What evidence would accept to prove 9/11 was an inside job?

reply to post by mmiichael


actual, people USED to roll their eyes. now, most are in agreement.
i knew it was an inside job on 9/11 by the obvious fact that the towers EXPLODED.
i could make a list of evidence ten thousand words long, and you would still say, "there is no evidence". it is a legal tactic. deny, deny, deny.
wave your hands blue, helen keller.

reply to post by snusfanatic


maybe these people just don't like the smell of anthrax.
i'm sure any incriminating documents are long ago shredded. some were probably in building seven, fer chrissakes.
i think you underestimate the magnitude of black budgets and secret services which have the power to keep secrets from the damn president, even.

Originally posted by billybob
actual, people USED to roll their eyes. now, most are in agreement.
i knew it was an inside job on 9/11 by the obvious fact that the towers EXPLODED.
i could make a list of evidence ten thousand words long, and you would still say, "there is no evidence". it is a legal tactic. deny, deny, deny.
wave your hands blue, helen keller.

Most are in agreement about Truther logic. Go out on the street and do a random survey.

Maybe you had a brain infarction and are confused now. Towers collapsed due to structural failure caused by steel frames losing support strength. Proven by people who actually looked at all the evidence and know what they're talking about.

They have produced a list of evidence over a hundred thousand words long.

You just claim you CAN produce a different list.

A lot of people make a lot of claims about things they can do.

People only care about results.

Except for dreamers.

Originally posted by TrickoftheShade
Bsbray, do you think that you should use "Foreigner" as a pejorative term?

When and if I think it's relevant, sure. In this case mmiichael is not a US citizen yet is putting on like he knows all about life and sentiments in rural Virginia, when it's obvious to me as a natural citizen here, that he doesn't.

Also I note you approvingly quote Woodrow Wilson, which given your screwball parochial politics is ironic.

Just because he didn't share my isolationist sentiments doesn't mean he didn't make a good (and relevant) point in that quote.

reply to post by Joey Canoli


Yes, I am going on 22 in January. And how old are you?

Originally posted by mmiichael
The advantage of age is increased knowledge, understanding, and experience that can lead to greater self-awareness.

And how old are you?


As long as we want to play the ad hom pissing contest, I've been in "gifted" classes since I was in 2nd grade and was tested and found to have an IQ in the range of 130-140 -- when I was in 2nd grade.

Not that that is any more relevant to any of this than how old we are, since they are both ad hom in the way you are trying to use them. And I happen to be old enough to know what a logical fallacy is.

mmichael (et al), here's enough evidence to a least make anybody with a hint of a logical mind to raise an eyebrow

now, if you can look at that, and still defend these "experts" (from the NIST), it will only reaffirm that you have an agenda, and YOU are the one who ignores evidence and science in favour of your preconceived notions.

Originally posted by mmiichael
Truthers believe what they do because that's what they so deeply want to believe. They ignore hard facts in favour of wishful thinking.

Based on from what i've seen in these threads so far, that description would be more suitable for the OS believers.

Originally posted by technical difficulties

Originally posted by mmiichael
Truthers believe what they do because that's what they so deeply want to believe. They ignore hard facts in favour of wishful thinking.

Based on from what i've seen in these threads so far, that description would be more suitable for the OS believers.

I don't even know what this Official Story is. Haven't watched TV since 1994.

Here's what I know. 9/11 happened in public on broad daylight. What ordinary people watched happening and what the government says happened match up totally.

A dozen Muslim extremists and facilitators have confessed to their participation in the plot. Khalid Sheikh Mohammed who with Ramzi Yousef put it all together has confessed to planning and co-ordinating - providing names, places, details which all match up.

A few attention seekers and opportunists have crawled out of the woodwork claiming something different happened. Just like whenever there's a serial killer on the loose cops get calls from nutcases saying they know their neighbour did it, it's their husband, it's a government plot, involves aliens, satan worshippers, etc.

