In popular US film: Why are the Lakota (Sioux) "good", and the Crow, Pawnee "bad"?

What? There are American Indians in North America who are not Sioux, Navajo or Apache?

Judging by the movies, one wouldn't think so.

Mohawks maybe, usually depicted as steelworkers and "urban Indians".

In Germanic terms, does that mean we're all Saxons or Bavarian or Prussians, or even Austrians?
That is another question.

There may be smaller films, but to most of the cinematic world it is simply Germans.

But Germans among themselves - no, they can pick up every region you come from, from the moment you open your mouth.

One can't really say it's tribal, but even after 2000 years one cannot say it's entirely not tribal either.

Or just go Hollywood.

If it's an evil character just speak English with a German accent.
No need to learn any German, all the Nazis spoke English with a German accent.

a reply to: Rewey
Hehheh, amusing!

a reply to: halfoldman
England was originally Celtic (settled by various Celtic peoples). The Gauls living in what is now France, were also Celts. The people in Ireland were Celts. The Germanic peeps lived mostly east of the Rhine (RHENVS, in Latin), and occasionally raided Gaullic tribes before then retiring back to the East. But then came Rome (a Republic still), with Caesar overrunning the Gauls and making Gaul a Roman province. This partly because the Celts had once overrun Italy and sacked Rome. So payback to some degree--this time with an extremely professional and superbly trained army led by very competent commanders. The Romans imposed rule and order--but not Latin--on Gaul (and then on Hispania--Spain and Portugal). If you wanted to do business with the Romans, you learned Latin; if you wanted 'in' to the local government offices, you learned Latin. But the Romans never forced their language on the local populations. Latin usage grew--but over time. Caesar made his venture over to England to kick a little ass and take names, but then left, other things occupying his mind, followed by his assassination in ROMA. With the IMPERIVM ROMANVM (Roman Empire) under CLAVDIVS, in 44 CE (Common Era--the new 'AD'), the Romans decided to invade Britannia, and did. They occupied much of Britain, subduing all of the Celtic peoples that the Roman Army reached, eventually conquering the area of Wales as well, and finally extending to the southern part of Scotland (though under the Roman governor GAIVS IVLIVS AGRICOLA, Rome reached even farther into Scotland (and several times later) before finally settling more or less at Hadrian's Wall (started in 122 under the rule of Emperor Hadrian, or HADRIANVS IMPERITOR--and twice at Antonine's wall (a bit farther north). Aside from a revolt or three here and there (e.g., that of Boudica, the Queen of the Iceni [eastern Britain] who revolted in 62 CE and gave the Romans a bit of a fright--since most of the Romans legions were on campaign under governor/Legate [general] GAIVS SVETONIVS PAVLINVS in Wales at the time, leaving LONDINIVM, CAMVLODVNVM (Colchester) and other cities essentially unprotected. Paulinus raced to and reached London, warned the peeps to flee (nothing he could do), and raced back to his army, which was marching east as fast as it could (and numbered less than the Celts they faced). However, he selected a great battle position, psyched up his peeps, and defeated the Iceni and their allies. Boudicca killed herself. And Britannia went on, with a 'relatively' quiet 2.5 centuries in Britain until the Empire started coming unglued--and finally pulled its military units and government officials back to the continent by 410 CE. The Romans again, had not imposed Latin on the provincials, and the peoples in Wales still spoke Celtic--but if you wanted to be anybody of any significance, being comfortable with Latin was key. With the Romans gone, the northern Celts in Scotland began forays south. The Romanized Celts in Britain looked for help, and got it initially from the Angles, Jutes, and Seaxe (Saxon) peoples of northwest Germania, what became Denmark, and the northeastern part of what became Holland (Frisia). They came, helped a while, settled where the British Celts suggested they do so--but then some serious trouble---some accounts claim the Brits failed to pay the agreed upon 'protection' amount, and when more Germanic emigrants arrived, the Germanic folk decided to move right in and became the new invaders, pushing the British Celts westard. The Celts in Wales were relatively out of the picture (other than as targets of raids from the Celts in Ireland into Wales and Scotland). And so the Germanic peoples displaced many of the Romanized Celts, and created the kingdoms of West Seaxe (West Saxony, became Wessex), Sûd Seaxe (South Saxony, became Sussex), Eâst Angle (East Anglia) Mierce (Mercia--which later included London, and provided the dialect that became Modern English), Kent, and Norðhenymbre (Northumbria). The West Saxon kingdom became very powerful under King Ælfred (800s), who encouraged people to write in Old English rather than Latin (most writing done in Europe was in Latin, while England encouraged the people's vernacular. Most of the Old English verse extant today was written in West Saxon--though this dialect did not become modern English. During Ælfred's rule the Danes arrived, and conquered much of Eastern England--finally stopped by King Ælfred. Danish was a Northern Germanic language--related to Anglo-Saxon--but with different grammatical word endings. King Ælfred created a treaty between West Seaxe called the Dane lagu (Danelaw). The area of the Danes (eastern Mercia) observed Danish Viking law, while the remaining Mercian holdings followed Mercian law, or Northumbrian or West Saxon law. Eventually, the Danes assimilated with the people they ruled, though their dialect differences--which originally caused confusion among their subjects, had begun some significant changes in the structure of Old English grammar and pronunciation. that would continue for centuries and lead to what we speak today. The Celtic tongue remained extant in Wales, Cornwall, and Scotland. Subsequent raids/visits by Norse and Swedish vikings to the English coast exacerbated the changes now occuring in English. And then, in 1066, William the Conqueror and his Normans arrived--more invaders, this time Norsemen who had settled in the Normandie region of Gaul. The language they spoke was what everyday (colloquial) Latin had become in Gaul--first Frankish, then French, more or less. Thus, the Norman upper crust in Britannia spoke Norman French; the common people continued using Old English, though many French (and Latin) words were imported into English as well.

