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Feds move to seize N.Y. skyscraper, 4 mosques

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posted on Nov, 12 2009 @ 10:24 PM
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reply to post by bsbray11
 


You make valid points and I respect your views.


But as a counterpoint, it certainly could be argued that it is actually the fanatics within the religion that are the ones doing the demonizing. Imagery from hostages and hijackings and bombings and murders have certainly influenced the perceptions of most westerners. These are real , tangible events stretching back 30 plus years in this nation. While the reasons behind such acts may---or may not----hinge on matters of foreign relations is really beside the point. Plainly put, the Germans didn't see such behavior from the Jews prior to world war two and so the analogy and comparision falls flat.

(And as a side point, with very very rare exception, the same reason most westerners simply can not and do not group Christians with Muslims is simply because Methodists and Southern Baptists just almost never blind fold and behead captive americans.)

In other words, a large , large part of anti-Muslim sentiment is due to the extremists themselves(and a lack of condemnation from Muslim leaders) rather than americans/westerners simply being on a witch hunt.

And I find it very odd that few can admit that.




posted on Nov, 12 2009 @ 10:25 PM
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For those who think America will round-up Muslims in concentration camps, NOT going to happen. They go after anyone who is doing bad things, and with regard to terrorism, Muslims are more likely to be involved.

For those who think America will leave the Mid-East, or the USD will collapse, I call BS. . . You know what kind of money is flowing around Baghdad right now? USDs. That's what they're using there now. Will it change? Well, it's only growing in popularity.

You don't think a lot of Iranians LOVE America? The same ones screaming "Death to Khomaenei" right now will be the ones welcoming US troops. . . . and you know what they will do to thank us for destroying their evil Ahmadinejad & Khomainei mafia? YUP, they'll be using USDs.

I'm tired of the conspiracy theories talking about the USD collapsing. They talk, but without the USD, the world will collapse, that's how important it is. The USD will GAIN next year, incredibly, in my opinion. The Euro will go DOWN. . . . remember someone said this.



posted on Nov, 12 2009 @ 10:31 PM
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reply to post by Clark Savage Jr.
 


Real extremists may very well create a bad appearance, but so long as no one is persecuting Muslims in general because of this erroneously stereotypical media appearance I'm not going to have a problem.

I'm just too aware of how easy it is for most Americans to fail to make that critical distinction.



posted on Nov, 12 2009 @ 11:11 PM
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It amazes me that no matter how much one points out the obvious in these matters others still post, some at great length and eloquence even, that this entire farce of a conflict centers on religious affiliation.

As the above poster stated, you are more likely to be hit by a bus immediately following a lightning strike than to run into a "radical islamist" at the shopping mall tomorrow and die from terrorism here in america.

This entire charade is one of Goverment string-pulling. And sure, with enough string-pulling, you will have people "crack" (Ft. Hood)... But then, conviently, that becomes just another part of the screenplay. In fact, one that is likely counted on as it only serves to further the "agenda" that this is a holy affair.

NO!!!!! This is a global economic hegemony afair and it has run its course.
DO NOT LET IT CONTINUE, people! PLEASE!

We must recognize this for what it truly is!
It is coming to a close, let it. Do not trumpet up holy war. Do not support the politicains who are sworn to support you who clearly do not and even LAUGH ABOUT IT!



posted on Nov, 12 2009 @ 11:13 PM
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reply to post by bettermakings
 


I will definatley remember you said it. I will also remember your screen-name to be sure and consider you a Nazi when I see your posts.

You support economic hegemony at the cost of thousands upon thousands of lives.

And you boast that you support it.



posted on Nov, 13 2009 @ 12:21 AM
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What better way to provoke the Iranian government then to hit some Shiite mosques and disrupting their cash flow? I expect we will hear from Ahmedishad about the US harassing Iranian nationals and Shiites and threatening to respond in kind in Iraq.Just what the Military/Industrial Complex wants they wanna force Obama to consider a another world war in the name of full spectrum dominance.



posted on Nov, 13 2009 @ 01:13 AM
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The California mosque they're taking over is only 15 to 20 min from me...kinda scary but I am glad they are doing something...
HOWEVER...what about those islamic compounds we hear about, where muslim men live and study the koran and neighbors say they hear gunfire and explosions...how come those places are still in business?



posted on Nov, 13 2009 @ 01:51 AM
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Assuming that these mosques were permitting terrorist activities, recruitment, or hate speech, I think it's fine. Religion should not be a safe harbor for terror. If this skyscraper is related to any funding of terrorists or of Iran, then I say have at it.

