Introducing: Millitary Free America!!

reply to post by Ridhya


It's very simple....

Those who feel that way simply don't bother signing up. Unlike many EU countries, US military service is not compulsory.

Talk about the lack of freedom of choice.


[edit on 13-11-2009 by SLAYER69]

Originally posted by Uniceft17

Originally posted by Mahree
reply to post by crimvelvet

 

By the way, the Armed Forces oath also includes that they must obey orders from the President.

Armed Forces Oath

I looked back and that was the response to the same thing you posted earlier in the thread. Did you not read any of your replys or the rest of the thread from where you left off?

Thank you for checking up on me.

As a matter of fact I did read the replies because of my interest in this subject. You might have noticed that crimvelvet mentioned in his post @ 4:41am that the oath "was NOT to the President or Congress". therefore....I did repost that link. I believe that the link does show that the oath is also to obey orders given by the President, or have I made another mistake?

Mahree

One point of confusion is that military service is mistaken with 'serving one's country. While that might well be the intent of the soldier, it is a highly inaccurate way of characterizing one's service. First, it assumes that the government and military leaders are engaging in a military mission in the service of the country. When has that ever been true? Since World War II, I cannot think of any. History has shown that US military adventurism is done on behalf of US corporate interests, not on behalf of the American people or American principles and ideals. Consequently, US soldiers are simply cannon fodder used to achieve the objectives of the Powers That Be. This is basic. If you can't see that, you haven't been reading your history (or these bulletin boards) enough. Military service means handing your life and your principles over, not to the President, but to those who really control US Policy, our Masters.

Similarly, it is a misstatement to describe one's service as fighting "for freedom" or "democracy." Again, sadly not since WWII have our military had that distinction. Rather, we fight for the freedom of our corporations to rape, plunder, and pillage other countries and their peoples. How is that spreading freedom or serving America? Read your history books.

reply to post by Doomsday 2029


oh dear lord...how can you possibly compare Nazi Germany to our current military?

You have given your argument 0 thought, and you are pulling out the bull # card to try and win an argument.

Just like people who pull the race card, or the sympathy card, you have proven yourself to be an intellectual coward who cannot convey their hatred of something in any other manner than calling someone a nazi.

Please. Expand your vocabulary and try again.

Originally posted by TXRabbit

We all know that WAR IS FUN!!!

Just look at the top-selling video game right now. Hell, there even mobs of people waiting for a midnight sale to get this game.

Why do you think people are still enlisting with 2 "wars" going on?

War isn't fun, but *playing* war seems to be.

However, vids. don't inspire people to join the military any more than music inspires people to be violent. I'm sure there are a few who join because they want to "blow sh*t up" but I don't believe that is the case for the majority and to sum it down to that level is ridiculous and without thought.

For your point to be true, one would have to show a relevant relationship between the two and I seriously doubt that can be done, but I could be wrong. Two questions to start:

$310 million dollars (US, UK combined) with 4.7 million copies sold in first 24 hours...
How do these numbers break down amongst the population? How many civilians -vs- military personnel are buying the vids.?

(and)

Of the total population, how many people actually joined the service as a direct result of playing video games like this? Assume the sales and influence of the top 5 vids over the course of the last 8 years (to keep it simple).

Why do you think people are still enlisting with 2 "wars" going on?

Is it really about video games, or is this a rhetorical question?




[edit on 13-11-2009 by LadySkadi]

Originally posted by Mahree

Originally posted by Uniceft17

Originally posted by Mahree
reply to post by crimvelvet

 

By the way, the Armed Forces oath also includes that they must obey orders from the President.

Armed Forces Oath

I looked back and that was the response to the same thing you posted earlier in the thread. Did you not read any of your replys or the rest of the thread from where you left off?

Thank you for checking up on me.

As a matter of fact I did read the replies because of my interest in this subject. You might have noticed that crimvelvet mentioned in his post @ 4:41am that the oath "was NOT to the President or Congress". therefore....I did repost that link. I believe that the link does show that the oath is also to obey orders given by the President, or have I made another mistake?

