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Originally posted by chaxid
It's funny how you all speak of our Constitutional obligation without mentioning your very own Constitutional obligation to STAND UP for your country when you perceive we are being wronged.
Quite the double standard to expect those in the service to ruin their lives and give up their freedom even further (life prison penalty for desertion) when I've seen no convincing actions on the part of the people to undo what has been done. What else is a military person supposed to do than to presume they are acting on the behalf of the American people when the people keep voting for more of the same?
Easy to sit behind your keyboard and talk loudly. At least those in the military acted on their principles, and put their lives on the line as a result. So before I go tell my commander I refuse to deploy again, what are the people of the United States going to sacrifice? Their complacency? I doubt it, but that would be a welcome start.
That sure is serving your country, being scared to stand up for the constitution of our great country for fear of life in prison. You sure are noble. Atleast the civilians here at home are voicing there opinions about the war and how it violates the constitution. Sounds like they are doing the Armed forces job for them.
Originally posted by chaxid
You've formed an opinion under the false presumption that the war is unconstitutional.
I will address one of your points however. What stops you from exercising your 2nd amendment right and expelling our current government one politician at a time? You would get the same jail sentence as I would.
Funny that, accusing a veteran of both the war in Afghanistan and Iraq of cowardice. If I'm not afraid to die, why would I be afraid of jail? Leaps of logic shall get you nowhere; practice making sense in a mirror before you talk to me again. I'm going to bed.
Originally posted by network dude
Originally posted by WhiteDevil013
I can imagine Paul Revere riding into my neighborhood screaming "the British are coming," instead of arming themselves and preparing for war, most of my neighbors would simply turn up their "Dancing with the Stars" and mumble, "not my problem".
WHAT THE HELL?
wow. how true is that statement. that is kind of the mentality that I see everywhere. Incredibly sad. I hope something positive will happen to change the attitude of the younger generation, but most likely it will be a devastating event. Change indeed.
Originally posted by Doomsday 2029
reply to post by network dude
Would you make the same thread if you were living in this time period? My guess is probably so.
The fact of the matter is the troops need to wake up.
Just like the people in the photo posted above needed to wake up.
The problem is, the military is only designed to fight enemies that are foreign. Our military is not trained to fight enemies that are Domestic, and until they figure this out... They are no different than the people In the photo posted above: Brainwashed.
I guess for some people invading Poland wasn't justified, but invading Afghanistan is.
Just because I think elements within the Government are evil doesn't mean that I want complete Anarchy.
[edit on 12-11-2009 by Doomsday 2029]
Originally posted by Mahree
I have read through this whole thread. It serves nothing to vilify the soldiers in the field. If you believe the Afghanistan and Iraq wars are illegal, it is not sensible to blame the brave troops on the ground giving their lives and limbs.
You ask that the soldier stand up and refuse to fight. Why don't you ask your politicians to stand up and refuse to fight? Or, vote these politicians out if they are not representing your views.
On one post I read, the person complaining said that when he could get more people behind him he would stand up and fight. But he doesn't hesitate to ask the soldier who is actually standing in the way of harm to stop fighting and go to jail or worse.
Please take to task the people who are responsible for the troops being where they are.
These men and women are trying their best and giving their lives to do the duty that they took an oath to do.
Originally posted by StargateSG7
Who needs soldiers anymore - They're obsolete !!!
Iraq and Afghanistan are the first combat zones to see heavy fighting
and killing by autonomous machines! These are also the first wars
where support and repair personnel outnumber the combat personnel.
In my own family, my brother is in Canadian Forces Combat Engineering,
and was recently posted in Afghanistan in the fighting zones, mostly fixing
YOUR machines...Bradley's, Strykers, Cougars, 2-6 tonne trucks, etc....
which is a byproduct of Canada/USA cooperation.
You Supply It - We fix it for you when you break it!
