Introducing: Millitary Free America!!

I have just enough time to read the OP's post and comment.

I see some people saying that once your enlisted you have no choice. (talking about fighting an unjust war or not) And your right. Once your enlisted your SOL. BUT...BEFORE enlist is when you need to look past the G.I. Bill and all the other goodies and really think. Is this war worth all of the innocent deaths> I mean, did we not have a military when 9/11 happened? And it didn't prevent that from happening. (if you believe it was the taliban or whatever)


Sorry, hard to get my point across, I'm really tired. I will check on this once I get some sleep and work is over.

Even the most neutral countries like Switzerland have a army in fact switzerland has a large army for the size of there country,

en.wikipedia.org...

The few countries without armies are Costa Rica, Panama, Dominica, and Grenada two of those countries the US was forced to send troops to invade.
one because it leader was a drug kingpin and the other when Cuba tried to over throw is government and fortify the island.

en.wikipedia.org...

All these countries with out armies relie on other countries or groups of countries for defense.

THe capacity to defend civilian, and other is strengh.

BUT using strengh for anything else is "evil".

It is the same for everyone : you have the right to defend yourself.

But beginning the conflict is a crime : So what are the war that have been directly began by use ? ( and cia ).

Killing million of people is a crime against humanity.

But not doing anything : is a crime of stupidity.


[edit on 12-11-2009 by psychederic]

reply to post by ANNED


And they have the best "underground miltary bases"(Switzerland)

[edit on 12-11-2009 by psychederic]

reply to post by crichton13


Mayhaps.... But this land My FAT BUM resides in was also OWNED already by a group of Folks commonly referred to as Native Americans. So, Wouldn't England Be the 1st terrorists/ Cronies/ Thugs of this Bedtime story?

How about this, We are all living in a Land that isn't ours, We are all Foreigners in our own homes.

Good day, and/or Good night.

Originally posted by network dude
reply to post by mooseinhisglory

 

I think you missed the point. I am pissed off at the snot nosed punks who think that because they disagree with the "war" that they can disrespect and even talk down to a soldier. Nobody I know thinks themselves heroes. All I have talked to and known were and are just doing their job. Jumping on a grenade to save a platoon is heroic. I fixed planes. Not heroic at all. But just because I served my country and went all over the world to fix these planes, doesn't mean I am responsible for the war in Afghanistan or any other country. That falls on the leaders or the nations. I want these kids to be smart enough ton know the difference.

I am a snot-nosed punk.

I disrespect YOU, as a member of the armed forces. You know why? Because YOU don't deserve any. I know for a fact that you would be 'dissed' by other members of the armed forces because your attitude stinks.

Sieg-Heil mein fuhrer! I am a civilian, therefore I'm lower down in the food chain than you - Shall I get in your belly? (Austin Powers Quote)

Just because someone decides that their career should take them down the route of the military, does NOT mean that a person qualifies for automatic respect / admiration. Quite the opposite in my view, I feel PITY for anyone desperate enough to think that their life needs to go in that direction.

I know full well the benefits of joining the military, and I know full well the drawbacks. Whatever floats your boat. But don't expect sympathy or respect from me when it all goes pear-shaped.

If you've done something worth being mentioned in dispatches, then I'll look at you in a different light. Until then, you're just another arrogant squaddie.

The Para.

Originally posted by FortAnthem

Most people complaining about "the military" are really complaining about the our foreign policy, and they have a point. This contry needs to learn to conduct it's foreign policy without resorting the constant threat of military invasion or assult.

I AM complaining about the military, including the corrupt politicians responsible for the military.

Those who serve swore to protect and defend the constitution of the United States, being in Iraq goes against everything the constitution stood for and what the founding fathers stood for. They have a moral duty to stand up and deny the orders they are given, WE don't have the power to end these wars obviously, the MILITARY does, all they have to do is do what is right and STAND UP to there commanders.

I'm tired of the "they are just following orders" argument, it's bs. How many time in history have soldiers said that and it didn't cut it? It didn't cut it then and it doesn't cut it now. They can do what is right, and that's not fighting for out tyrannical government!!

What brought down tyrannical governments in the past? Losing the support of the military is what did! Learn history or your doomed to repeat it.

And like I said in another thread, I support and salute the heroes that were actually defending our country and our freedoms, but our modern wars have nothing to do with that and being on ATS as long as some of you have you should know that by now to.

Deny Ignorance.



[edit on 11/12/2009 by Uniceft17]

reply to post by network dude


Thanks for posting this thread.

My Grandfather [WWII], Father and uncles [Vietnam] Both of my brothers and myself are Vets [80s] I've never considered myself a hero nor do I go around asking for recognition or bragging. Yes I do need to talk to people about it from time to time. My experiences are my business.