Mahree

Sorry about that, I misinterpreted your post. My apologies.

2nd line.

[edit on 11/13/2009 by Uniceft17]

They took an oath to defend the Constitution and they are not doing that. One Soldier questioned Obamas legal right to the Presidency and what it would mean to the military if he was not legal. They need to as one lay down their weapons and say no, until he proves beyond a shadow of a doubt he is legal. If he is not they are all committing a crime and he is commiting treason.

Regardless of everything else they need to defend US not any other country and they need to remove the UN insignia off their uniforms as this is in violation of the Constitution. If they are ignorant of the Constittution or what is really going on, the they are unwitting co conspirators in the destruction of our country.
IGNORANCE is no excuse. My family has served in a branches of the military and is serving now.

SO ALL MILITARY STEP UP AND DO YOUR JOB AND DEFEND THE CONSTITUION OR WE THE PEOPLE WILL.

You want my respect and support then do what you vowed to do and do it now before it is to late.

It is not the fault of young idealistic mean that they are the gears of war.

I feel that every citizen should be a soldier - as it was in Sparta. When you are defending your home, life and family from foreign invaders then you are a patriot.

When you are killing in a foreign land for no purpose you can clearly define, then you have been used - and it is time enough to return to your homes and families, and wash your hands of others bloody business.

Originally posted by Snarf
reply to post by Doomsday 2029

 

oh dear lord...how can you possibly compare Nazi Germany to our current military?

You have given your argument 0 thought, and you are pulling out the bull # card to try and win an argument.

Just like people who pull the race card, or the sympathy card, you have proven yourself to be an intellectual coward who cannot convey their hatred of something in any other manner than calling someone a nazi.

Please. Expand your vocabulary and try again.

At some risk of wasting my time, I will respond to you.

The German soldiers believed in what they were fighting for, they believed they were good and just men - following orders and protecting their country.

They believed this because they were told by authority is was the truth, the military was respected and honored - just as it is in the US.

When they invaded, they were told it was to defend against an imminent attack - they were lied to.

The US invaded Iraq - killed 1 million civilians - displaced 4 million - destroyed the country - all based on lies.

To many outside the US - especially those on the receiving end of this death and misery - the US and Nazi Germany cannot be differentiated.

Personally - I cannot differentiate them - they are one and the same.

The US has become Nazi Germany - the SS is replaced by the CIA, Obama for Hitler - and the Third Reich by the US hegemony.

You will likely never be able to see it, but it is clear to anyone who is not blinded by beliefs.

Only the people can stop what the US has become - a machine of war.

reply to post by Amagnon

The US has become Nazi Germany - the SS is replaced by the CIA, Obama for Hitler - and the Third Reich by the US hegemony.

No.

If the U.S. ever starts executing people in mass quantities like the Nazis did, then you will have a valid argument.

But as long as that never happens, all you have is sensationalism.

Minus the mass genocide, Nazi Germany and the modern day United States do share something in common, along with every other nation that has ever existed on this planet - ever.

Patronage.

Troops listen to their government no matter what country they're from.

Thats why they're troops.

So by your shaky definition - every civilization that has ever had an army is the same thing as Nazi Germany. Because the army has always listend to what it was told.

Hell, even the countries that were around before Nazi Germany, were Nazi Germany.

What an enigma!

Thank you for this thread! I'm Canadian, but in both nations there is no respect for soldiers from the youth ( I'm 15). There is no respect for the country and there is no respect for the national anthem. Just the other day (Nov. 11) we had our Remembrance Day assembly in my school (equivalent to the Americans' Veteran's Day) and there is supposed to be complete silence. It is supposed to be a solemn occasion right? That is not what happened in my school. You could hear people cracking jokes and laughing, where is the respect? As a poster above stated paraphrasing, "The amounts of freedoms and rights that are found in America, we take it for granted and think of it as natural". I'm against the thought of a Military Free America because it makes the Western World vulnerable. Where will our freedom be then? Only then will these peace-lovers that have no consideration of the struggles that soldiers face will learn that the military was a good thing. Where will Britain do with America conquered, what will Canada do? The Middle East, particularly Iran will feed on the pain of America. We need an army to protect ourselves. To me America represents the wall between freedoms and oppression. Thank you America for being there, thank you for your army. But no thanks to those that will burn soldiers on a stake so that there will be no war. There will be Chaos!

