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The ONLY kind of hate allowed on ATS

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posted on Nov, 13 2009 @ 12:27 PM
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Originally posted by oliveoil
reply to post by riley
 



I notice there is hate from chistians in this thread that you seem to have completely ignored..


Being the only Christian that I see now posting on the thread I assume your speaking of me.

The word hate is a strong word. I hope you did not see what I wrote as being hateful Because it was not. I call things how I see them.


No no nothing about you.. I actually agree with your posts so far.

I should have phrased it better- sorry about that.

[edit on 13-11-2009 by riley]




posted on Nov, 13 2009 @ 12:30 PM
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Let me help you try to understand why some people lash out. I am only trying to help people understand the mind set that can happen when you feel like you are treated.

I'm female, straight and have no religion. I hear comments almost every day from otherwise well intentioned male friends that make a crack about me being a woman. How I should get in the kitchen and make dinner. How if I talk back I deserve a smack down. They mean them as jokes. They are trying to be funny by being ironic, but after you hear it all the time on a regular basis there comes a point where, even though you know they don't mean it, you feel like you NEED to stand up for yourself.

In the same sense, being non-Christian, when I hear this is a Christian nation, it immediately makes me feel like that means I am an outsider. That I am somehow allowed to be here at the behest of Christians even though I am not one. As if I should feel privileged to be here because of that.

I know that some of you are rolling your eyes as you read this, but this is how I feel and this is most likely how others feel. I don't think the vast majority of people mean any harm by what they say but, at the same time, what they say does ignite a feeling of being seen as an outsider.

I haven't personally gotten to the point where I lash out and I don't feel like a victim, but I can understand how some can get to that point. To the point where they feel the need to have a signature that reads: "I don't hate Christians, I hate what they do".

This person may feel victimize by Christians. This person may not think that Christians mean any harm (just like my male friends don't) but this person most likely hates that they DO do things that make him/her feel the way he/she does.

Just like I don't hate my male friends, I hate the things they say that sometimes are a little hurtful.



posted on Nov, 13 2009 @ 12:39 PM
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Originally posted by dallasgboy

I see all kinds of different hate on this forum... I have even spouted some of my own ( not anti religious)...(but here it gos anyway) lol

I am going to try to make this point with out it sounding like anti - Christian hate speech Lol



I see I will have to take you to task as well. It's a shame you jumped right to the last page and started rambling on like you read the previous pages. Since you just assumed, allow me to correct your many misunderstandings. Then we can see if you are here to be a troll or are here to offer something to the conversation.



Its so cliche Christian, Why do Christians always think everyone is out to get them? And think they are being singled out? ( I believe they would call that paranoid delusion of granger)


You assumed that I was Christian thus I submitted a "cliche Christian" argument.
Not quite the case. I have said several times now (feel free to read through the previous pages to get a full idea of how the thread has matured) that I am not defending Christians. I simply mentioned that they (not we, us) have been targets of hate which seems to be allowed more then other groups which are prohibited from the same hate speech.



But whats funny is Christians think they can post their religious mumbo jumbo all over the web and everyone had just better live it learn it, and love it no questions asked. lol Then the Christians get all bent out of shape when %99.99999 of everyone else tells them where to shove their bible and exercise their right to free speech. Sounds arrogant and almost fascist to me.


Slow down bro. You seem pretty upset about this Christian topic and your post shows you have some aggression towards this issue. Why not provide some examples? Again, your call but it would help to have some examples rather then just a bunch of aggressive ramblings.



And as for that guys signature tag "i don't hate Christians I hate what they do" if your such a good christian instead of whining about it and trying to get the MODs on the forum to trample somebody 1st amendment rights in a attempt to get your way... Ignore it!!! I mean I'm not even a good christian, but when I bible verses posted someplace I accept we have freedom of speech and ignore it Grow up!