Now my son and two nephews are presently serving. My son came back from Iraq in March of this year after being in country 18+ months and has been stationed elsewhere. My nephews are in Afghanistan.


[atsimg]http://files.abovetopsecret.com/images/member/a1e0fa816010.jpg[/atsimg]

I have no issues with people expressing their opinions and opposition about the wars Iraq or Afghanistan. I will however defend the troops when some snot nosed Self-righteous pompous ethnophobic punks disrespects service men and women for doing their best in some of the worst possible situations.
[It gets personal]

They're not the ones who declared war.
Politicians do that.

If you don't like the wars then get off your rear and create REAL Change instead of spewing all this lip flapping BS from behind your monitors. Trolls hide behind a screen in the virtual world. What do they have to fear? Carpal tunnel syndrome from typing?


Enough said.


[edit on 13-11-2009 by SLAYER69]

War never changes.

It's crappy it's unwanted it downright unneeded and unwanted but somehow it happens. We all wish it did not happen but it dose.

I can find no hate in my heart for the ones that will fight for me.

reply to post by yoyobrains


Cheers! I have been mulling over this topic in my head for sometime. You have hit the nail on the thread.....sorry, couldn't resist, lol. I am a US Army Vet, Combat Engineer/Airborne. I have total respect for all my fellow vets and current soldiers....but I am sick of this power structure that is draining the life blood out of all of us. It is WE against THEM. The fight that needs to be waged is against them.
On the other hand, I do have to admit that the comments from those who disrespect our military does get me angry. It has nothing to do with who's a hero and who isn't.....it has all to do with TPTB using the power, we grant them with, unconstitutionally.
We the people can only change what needs changing. We have the power, we just need to wake up and realize it. Too many people just sit back and let life go by, thinking they don't matter. We all matter, each and everyone of us. And we can all make it happen....one at a time.....until there are millions of people demanding, I mean DEMANDING our country back. I hope that day comes soon, for we are running out of time.

Peace

reply to post by Uniceft17


Can you list several examples as to how US involvement in Iraq violates the Constitution? How about pointing out the UN resolutions stating the Iraq war was and is illegal?

I think it is useful to try and understand the feelings of all people involved in any kind of debate or discussion. I really don't think that anyone intentionally violates their perceptions of reality or reason. Their views are based on a lifetime of teaching, examples, experience, reasoning, and paradigm. As I thought about this topic being discussed, it occurred to me that we really have a spectrum of three different possible philosophical world-realities that might look something like this:

1) IDEALIST - A peaceful world with plenty of resources for everyone, nice parcels of land for everyone, where all people are enlightened, operating from high principles and ideals, fairly sharing the world's resources, and able to work out differences with civility and intelligence. In this world, war does not exist.

2) REALIST - A world with some truly limited resources and less-than-desirable land parcels, causing some countries to become jealous of others, giving rise to some aggression and attempted conquest, but where republics, democracies and kings are basically honest, dealing with the public honestly and openly. In this world, war is a real struggle between known enemies. While this kind of war is highly undesirable, it is a truthful and real outgrowth of resource imbalance/inequity and human fear.

3) ULTRA-REALIST - A world with a huge imbalance between countries and individuals, where a largely hidden elite-class of rulers use every device of psychological manipulation, especially deception, to subvert justice, enslave the masses, and erect a world of universal feudalism. In this world, freedom is only in appearance and war is a theatrical production, both fabricated as a means to accomplish the nefarious goals of the shadow rulers.

When considering the differences presented by people in this discussion, and in virtually every other discussion on ATS, I think it is important to see which of these 3 kinds of world-realities the individual is talking from.

To those who think that mankind SHOULD be living in type #1 (Utopia), any kind of war is anathema and any kind of soldiers are only a compromising "evil" to be shunned and discouraged.

Of course any soldiers or those who have been to war will see world type #1 as just "immature dreaming", and that the world is probably closer to type #2, where war is an unfortunate reality that must be dealt with, lest the jealous/ambitious enemy countries "take us over."

Then there are those who see that "all wars are just the play thing of the elite", so even the soldiers who go and fight are unwitting participants in some larger nefarious plan to subjugate humanity.

Naturally, anyone who is in the military now, or who has served in the past, wants to believe that those years of service were not wasted, and that they did something good by "serving their country." If indeed we live in reality #2, that would be the case, though an idealist would argue that only reality #1 is to be praised and that mankind should never esteem what is only an outgrowth of human weakness, jealousy and ambition.

I've also noticed that if a soldier learns of evidence that causes him/her to migrate from living in reality #2 to living in reality #3, it usually makes him/her angry, causing great inner conflict and hatred for the very military they "served" in.

Anyhow, it's interesting to read various responses to threads, and to notice how people clearly speak from their particular beliefs about what kind of reality we actually live in.