reply to post by blink3


no, thank you. Great post. there is hope.

reply to post by For(Home)Country

We need a military to keep thugs from invading our country. But our military has become thugs invading our country. It was a concern of the founding fathers not to have a standing army. Of course in their day they could raise up an effective army from gun-carrying patriots. But we have an army stationed on US soil, not to mention another army owned by the UN stationed on US soil. These armies are at the beck and call of a criminal gang that has ties with the Nazis, they have been using our military and our money for illegal activities and murders and abominations and saying "prove it" This military might gives them the ability to spit at law and decency. Without laws (and a sense of decent behavior) we would be overrun by thugs to take our stuff and to rape and murder at will. The powers that be have an idea that might is all they need to run a civilization. A civilization runs itself. People are ruled because they consent to be ruled. The American indians did not become slaves, they would simply die. That's why black slaves were imported for labor. Blacks, probably more because of being removed from their surroundings than anything were more malable, more subduable. more accepting of slavery at least then the Indians. But a civilization, at least one you'd want to live in, runs itself. People pretty much know what to expect because laws govern behavior. It works for everybody because it's at least designed to protect the individual. But rule by power does not work. Even if people consent to tyranny, bow their heads and consent to be slaves, they become something less than human. Human beings cannot live like that. Yes the blacks suffered slavery, but the cost to each one wasn't just discomfort or lack of provisions. The cost was an internal constant state of torture. Human beings can't live like that. We are watching our militarized country take more and more civil rights away. That means we are coming closer and closer to slavery. Of course we are not going to become slaves quietly. That's where the military comes in. So you can understand a little resentment against the military. We wish they would be more citizens, thinking citizens, participating in democracy, thinking about foreign policy and domestic policy and what their elected representative should be doing with the government. The military should not just be sitting there obedient, ready to put us into Fema camps at the behest of these super elites that think they own the world because they were so clever at manipulating everybody. If Fema camps don't sound so bad realize that they are Roach Hotels.you check in but you don't check out. Check out these Fema camps. We have too much military. We don't need this much military, not just that it is so expensive that it is bankrupting the country and making our futures unstable. but that it is threatening our existence and the existence of our loved ones. We cannot trust the military because they are ruled by the shadow elite, basically monsters.


[edit on 13-11-2009 by m khan]

[edit on 13-11-2009 by m khan]

Originally posted by mr. toddly
One point of confusion is that military service is mistaken with 'serving one's country. While that might well be the intent of the soldier, it is a highly inaccurate way of characterizing one's service. First, it assumes that the government and military leaders are engaging in a military mission in the service of the country. When has that ever been true? Since World War II, I cannot think of any. History has shown that US military adventurism is done on behalf of US corporate interests, not on behalf of the American people or American principles and ideals. Consequently, US soldiers are simply cannon fodder used to achieve the objectives of the Powers That Be. This is basic. If you can't see that, you haven't been reading your history (or these bulletin boards) enough. Military service means handing your life and your principles over, not to the President, but to those who really control US Policy, our Masters.

Similarly, it is a misstatement to describe one's service as fighting "for freedom" or "democracy." Again, sadly not since WWII have our military had that distinction. Rather, we fight for the freedom of our corporations to rape, plunder, and pillage other countries and their peoples. How is that spreading freedom or serving America? Read your history books.

You are not cannon fodder. you know how much money goes into training a soldier and protecting him? You know how much we invest in body armor, and medical aid for soldiers?

This is not the 19th century. A well trained tank crew is worth more than the tank. special forces cost one million to train each. Far from cannon fodder.

Your part about corporations isn't true anymore. The worlds average GDP has risen around the world because of the US and trade. Your wrong.