AND tberefore--So sorry, no way to determine Prussian or other Germanic ethnicity other than he initial Germanic peeps who came over.

a reply to: halfoldman

You are killing me, dude--I am an ancient history (especially Rome) buff, including Japan and Korea, and a linguist--but soon you will have run me out of information to impart! :-)

--- Anakihme

a reply to: halfoldman


The Cour d'Alene people, who speak Salish (Salish language family). live on the Cour d'Alene reservation in Idaho (which I'm sure you already knew). Lakota/Dakota/Nakota are in the Mississipi-Siouan subgroup, as are the Iowa, Otoe, Missouria, Omaha-Ponca, Kansa-Osage, and Quapaw. The Saponi (not Siponi) fall in the Eastern Siouan group like their cousins the Tupelo.The Eastern Siouan group comprises the Ohio Valley Siouan sub-group, which includes Ofo and Biloxi, Catawban and Woccon--and also the Virginia Siouan member languages: Tutelo-Saponi and Monetan. Most of these peoples were surrounded by Algonquian language-speaking peoples, or Iroquoian language speakers (e.g., Tuscarora, Cherokee), and eventually succumbed to them or to White encroachment. The Tuscarora and Cherokee had moved south from their fellow Iroquoian speakers long in the past, but pressure from the growing numbers of Europeans led the Tuscarora to eventually return north in the 1700s to settle with the Iroquois League / Confederacy (they were split between the Onandaga and Oneida nations) as the League's 6th Nation (though they are not directly represented on the Iroquois League's 5-Nations flag, which only depicts symbols for the original 5 peoples) imgur.com...

No, it's quite true that no major movies have ever appeared that are oriented from the Crow, Shoshoni, or Pawnee point of view; there are a couple movies that cover some of the people's of the Northeast, e.g., 1991's "Black Robe" which relates a Jeuit priest's journey in the 1600s with some Algonquian peoples who suffer attacks by Iroquoian tribes along their way (the Algonquian-speaking peoples of Massachusetts, Rhode Island, Connecticut, New Hampshire, Maine, etc. were perpetually enemies of the Iroquious peoples, who regularly attacked Algonquian tribes in order to take captives). There have been some documentaries, including one on the Niimi'ipuutímt (Nez Perce), who's language is in the Sahaptian language family.

a reply to: halfoldman

This is true, because the dialectal differences are so specific. Berliners have their own speech pattern; Arnold Schwarzenneger has a southern accent; 'Nazi' German accents used in movies often have more of a northern German sound. Bavarian is completely unintelligible to someone from Hamburg (as is the Plattdeutsch used in Hamburg to Bavarians)--this is why "standard" German is taught in schools. Though one of seven districts of Bayern (Bavaria), Schwäbisch (Swabian) is a distinct dialect, as is Frankisch (Franconian)--also in Bavaria. You're right, most Germans can identify an origin from a particular region even if they can't understand the dialect they are hearing.

Dialectal differences are significant in the US, but not necessarily identifiable except in very general terms--Southern, Midwestern, etc.--though most people can recognize a New York city accent from a Boston accent, even if they are not able to recognize which PART of New York City (Bronx, Brooklyn, Queens, etc.--or even northern New Jersey). Most Americans do not recognoze which statet a rural [Maine] accent is from--though most northern Americans would recognize the accent of an English speaking Canadian as Canadian.