You almost make this too easy. You assumed your way through that whole thing and didn't even bother to close on a good note.
I still don't know why you have continued to put me in the Christian group. As I stated earlier in this thread (which it appears you didn't read), I am not apart of or defending this group. They are my example as I could make several more after learning from what some of the other posters have brought up. You can learn from this as well. There is no reason for you to close your mind on this. Also, ATS is a private site and you don't have any 1st amendment rights. But in the terms and conditions of ATS, you do have the right to post your ideas, opinions and thoughts without being harassed by hateful remarks and comments.

Please take a minute and review how the thread has grown otherwise you will continue to make remarks that are easily refuted. Thanks for posting your ideas in any event.



posted on Nov, 13 2009 @ 12:43 PM
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This is the way I always saw it. You can say anything you want about my church or religion but when you start talking about it's members it is a different story.
for example:

1.The church of X is a big piece of crap- Although this is a poor postying style people who post stuff like that will inevitably take it further and post something that will get their post removed or get them baned.

2. All Xs are a bunch of crazy retards- When you start talking about the people it is a little different and should be seen that way.

Most of the time 1 and 2 are allowed on the boards, but notice in example 2 if you were to put a race instead of a religion it would be called racisim and your post would be removed. I think the same standard should apply to religion.



posted on Nov, 13 2009 @ 01:02 PM
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I am a christian, and I have debated on ATS (God bless it!
) with many christians and non believers alike, who didn't believe what I believed or didn't agree with my beliefs and theologies, and was treated with the dignity and respect that everyone deserves. Not that they didn't provide evidence to support their views and argue against mine, just that they did it with respect and a sincere desire to "get to the bottom of it all", if you will, or maybe just out of love for a good thought provoking discussion. That being said, I have to somewhat agree with the OP. Not that christians receive so much worse treatment than any other demographic on ATS, certainly not. We can all cite sources on ATS where gays, muslims, etc were trolled, insulted, you get the point. But I have to say that every time I see someone say something about the "flying spaghetti monster", or "fairy tales", or referencing christians as mindless, zombies, etc, do you really expect us to not get a little pissed? Excuse my language. Many of you know me, many don't. Here on this very site I have spoken my thoughts on homosexuality, abortion, aliens, veracity of the bible, reptilians, time travelers, and a plethora of other off the wall, not commonly (in the real world anyway, lol) discussed subjects. In all of these things I am very, very opinionated, but I have always taken care not to hurt the feelings of others. Not to belittle their way of life because it doesn't mesh with mine. It has never been my intention to insult another for their beliefs. It is very difficult not to get offended when someone insults my Maker, my Creator, my Redeemer, just as I am sure it gets difficult not to be offended when someone calls you a *insert rude name for homosexuals*, a *insert racial slur*, a crackpot, etc. I think that we should all be interested in learning and sharing, and making this place what it was intended to be. The best place on the internet for the SHARING of IDEAS and CONSPIRACIES, as different as they may be. Not hurting and insulting our brothers whose background and life experiences have led them down a differnt path and school of thought than the rest of us. That is not denying ignorance my friends, that is contributing to it. Sorry, will get off soap box now.


[edit on 13-11-2009 by one_man24]

edited for spelling! BOTH times....


[edit on 13-11-2009 by one_man24]



posted on Nov, 13 2009 @ 01:16 PM
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Well if you want to participate at a debate forum, you have to learn to accept there are others that have the extreme opposite belief system that you have. Most of the athiests here stay within bounds and so do the Christians.

I haven't cared much when people attack my views; the thing that is a trigger for me are those that ridicule and say really nasty things about Jesus, the most loving person who ever lived. But then I just consider the source, and say a prayer for them.



posted on Nov, 13 2009 @ 01:20 PM
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reply to post by Roadblockx
 



I still don't know why you have continued to put me in the Christian group


Its only reasonable to put you in this Christian group from what you said.


First I want to say that I am on the fence when it comes to religion. I was raised a Christian (Baptist) and until a few years ago, believed heavily in God and His religion. I am not so sure anymore


Your either a Christian or you are not a Christian.

I think your just using this hate thing to justify your own feelings towards Christianity.Perhaps maybe to give you that reason to jump off that fence.





