they are doing "work" in "God's" name...

There are nut cases on both sides of the war.

Shame they don't realise that they're just doing the dirty work for the power-freaks in the suits!

Come on! Wake up!!!!




posted on Nov, 14 2009 @ 06:14 PM
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Originally posted by EyesWideShut
I didn't cite the shooter as "The spearpoint of a 5th Column in America" The Author "Gabe Suarez" did.


And given that his piece is the thesis behind your original post...I quote you in saying :
"This is from a thread on another forum by Gabe Suarez about the tragedy at Ft. Hood. I can't say I don't agree with him. "

Then it's a little disingenuous to try and create some distance from him now.


Unsubstantiated reports are that he had ties to Anwar al-Awlaki. Visited the same Mosque as the 9/11 suspects...
There is no fear mongering , simply sticking your head in the sand doesn't make a problem disappear. There is No mob , and no one but you is talking about anyone dying


Hmm...other seem to find the potential for trouble worrisome:

FORT HOOD BACKLASH UNFAIRLY TARGETS MUSLIM SERVICE MEMBERS
In the coming weeks, as the investigation continues and members of Congress pounce on an incendiary issue, Obama will need to pointedly address a worrisome tendency to smear all Muslims with the misdeeds of a few. Already, conservative talk shows and Web sites have indulged the impulses of assorted "experts" who claim that Hasan's murderous spree shows the dangers of Islam.

Bryan Fischer, an official with the ultra-conservative American Family Association, called for the U.S. military to "stop the practice of allowing Muslims to serve."

Fischer went on to acknowledge that "most U.S. Muslims don't shoot up their fellow soldiers. Fine. As soon as Muslims give us a foolproof way to identify their jihadis from their moderates, we'll go back to allowing them to serve." news.yahoo.com...


* Denial (this isn't happening to me!)
* Anger (why is this happening to me?)
* Bargaining (I promise I'll be a better person if...)
* Depression (I don't care anymore)
* Acceptance (I'm ready for whatever comes)

Once you get past the 1st step you'll be well on your way...


I don't think it's me with my head in the sand denying that there may well be a backlash, and that it could get ugly.

So one merc from Blackwater shoots up a market, and all Americans should pay for it? Can't have it both ways.



posted on Nov, 14 2009 @ 06:27 PM
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reply to post by Stanton Dowd
 


If I hear the phrase "Wake up" again on this site , I'm gonna throw this monitor out the window. "wake up" is so cliche is should be banned. What exactly is it that I should "Wake up" from?... please elaborate. I wish people would read the entire thread and THEN post. I'm not repeating myself anymore. I have no problem with Muslims , as I've stated about 5 times... I have a problem with Islamic Fundamentalist extremists that yell "Allahu Akbar" and then kill people. If your friends from Ft. Hood left the US , were members of the Westboro Baptist Church went to Iran , joined the Islamic Republic of Iran Army, worked there for a few years , then decided to yell "Praise Jesus , Hail Mary & Hallelujah" and started killing Iranian soldiers. I would view them the same way. I'm sure the Iranians would say , no this isn't because they're part of some radical christian group , they're just nuts.



posted on Nov, 14 2009 @ 06:41 PM
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Originally posted by bsbray11

Originally posted by EyesWideShut
First off, Islam killed the victims at Ft. Hood. Islam is a cult of death and violence.


1/5 of the world's entire population is Muslim.

It has extremists, but trying to say 1/5 of the world's population is hell-bent on death and violence, simply because they are Muslim, is outright racist. And this isn't "pulling the race card," it's calling a spade a spade, outright.


The whole purpose of this thread is to apparently enrage people against Muslims worldwide for a single event carried out by a single extremist, in the face of over a billion people across the planet who practice this same religion peacefully.


Actually It was more along the lines of allowing troops to be armed on base to protect themselves per their 2nd ammendment rights so that this wouldn't happen in the future. (Thus why it was posted in survival) But It seems like you all are hell bent on turning this into Christians Vs Muslims thread.

To say that this man wasn't influenced by his religeon is assenine. Muslim is not a race btw so I don't know how it would be racist?.... This IS in their holy book though.

The Qur'an:


Sura (2:191-193) - "And slay them wherever ye find them, and drive them out of the places whence they drove you out, for persecution [of Muslims] is worse than slaughter [of non-believers]...and fight them until persecution is no more, and religion is for Allah." There is a good case to be made that the overall context of these verses is defensive war, however, there are two worrisome pieces to this passage. The first is that the killing of others is authorized in the event of "persecution." The second is that fighting may persist until "religion is for Allah."

Sura (2:244) - "Then fight in the cause of Allah, and know that Allah Heareth and knoweth all things."

Sura (3:151) - "Soon shall We cast terror into the hearts of the Unbelievers, for that they joined companions with Allah, for which He had sent no authority"

Sura (4:74) - "Let those fight in the way of Allah who sell the life of this world for the other. Whoso fighteth in the way of Allah, be he slain or be he victorious, on him We shall bestow a vast reward."