And most people (sheeple?) in the USA simply don't understand
that there is a basic truth in that the strong tend to bully or conquer
the weak...they also lack the understanding that is it better to BE STRONG than weak...thus I AM REALLY, REALLY GREATFUL that we (USA-CANADA)
have one a hell of a fighting & killing machine in our armed forces and
are thus considered worldwide as being one of the TRULY STRONG PARTS
of the world.
It wouldn't be any fun to have a bunch of invading Russians, Chinese,
Mid-east Polyglot Soldiers thinking that since we`re sitting on a bunch
of VALUABLE STUFF and LAND, that maybe they'll just TAKE IT without asking!
Ergo, to prevent that sort of scenario we need to be STRONG MILITARILY
and keep it that way...and YOU need to get with the program of being
strong in every way possible on a personal basis in case we one day
need to DEFEND those freedoms and that space that we call home!!!
In my own personal case, I have running in my basement, a machine
I designed and built, that can scan 6 full 1920 by 1080 pixel 24 bit RGB,
ultra high speed HDTV streams at over 2000 frames per second
(YES! THAT'S TWO THOUSAND FPS!) and AUTODETECT and TRACK
over 1000+ objects simultaneously using simple video game
technology...and if I hook that thing up to say a 6000 rounds per minute
Gatling gun or better yet, a Million Rounds per Minute MetalStorm Gun,
it will KILL EVERYTHING it finds....completely automatically,
NO HUMANS NEEDED - PERIOD !!!!
Ergo, I can also make many THOUSANDS if not MILLIONS of copies of that
smart software in a few hours....Ergo, for the foreseeable future,
Canada and the USA will be safe from invasion by the Barbarian Hordes.
I'm doing my part because I personally KNOW how dangerous an
armed and powerful foe can be if left unchecked...in our case I say
speak softly and carry a VERY,VERY BIG STICK !!!!!!!!!!!!
Unfortunately, there WILL BE another Hitler somewhere out there,
with the great unwashed, mindless masses who'll follow him/her,
and the rest of us will have to pay for it with grueling hard work
and/or our lives in the face of almost insurmounstable strength
and power...thus I believe we can no longer afford to fight a war
with slow, uncritical humans...soon it'll have to be vast armies of
Terminators and Cylons doing all the dirty work and hopefully
we'll be first out the gate that that bit of High Tech!
I'm doing my part...What are YOU doing to protect our soft derriere's
from the eventual try at invasion and/or annihilation of our homeland?!?!?!
[edit on 2009/11/13 by StargateSG7]
Originally posted by calcoastseeker
If it wasn't for us Yanks saving the English's sorry arses from an all out invasion from Hitler, you would probably be the child of a German, speaking German and eating sauerkraut.
Study your history not the crap they teach you in school.
Originally posted by Mahree
It seems that your argument that the soldier on the battlefield in Iraq or Afghanistan should drop his/her weapons and refuse to fight because of taking the oath to defend the constitution. Your stand is that fighting in these wars is illegal. These members of the Armed Forces, in the same oath, are to obey the orders of the President of the United States.
oath for Armed Forces
quite a dichotomy, isn't it?
Originally posted by Prove_It_NOW
reply to post by Equinox99
I agree, however, I feel that the troops themselves (many) allow the culture to exist by not standing up to the politicians, and ENDORSING the war mentality. We need the soldiers to stop this, and only they can, IMO.
Because one day soon it might be Iran we venture into next, what then? With our economy on the brink and state budgets collapsing, I have a very good reason for my anger at the "military culture" right now who are calling for me to respect them at a time when I see them as welfare recipients sucking on the tit of government ON MY DIME, and then telling me to like it.
Screw that man, I'm not a doormat.
[edit on 12-11-2009 by Prove_It_NOW]
Originally posted by Uniceft17
Originally posted by Mahree
Yes it is. But it says ALL enemy's foreign and DOMESTIC. If you are given unconstitutional orders they have a duty to not abide by those orders. The President of the United States is an enemy of the constitution, actually pretty much every president we have had since I've been born has violated the constitution 100's if not 1000's of times.