[edit on 13-11-2009 by oliveoil]



posted on Nov, 13 2009 @ 01:42 PM
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reply to post by Roadblockx
 


1. INDEED.

2. That's one of the main reasons I don't spend as much time hereon as I would otherwise.

3. A supermoderator once noted that most of the mods were atheists or agnostics. A principal or some other super mod denied that. However, it has certainly been my experience that most of the mods seem to operate out of those perspectives . . . too often with a thinly disguised or more often a fierce hostility toward Christian perspectives and postings.

4. Some of it also seems to be the demongraphics--particularly given it originated as a UK site with a lot of Aussies thrown in. A LOT of members seem to feel compelled to be fiercely hostile toward Christianity and usually in a full court relentless press sort of fashion. The mods seem to think that even extremely outrageous levels of that are quite OK.

5. However, let a Christian APPEAR BY SOME BIASED OBSERVER/MOD'S PERSPECTIVE to err even slightly toward being even merely less than respectful of Jihadi's, Islam, homosexuality etc. and the Christian poster is come down on quite harshly and usually rather instantly . . . often with threats and/or point loss/time outs. The double-standard aspect is one of the MOST OFFENSIVE aspects of ATS in such regards, imho. . . . and one of the most dishonest aspects about a lot of pronouncements on such scores.

6. Most of the time, I just don't care to wade through such hostility toward my values and perspectives. So I don't bother sharing that much on ATS any more. I have better things to do with my time and emotional energy.

7. If I'm going to have to put up with that kind of hostility so chronically and so outrageously, I'd rather it be in a context where it was more worth it. Sometimes, on some issues on ATS, it is somewhat worth it. Most of the time, it seems to not be.

8. I don't expect things to change. Most of the mods are not going to change their values. The demographics of the mods are not going to change that much.

8.1 I think the owners are honorable blokes who seem to earnestly make stabs at keeping things more or less equitable and even handed. I just don't think they will have the perspective nor the emotional energy on such issues to see the realities anywhere close to as we do about such things hereon. And, as has been noted a number of times, when one has to depend on volunteer moderating . . . one can't exactly be overly choosy nor too prissy and strict with mods who may otherwise be doing a good job but 'merely' hate Christianity etc.

9. The darkness is getting darker in the world. The Light will manifest dramatically but at unknown times and in unanticipated ways. It will be interesting to read the pontifications, if possible, then.

10. There are some precious small minority Christians hereon who do admirable courageous work. I think there's even a Christian mod.

11. I guess I'd encourage you to choose your battles and stand up for what you believe to be true hereon, regardless. The other sides certainly do.



posted on Nov, 13 2009 @ 02:03 PM
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reply to post by BO XIAN
 


I do see SOME bias in the mods but it is not THAT bad. From what i have noticed they do moderate the religious side more closely than the non-religious side on their own. However, every time i have made a legitimate complaint about a post I feel was offensive it was removed. And I am a scientologist so there have been many posts that i thought were offensive and were removed. But I try not to take EVERYTHING personally, i only complain about things that fall under number 2 that i posted above. For example i thought this was kind of funny.



I haven't seen you around the boards before but I commend you on your work against Cmdraleon. IMHO, this is exactly what ATS is about. Denying ignorance.... and the ignorant!

IRM

IfraRedMan left that on my profile then check out his sig
www.abovetopsecret.com...

edit to add:
I have seen a lot of christian posts removed for being Off Topic but i have seen a lot of posts that were off topic. Just popping in on a forum to say something like god is great and then making loooooong bible quotes in all caps is 99% of the time off topic.

[edit on 13-11-2009 by zaiger]



posted on Nov, 13 2009 @ 02:03 PM
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Originally posted by Roadblockx

You can't say anything racist or sexist but hate towards Christians is ok.