I don't see this as some sort of anti-Muslim grab, though of course I can't dismiss the possibility completely. Governments in general, and ours in particular, are known to do shady things for seriously bogus reasons. But while I can't rule that out completely, it does seem that the FBI could be moving to stop an organization from funding or supporting terrorists.



posted on Nov, 13 2009 @ 04:34 AM
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Planes hit twin towers, America is really mad so ,we go to a war with Iraq. Fort hood shootings, America is really mad, and we go to war with Iran. Makes sense to me.



posted on Nov, 13 2009 @ 04:59 AM
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Originally posted by mike dangerously
What better way to provoke the Iranian government then to hit some Shiite mosques and disrupting their cash flow? I expect we will hear from Ahmedishad about the US harassing Iranian nationals and Shiites and threatening to respond in kind in Iraq.Just what the Military/Industrial Complex wants they wanna force Obama to consider a another world war in the name of full spectrum dominance.


Mike dangerously? Dangerous to what - you, us and our way of life? You seriously want us to be concerned about stopping terrorism here by "provoking" the iranians due to upsetting their clandestine operations in THIS country.




posted on Nov, 13 2009 @ 05:00 AM
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It doesn't matter how tame the beast is - if you keep poking it with a sharp stick, at some point it is going to bite.

I can understand the Iranian reluctance to respond to all the provocations being aimed at them - they can hardly win any military exchange with Israel - but this kind of thing is preposterous.

There are cool heads in Iran - they will be thinking quickly about what other assets may be at risk - and removing them asap.

In case I didn't already state it - this is complete BS - this is clear provocation - maybe not quite as bad as the suicide bombing of their military staff - but this is BS.



posted on Nov, 13 2009 @ 05:04 AM
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Originally posted by JayinAR
reply to post by bsbray11
 


I have no problems with muslims, but *I* would destroy every mosque if I could.
And every church.



But since it is one of our freedoms in the U.S., I would let them all have their churches - as long as their religion stayed there and in their homes. As long as their religions stayed private and did not become public, as in trying to influence government and politics.



posted on Nov, 13 2009 @ 05:13 AM
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Originally posted by bsbray11

Originally posted by centurion1211
OK, but how many is that now that have been killed by "extremist Christians"? Are we up to counting them on 2 hands yet?


Millions of people have already been killed in the name of Christianity. If they're slowing down now, it's only because people have learned over hundreds of years to not take the church seriously anymore here in the West.


Again, attempting to compare apples to oranges. How many people did the muslims also kill 500 and 1,000 and 1,500 years ago. Let;s stick to right here right now, since that's all we can really deal with. Actually, it's rather pitiful that all you can dredge up to defend radical muslims (why?) is what someone else did many centuries ago.


Christians still murder people, I would wager many more people than Muslims do in this country just by the sheer majority of Christians and the fact that Muslims do not commit most murder in this country. What "name" the killing is done for, doesn't change anything at all imo. You still only have lone nuts doing this stuff, not anywhere near the majority of Muslims.


I'll take your bet (if it even made grammatical sense), now prove it. The problem is that muslims do commit murder in this country in the name of their religion. Think about it (you can). If a source of death in this country is positively identified, we generally do something to stop it, whether it is from a disease or otherwise.

No one ever said the "majority of muslims".



Freedom of religion.

Many more Americans have already died for that, than any Muslims here have killed.


While you're at it, prove this one, too.



posted on Nov, 13 2009 @ 07:36 AM
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reply to post by bsbray11
 


Actually I am a radical muslim hating Scotsman, they bombed our airport in Glasgow, protest in westminister to have sharia law in Britain and refuse to intergrate into the host society. It is as simple as that and I am not making generalisations this is from frist hand experience. The Radical muslims have to go, they should be deported to Iran or Pakistan, and thoses countries should get fenced in to stop them trying to return to the culture that they hate.



posted on Nov, 13 2009 @ 08:30 AM
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Originally posted by bsbray11
You must not have noticed the people agreeing with you, also saying they would destroy every mosque in the West.