With that in mind, perhaps we could try to be less harsh with each other, and instead try to understand one another, and realize that nobody speaks from a truly empty mind...even though it may seem that way...

I think most Americans recognize the importance of having a strong military unit, for the safety of this country, but what I guess the argument should be is how centralized should the military be.

For example I was thinking last night what I think the founding fathers had in mind when creating this country. As you know most of them didn't like the idea of a standing army during peace time.
What my idea ended up being was this; America has only three national standing divisions of the military in this country Marines, Navy, and Air Force. The Army (& National Guard) should be dissolved and in it's place each state will create a trained militia that is under the control of said state until a time of war where the President can call on them. This would slash the national budget greatly and probably be just as secure and safe. This way the Military would be just as strong but less centralized and giving states the ability to individually protect themselves if attacked (border states especially). Just my 2 cents though.

Originally posted by stevegmu
reply to post by Uniceft17

 

Can you list several examples as to how US involvement in Iraq violates the Constitution? How about pointing out the UN resolutions stating the Iraq war was and is illegal?

I listen to Ron Paul, and if more Americans and politicians did we wouldn't be in all the messes we are in now.

Violating the Constitution With an Illegal War

And we went to war under UN Resolutions, that is illegal of and in itself.


[edit on 11/12/2009 by Uniceft17]

reply to post by 10001011


Not true.....we all, well most of us except Obama, were born in America. The terrorists you speak of are long dead. How and why we got here is past history. We are all Americans now, and like it or not we have to live with the past, as bloody and cruel as it was.
We have all let the machine become uncontrollable, unchecked and running amok. It is far over due for a complete over haul. Get this country back and running the way it should be. It's very simple, we have the playbook, we just need to get into the game.

Peace

The US being without a military would have to mean the entire world doing without ALL national/nationalistic militaries, which can or would happen only in NOT the world as we know it, which would mean enough people actually being in favor of eliminating secrecy-BASED government(s), which most by far today clearly aren't in favor of. Not holding my breath and/or crossing my fingers. Yippee as always.

reply to post by network dude

If there was no military in the United States, there would be no wars, there would be no hunger, there would be no problems...... for you. You would be dead. Some small country, probably like Columbia or Venezuela would stroll in here and kill you and take your stuff. All of it. They might have a go at your daughter or wife before killing them, but no matter. Dead is dead. Even in California. The land of liberal love and friendship. Hugo Chavez himself might move into a nice house in wine country.

Not a chance, even without a standing army, there are those in this country that would fight to the death. There are a lot of guns in the hands of the people thanks to the 2nd Amendment.

In rural areas the hunters are well armed, in the cities the gangsters and thugs are well armed, not to mention the police forces.

A ground assault on America would be a disaster for whoever was dumb enough to try even if there was no military.

If it wasn't for us Yanks saving the English's sorry arses from an all out invasion from Hitler, you would probably be the child of a German, speaking German and eating sauerkraut.

Study your history not the crap they teach you in school.

reply to post by network dude


oh right, i forgot that only people in the military know how to point a gun and shoot back.

What a silly scenario... as expected though we will ignore the "economic draft" as a reason for joining the service.

for as much as you talk about the low "quantities of intelligence" you create a similar void when you open your mouth to speech...

ps. Every man is born a warrior, the question is whether he will embrace this strength, or run from this curse...


[edit on 12-11-2009 by injunfeller]

Originally posted by star in a jar
Invading a country who had not attacked America: Korea, Vietnam, Afghanistan, Iraq- is not an act of heroism, it is a criminal act that never did us any favors and only breeds more terror. Do any of you have any idea of how much these wars cost us?

World War 1 was a battle between kings and World War 2 was caused by World War 1. World War 2 is probably the only war where there had been reasonable cause- the rest was just an exercise in terror and there is no heroism in terror. Seriously. Ask yourself this question: If China attacked America and we resisted, does it make us terrorists in their eyes?

I don't believe that anybody who fought in any wars are heroes- they are just tools, instruments of destruction- lest we forget who really caused all these wars- powerful men and women such as the Rothschilds and Rocketfellers who wanted it all while paying no mind to the suffering of those on the receiving end, on both sides.

War is not glorious, nor is it good or holy.

Is a hero a mother or father who sacrifices for child, or a soldier who shreds the 'enemy' du jour to pieces?

[edit on 12-11-2009 by star in a jar]

Wrong. Afghanistan had to turn over bin laden, they didn't we invaded to rid the taliban. Iraq needed to be disposed of, nobody in their right mind would say otherwise.

You need to think. Iraq was a economic threat to the US and military to other countries. You say the dumb thing anti-military people say; WW2 was justified, but these wars aren't.

The world is better off because of American military action and peace keeping. we actually save money when we enter a peace keeping operation.