Christians invite the hatred. We have all sorts of forums here, and elsewhere, which Christians use as their pulpit to seek converts. People get fed up with that. Whether the subject is "aliens" or "911" or whatever, a Christian will invariably try to preach to us. Many of us are aware that the Christian religion, as well as other religions, are frauds to varying degrees. It's just that it seems only Christians think it's ok to invade a forum with their religious beliefs and hoist them upon everyone else in the guise of responding to a post. They don't seem to genuinely care about the subject at hand, they just want to preach, witness for jesus, and seek another sucker to be reeled into their fairy tale. If a person tries to post historical facts that contradict the veracity of the Christian faith on a Christian website forum, watch what happens to them. The same hypocrites that complain about hatred and free speech against Christians on ATS are the same clowns banning non-Christians from those sites. Yes, I think Christians are hated on many secular forums, not just this one, but they've asked for it...



posted on Nov, 13 2009 @ 02:18 PM
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reply to post by Visiting ESB
 


You are art imitating life.




posted on Nov, 13 2009 @ 02:18 PM
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I am a Christian, and I understand how you feel. However, I do not care if someone says they hate what I do. Whatever. You can hate me and say you hate me all you want. You can hate God and hate Jesus or whoever you want to hate all you want.

Just don't put your partial nude pics up as your avatar when I want to browse ATS. That offends me more. That speaks more worlds than any word. It's like saying, "I don't care about your ability to move freely about without flaunting myself in your face. I am going to make sure to interfere directly with your moral code. I am going to make sure that you feel shame wherever you go." Now, I can see how some people might feel some Christians make them feel this way, but what part about believing in the All-powerful God interferes with your "moral code"?

Besides, any "christians" who find themselves doing things that are intrusive or wrong are making the mistakes themselves. You can't blame their "religion" for their mistakes. What you're actually doing if you hate Christians is blaming them for their religion. That seems rather discriminatory. As a previous poster alluded, us Christians eventually become wise enough and smart enough to not care who hates us or says hateful things to us. In fact, we get more angry about the obvious attempts at discrediting or discouraging us by throwing stumbling blocks in our way. Oh, how many times have I wanted to exact revenge... so many times, but I could never bring myself to do it. I do not delight in knowing that I could be very powerful and dangerous if I wanted. Quite the temptation. I wonder if that is what it feels like for people who want to cast the stumbling block our way? Do you feel guilty? Do you feel that our desire to re-attain some semblence of purity is a weakness for you to prey? Does it bother you, almost like you might actually be pissing God off really bad? I was never an offensive person before I became a Christian. I was aggressive, but I never wanted to hurt anyone. I guess that made my transition pretty quick and painless in the beginning.

These are the kinds of things that do happen on ATS. Simple politics allow people to get away with these things. T&C are hardly enough to contain the number of innuendos. At no real fault to the Mods, they may not always understand a stumblingblock. Unless one is a Christian theirself, they may not realize when the moral abuse is happening. People who are secular find more humor in the things that are truly dangerous to us and less in the things that aren't really that damaging. I find people sticking up for Christians all the time, and the truth is, they don't even get it usually. Why are you defending me against a stupid "hate" line? Why not help get these partial nude pics banned? Why not help get modern secularists out of our government? Why not help with something that matters a little more to us?

But, even beyond that, I am not responsible for the stumbling blocks cast before me. There are obstacles no matter where I go. I choose where I go and I am responsible for this. So, I come to ATS, and therefore I have chosen to put myself in the path of any "abuse" of any form. So, I cannot really ask for much. I simply love to learn. If I became a monk in the middle of nowhere, my life would be meaningless. I would be a hypocrite. I must face any obstacles in my way. I must allow myself to be tempted to challenge myself and grow and learn how to reject later when I am weaker any temptations. That doesn't mean I like it.



posted on Nov, 13 2009 @ 02:20 PM
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How about this: Focus on the individual and his actions, and leave other people out of it? Example:

Jerry Falwell claimed he was ordered by God to collect $19 million.

A) Does that make Christianity, or the bible, or faith wrong?
OR
B) Does that Jerry Falwell wrong?

Answer: B

I have to tell you it kind of embarrasses me as a human when someone takes a case like that or ANY OTHER case like that, and uses it 'prove' Christianity or the Bible is wrong.