Sura (4:89) - "They but wish that ye should reject Faith, as they do, and thus be on the same footing (as they): But take not friends from their ranks until they flee in the way of Allah (From what is forbidden). But if they turn renegades, seize them and slay them wherever ye find them; and (in any case) take no friends or helpers from their ranks."

That sounds really peaceful to me...



posted on Nov, 14 2009 @ 06:46 PM
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reply to post by EyesWideShut
 


I never mentioned anything about "Christians vs. Muslims."


This guy was mentally unstable. He is on record as having been sent to counseling earlier for "unspecified" reasons and apparently showed erratic behavior leading up to the shootings.

Like I said, 1/5 of the world's population, over a billion people, share the same holy book with him. If all of these people were emulating this man, this would not be a dramatic news story.



posted on Nov, 14 2009 @ 07:03 PM
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Originally posted by bsbray11
reply to post by EyesWideShut
 


I never mentioned anything about "Christians vs. Muslims."


This guy was mentally unstable. He is on record as having been sent to counseling earlier for "unspecified" reasons and apparently showed erratic behavior leading up to the shootings.

Like I said, 1/5 of the world's population, over a billion people, share the same holy book with him. If all of these people were emulating this man, this would not be a dramatic news story.




Boston Globe story

"In 2007, Hasan gave a strident slide presentation on Islam to Walter Reed’s assembled mental health staff, including another Muslim psychiatrist who objected to its tone and content. The address ended with Hasan recommending that the military grant conscientious objector status to Muslim troops “to increase troop morale and decrease adverse events.”


so you KNOW he was mentally unstable because he was sent to counseling for "Unspecified" reasons? Even though the nature of the counseling isn't known , he could've had a gambling problem for all you know.

yes like you said 1/5 of the worlds population share the same holy book with him. The overwhelming majority also live in poverty in Muslim countries that are state controlled. what are they going to do?.... blow themselves up? You don't see anyone from Dubai performing Jihad because they're rich. despite what you say the qur'an is still the qur'an Laughing doesnt make the message in the book go away.



posted on Nov, 14 2009 @ 07:10 PM
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These large "Gun Free" Zones on "most" Federal property (like Ft. Hood) and most academic campuses is just freeking stupid. I can see courthouse and federal "Buildings" that have heavy security in place but a "gun free" open campus is dumb.

Where are the nutcases going to go to perform "mass-casualty" shootings? A gun free zone of course... Will take a while before anyone shows up to shoot back!



But yes, most of you are right. The MOTIVATION for this terrorist act was Jihad and the facts of that are overwhelming. To deny that is to lie to yourself or worse lie to us and try to get us to deny reality in favor of this insane "political correctness".

abcnews.go.com...

United States Army Major Nidal Hasan proclaimed himself a "soldier of Allah" on private business cards he obtained over the Internet and kept in a box at his apartment near Fort Hood, Texas.

U.S. officials and analysts told ABCNews.com today that Hasan used multiple e-mail addresses and screen names as he contacted several jihadist web sites around the world.

In addition to his contacts with suspected al Qaeda recruiter Anwar al Awlaki in Yemen, authorities said there is evidence he contacted other radical sites and individuals, including some in Europe.


www.amnation.com...

Hasan's fellow medical students complained of his anti-American, pro-terrorist statements, but officers did nothing


There was the classroom presentation that justified suicide bombings. Comments to colleagues about a climate of persecution faced by Muslims in the military. Conversations with a mosque leader that became incoherent.

His fellow students complained to the faculty about Hasan's "anti-American propaganda," but said a fear of appearing discriminatory against a Muslim student kept officers from filing a formal written complaint. However, classmate Finnell said that Hasan made a presentation during their studies "that justified suicide bombing" and spewed "anti-American propaganda" as he argued the war on terror was "a war against Islam." Finnell said he and at least one other student complained about Hasan, surprised that someone with "this type of vile ideology" would be allowed to wear an officer's uniform.

But Finnell said no one filed a formal, written complaint about Hasan's comments out of fear of appearing discriminatory.



Look, like it or not we need to call a duck a duck. We will never get anywhere if we DENY the freeking problem. It is what it is... Islamic fundamentalist terror.

Accept it and address solutions, not deny the problem.



posted on Nov, 14 2009 @ 07:15 PM
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reply to post by infolurker
 


No Info, you can't use logic to argue with these people. Logic is like Kryptonite to them.



posted on Nov, 14 2009 @ 07:33 PM
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reply to post by EyesWideShut
 


So you're saying the reason the whole billion+ Muslims living in the world aren't ALL hell-bent on killing us, is because they're too poor.


Thanks for clearing up my misconceptions that you were simply being a bigot. You're being much clearer now.



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