I am not responsible for other people's comments. If you have a response to MY comments, feel free. But trying to associate me with someone else's post in order to have a "come back" is pretty lame.



It's okay, I know you are intentionally turning a blind eye to those kinds of comments here.


You know no such thing. Again, If you have a retort to MY comments, I'm all ears. But if not, don't go after me for something some other poster said.


Here's something I DID say: Muslims are not a threat to us, but what these businesses are (allegedly) doing is illegal in the US, whether they're Muslims, Jews, Christians or Hindu.

Now, who's "intentionally turning a blind eye" to certain comments?

Just because the alleged criminals in your opening post are Muslims, it doesn't follow that the government is going after all Muslims and therefore this is just like Nazi Germany. That's a highly illogical, not to mention extremely paranoid conclusion.



posted on Nov, 13 2009 @ 08:36 AM
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Originally posted by bsbray11

Originally posted by Wildbob77
reply to post by bsbray11
 


The persecution of the Jews in Germany was not justified.


Wrong.

It was completely justified to the German people.

That's why they were okay with it, and even took it upon themselves to harass Jews themselves. They no longer needed the Nazi officers to do it for them, they were so totally brainwashed.



What does this remind me of?

Oh! I know! Blind racism a couple of ignorant folk here have against muslim/middle eastern people in general.



posted on Nov, 13 2009 @ 08:45 AM
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Originally posted by bsbray11
Reminds me of Jews being persecuted in Nazi Germany.

This is why we're supposed to remember history. So when people start doing crap like this again, we stop it BEFORE they start putting us in concentration camps.


It was only a matter of time before somebody would resort to Reductio ad Hitlerum, i.e. bringing up Hitler for no reason except to send everybody on a freaking guilt trip. Classic demagoguery, if maybe vintage.

I'm actually not aware of radical Jewish organizations in Nazi Germany that engaged in suicide attacks, hijacking planes and called for extermination of Muslims. The Jews were persecuted simply because they were Jews. In the case discussed in the OP there are allegations of illegal activity under US law. If you don't see that, have a nice day.

I'm actually glad that the Govt under Barack Obama shows some gut and determination in dealing with creeping islamist threat, as opposed to that patsy GWB.



posted on Nov, 13 2009 @ 09:19 AM
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reply to post by On the level
 


on the level, you have the most ridiculous name for what you said.

i can't believe a (supposed) intelligent person would say such an ignorant statement like that.

and shame on everyone who starred that. it's statements like this (implanted by a person from the UK mind you) that will lead to even more moral corruption in the US.

that is ridiculous hate speech.

back to the topic though....

this needs to be watched with an eagle's eye. if this is allowed to slip by without some sort of public outcry, then it leads to more and more of this happening to other groups of people.

dont get me wrong, if it turns out they are doing wrong, they deserve the punishment...but after the Ft Hood shooting, saying it wasnt terorist related, then finding out he at least had a bit of an extremist mind set, then this...not looking good for us.



posted on Nov, 13 2009 @ 09:29 AM
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Originally posted by On the level
reply to post by bsbray11
 


Actually I am a radical muslim hating Scotsman, they bombed our airport in Glasgow, protest in westminister to have sharia law in Britain and refuse to intergrate into the host society. It is as simple as that and I am not making generalisations this is from frist hand experience. The Radical muslims have to go, they should be deported to Iran or Pakistan, and thoses countries should get fenced in to stop them trying to return to the culture that they hate.


this is the type of rhetoric we do not need on this site. thanks for lowering the bar.

if anyone should be accused of "hitler speak", it's this guy. stop staring him. this is ridiculous.

i know this will probably be deleted, but someone has to say it. mods shouldnt let this go.

not all muslims are extremist. get over it.



posted on Nov, 13 2009 @ 10:01 AM
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Now Obama is in charge, many are willing to accept war upon the Muslim community. Why's that? Because he's a God like figure with so many willing to bow down and kiss the feet of their "leader."

But, I doubt anything serious will spark from this considering Muslims have been mistreated and discriminated against since 9/11. This is just another page in that very epic book...

Also, I'm not a fan of ANY religion so don't think I'm personally and only attacking Islam here....BUT...

When 100 people die because of a CARTOON description of a prophet....you know your religious institution may be a tad uncivilized...


and insane.




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