Originally posted by gwydionblack
Not only could the United States work without a military, but the entire world could as well. It seems that many guys underestimate the "people" in this country, much the same way as the government does.

You act as if soldiers are some form of higher being. As if they do something that no other person could do. You are wrong. Soldiers are just people like us, just with advance training and forced contracts. The difference between us normal people and soldiers is simple: soldiers follow the orders of the government, regardless of how ethical or necessary it is. We follow the orders of the heart, morals and ethics.

Do you honestly thing that is some country came and invaded with their military that they would stand a chance? It is because of the second amendment that other countries fear the United States in the first place. Any type of invasion on our soil would lead to the same outcome as the Revolutionary War.



The military today is just an extended arm of the executive government. Collectively, they are the driving force behind the future we face and it isn't good.

You are completely ignorant. You do not have to follow an order if it is unlawful. seriously, learn what you are talking about before you talk.

reply to post by Mahree

I am curious about how to go about fixing the problems you state. Are you saying that these groups control all of Congress, and there isn't any hope of getting to them?

They only plan I can think of is to vote third party, vote for the underdog without all the glitz.



The groups who control Congress are very wealthy, powerful and ruthless.

Congressman McFadden introduced House Resolution No. 158, Articles of Impeachment for the Secretary of the Treasury, two assistant Secretaries of the Treasury, the Board of Governors of the Federal Reserve, and the officers and directors of its twelve regional banks. Subsequently he was shot at twice, poisoned and had his stomach pumped, and died of "heart-failure sudden-death" on Oct. 3, 1936, after a "dose" of "intestinal flu," according to "Pelley's Weekly" of Oct. 14 said: www.rumormillnews.com...

McFadden's speech www.apfn.net...

On June 4, 1963, John F. Kennedy signed the Presidential decree, Executive Order 11110, with the authority to basically strip the Federal Reserve Bank of its power to loan money to the United States Federal Government at interest. We know what happen to him and that his VP reversed Executive Order 11110.

It is amazing how many presidents and other political leaders end up dead, killed by “a lone gunman” after defying the banking powers, Ain't those numbered swiss bank accounts handy? Nine American Presidents have been the targets of assassination and the latest was Ron Paul. Just a few short weeks after he had assure his supporters he was in the Presidential race to the end, he abruptly quit a couple of days after the Bildeburgers met in june of 2008 An earlier report by Dan Estulin alleged the Bildeburgers were considering getting rid of Ron Paul.

Farmers fighting Animal ID, Premise ID and the bogus food safety bills, have found the USDA and FDA to be quite ruthless and immoral. The heads of both the FDA and the USDA should be up on charges for murder, or at least what ever charges are appropriate for government officials who implement the wishes of foreigners as new regulations, knowing those regs will cause death and illness. The officials and Congress then conspired to hide the evidence of wrong doing.

HACCP are the World Trade Organization's corporate friendly food regs - no government oversight except paperwork checks. HACCP replaced our old food regs in 1996 and our food borne illnesses has since skyrocketed.
serious flaws in USDA’s HACCP food-safety system

Efforts of Food inspectors to bring up problems with HACCP are ignored by USDA management and Mr Painter is threatened with criminal charges for supporting his Union members.: Congressional Investigation Apr 17, 2008 Testimony:Mr. Stan Painter, Chairman, National Joint Council of Food Inspection Locals: Transcript of testimony Despite the evidence of Over 1000 non-compliance reports – weighing some 16 pounds, Mr Painter's testimony was discounted by Congress and the USDA.
One E. coli O157:H7 Outbreak I Think I could have Prevented: Bill Marler Attorney at law describes the USDA willfully ignoring reports and evidence of contamination at Con Agra. Contamination that ultimately ended in a woman's death.



If my brother, who is a corporate president, is typical of these people I can personally assure you that they are very intelligent and extremely ruthless. Evil is not too strong a worked for my brother.


On military oaths: The primary oath is to defend the Constitution. The president's oath is also to the Constitution. If his orders are Unconstitutional the oath to the Constitution has the higher Authority since the President's right to give orders derives from the Constitution and from the people he is to SERVE, not rule - SERVE!