It has NOTHING to do with scripture or faith. It has EVERYTHING to do with the individual.

Therefore making a statement that categorizes such actions as a group of people, is in fact ignorant. It is NOT the group, it is the individual. I realize that personal responsibility is rapidly fading into the distant past, and maybe I am too old and idealistic and -principled-, but making a statement like "I don't hate Christians, I hate what they do" is nothing more than a sophomoric attempt to veil hate speech, otherwise, why is it so important to say, that one would have it affixed every time they sign a post?

If you want to explain such a sentiment in the context of a discussion thread, that's one thing, but when you make a categorical statement which summarily dismisses an entire group, stereotyped by your interpretation of the actions of a few, then you have crossed the line from discussion and open-mindedness into negative stereotyping of a group, aka as "hate", "ignorance" et. al.



posted on Nov, 13 2009 @ 03:30 PM
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reply to post by Roadblockx
 


I agree with the OP.

I do perceive ATS to be filled with Christian slamming posts. I am not against free speech, and I'm not even a Christian, but the playing field doesn't seem to be fair.

Posters get disciplined by having posts removed for T&C violations, or off-topic posts, for pointing out the absurdity in any number of bizarre threads and 'out there' ideas (some are really laughably horrible and fantastical), yet anti-christian sentiment seems to have full reign.

It's not consistent, and I have to admit it dissapoints me often that the normally on the ball administration here doesn't seem to be playing this issue straight.



posted on Nov, 13 2009 @ 04:03 PM
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To be fair, Even the most extream Christians and Jews tend to not blow thems selves up when some one offend thier prophet or holy book. It makes them a more easy target. I am not a religious man, and I do make off color jokes about religion from time to time, but I know that if someone has issue with what I say, I will retract and appoligise, who am I to say they are wrong? After all I cant disprove what they say.



posted on Nov, 13 2009 @ 04:33 PM
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I'm with the OP on this one.

I've only been around ATS for a few months but when I saw that guy's signature line, it irked me (yes, it "irked" me; loevely word, eh?). And in Hollywood land, US museums, and college campuses, all lands of the libs, you often see Christian-bashing as the accepted norm. Frankly, it's disgusting.



posted on Nov, 13 2009 @ 04:55 PM
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Sadly, after reading and hanging out and reading ATS for several years, THIS is the thread that gets me to join. My only comment on this is about what the OP mentioned about the sig line, "I don't hate Christians, I hate what they do." Isn't what people do part of who they are? That's like saying, I don't hate Mods, I hate what they do. But isn't what they do what defines them as a Mod? So in fact, hating what someone does is in fact hating them. Deny ignorance? Not that I've seen in this thread by those justifying the hate.



posted on Nov, 13 2009 @ 04:58 PM
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reply to post by pncshn
 


Once again, I have frequently seen Christians say the same thing about gay people. "I don't hate the sinner, I hate the sin." Also rendered as, "I don't hate gays, I hate what gays do."

The OP is complaining about something absolutely no different. There is no double-standard here.



posted on Nov, 13 2009 @ 05:04 PM
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reply to post by Roadblockx
 


"But, everyone else on ATS should be able to have an opinion without you or anyone else sending hateful comments their direction."

I absolutely agree with you. We have no argument.

You partially busted me on skimming the thread though. Sometimes threads end up disintigrating and I like to stay on topic. I should have read with greater intensity to your post. At least I'm honest and not being rude, lying, deceitful or shaming you into my own belief system.

My Apologies.....no harm, foul



posted on Nov, 13 2009 @ 05:10 PM
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reply to post by bsbray11
 


The "they do it too argument" is invalid. When the Christians do that, they should be penalized also. The rules should not be fair, the rules should be equal. Everybody gets treated the same for the same infraction. I'm not defending the Christians, I"m just tired of seeing the hate go unpunished, be it from the people bashing Christians or the Christians doing the bashing. If this board is really here to deny ignorance, then ban all hate speech the same. Hate = Ignorance. It doesn't matter who spews it, it is the same. Do not justify one group while punishing another for the same offense.



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