[edit on 13-11-2009 by Prove_It_NOW]

Originally posted by eikmun

You are not cannon fodder. you know how much money goes into training a soldier and protecting him? You know how much we invest in body armor, and medical aid for soldiers?

This is not the 19th century. A well trained tank crew is worth more than the tank. special forces cost one million to train each. Far from cannon fodder.

Your part about corporations isn't true anymore. The worlds average GDP has risen around the world because of the US and trade. Your wrong.

Eikmun, I sense we will probably have to agree to disagree, but I appreciate your effort to enlighten.

Just because the cannon fodder is expensive doesn't make it any less cannon fodder. It's not as though the military has to stay within budget, they get all the money they ask for. The more they spend, the more the war profiteers make. So money or cost is no reason to protect our soldiers. War is all about making money, not about protecting America, defending freedom, or spreading democracy. If our generals really cared about protecting our soldiers, then they wouldn't manufacture phony wars for them to fight and die in, and when they did send them into battle they'd be provided with the proper body armor --unlike what happened in Iraq. Bake sales to buy body armor for your kid fighting in Iraq? Pathetic.

Sure, many soldiers join the military believing that it is an honorable and noble institution, but it is not. Don't believe me? I suggest you read "War Is a Racket" by General Smedly Butler. And what do you think Gen. Eisenhower was talking about in his presidential farewell address when he warned us against the military industrial complex? He talked at length about the true costs of war, and he made it clear that wars were being fought not based on need but based on greed.

Also, if you believe that nations around the globe have been lifted out of poverty because of the policies and trade with the United States, then you've been drinking the global elite raspberry-flavored kool-aid. Yes, China's economy is now growing due to its export economy, and India is doing well in the IT field, etc, etc. But for you to ignore the decades of US efforts to deliberately keep much of the world impoverished and forever in debt, then you haven't researched the topic very far. I suggest you google globalizationresearch and educate yourself about the true economic policies the US has been pursuing around the world. For instance, did you know that since the US forced (through lawsuits) India to accept genetically engineered strains of basmati rice, that tens of thousands of Indian farmers have committed suicide rather than starve to death. Turns out impoverished farmers can't afford to compete with Monsanto, and can't afford to stay in the business their families have had for hundreds of years. Sad.

Originally posted by network dude
reply to post by blink3

 

no, thank you. Great post. there is hope.

Network Dude, I couldn't have said it better myself.

Blink3 if I could star and flag you, I would.

Generally, you the citizen know only what the media presents. It is no surprise, after years of political bashing of wars, that some of the young people would have the same reaction many of the young had in the 60s. Peace at any price. Now, they want a nuclear-free world. Don't get me started about deterrents.

Our best work for the past 50 years has been to strengthen the military. It is second to none. Of course, we have downsized it in numbers. On the bright side, we have up-sized it in tech.

You have a weak military, you have unstable peace. Think of it this way. If you walk into a bar, and there is a bouncer there that is 7 ft tall, built like a barn, and looks mean---feel safe? Think someone is going to pick on you? You may hate the bouncer, but he's working for your safety.

I spend the entire V war in the military. Didn't feel like a hero, just doing my job. Only about 10% of the military sees direct combat. Most are support functions. Many in the 10% never see combat, either. It's just the luck of the draw. All have to go through boot camp in case they might have to use a weapon. Military training has been around for thousands of years. We have historically analyzed and improved it to our modern force. Hence, we don't train each and every soldier, sailor, airman or marine to be a Spartan. Most can go back to civilian life without trauma. Those who have faced real combat need our help and support.

Wars may not have an obvious purpose to the citizenry, but in the long run the historical significance reveals itself. Often, when you are living history, you do not comprehend it. "You can't see the forest for the trees." People in Germany under Hitler didn't realize they were killing millions in camps. Eisenhower had the locals paraded through those camps to show them what was going on. People were in denial.

Today, we see a surface report. We don't see the rest of the story. That's why history is written so long after the events, by cool and objective minds.

The older you young people get, the better you will understand.