Nobody takes this seriously. Eyewitnesses, hard evidence, consistent testimony and confessions are what that counts.

Because we are on a forum where there are a lot of young impressionable kids, rebellious college students, a cross section of conspiracy nuts, paranoiacs, schizophrenics making up a good portion of the audience sharing the same belief in some mega-conspiracy cover-up doesn't make it any truer.

8 years, 2 month later, endless talk, speculation, trumped up evidence, manipulated data, malicious videos, faked videos, plain dopey videos, later - not a shred of evidence contradicting what everyone around here likes to call the Official Story.

So do you believe the eyewitnesses, the fingerprints and DNA, the confession? Or do you believe the the story that it was the secret Satan worshippers?



[edit on 26-11-2009 by mmiichael]

Originally posted by mmiichael

Originally posted by technical difficulties

Originally posted by mmiichael
Truthers believe what they do because that's what they so deeply want to believe. They ignore hard facts in favour of wishful thinking.

Based on from what i've seen in these threads so far, that description would be more suitable for the OS believers.

I don't even know what this Official Story is. Haven't watched TV since 1994.

Earth to Michael: You have the internet.

But the official story is simple: Muslim Extremists hijack 4 planes, crash one into the pentagon, lost control of one and crashed into a field, and crashed the other two into the twin towers, causing a fire, therefore causing them to collapse into themselves.

Here's what I know. 9/11 happened in public on broad daylight. What ordinary people watched happening and what the government says happened match up totally.

That's nothing more than personal conjecture. Not all witness testimony matched up with the official story.

A dozen Muslim extremists and facilitators have confessed to their participation in the plot. Khalid Sheikh Mohammed who with Ramzi Yousef put it all together has confessed to planning and co-ordinating - providing names, places, details which all match up.

What's your source?

A few attention seekers and opportunists have crawled out of the woodwork claiming something different happened. Just like whenever there's a serial killer on the loose cops get calls from nutcases saying they know their neighbour did it, it's their husband, it's a government plot, involves aliens, satan worshippers, etc.

In your opinion.

Nobody takes this seriously. Eyewitnesses, hard evidence, consistent testimony and confessions are what that counts.

And the Truth movement possesses that, so I really don't see the problem here, other than your biased attitude against truthers.

Because we are on a forum where there are a lot of young impressionable kids, rebellious college students, a cross section of conspiracy nuts, paranoiacs, schizophrenics making up a good portion of the audience sharing the same belief in some mega-conspiracy cover-up doesn't make it any truer.

You saying an entire forum is full of crazy people doesn't make it true.

8 years, 2 month later, endless talk, speculation, trumped up evidence, manipulated data, malicious videos, faked videos, plain dopey videos, later - not a shred of evidence contradicting what everyone around here likes to call the Official Story.

Of course you're going to say that. No one likes to be wrong. It's totally understandable for you to ignore all of the evidence presented by the opposing side and remain thinking that you're right. A lot of people do it, some do it because it gives them a rush or something like that (www.msnbc.msn.com...). I've seen it a lot from the OS believers, and a few Truthers.

So do you believe the eyewitnesses, the fingerprints and DNA, the confession? Or do you believe the the story that it was the secret Satan worshippers?

I believe in the laws of physics, so naturally, i'm not going to agree with "planes did it" as to why the two towers both collapsed into themselves, therefore, I don't believe in the official story.





[edit on 26-11-2009 by technical difficulties]

[edit on 26-11-2009 by technical difficulties]

Originally posted by technical difficulties
I believe in the laws of physics, so naturally, i'm not going to agree with "planes did it" as to why the two towers both collapsed into themselves, therefore, I don't believe in the official story.

Great opportunity for the Truth Movement and it's True Believers.

In the real world (check outside the closest window - unless you're in a basement) Khalid Shekh Mohammed, who with Ramzi Yousef, planned and co-ordinated the 9/11 plane attacks, is coming to the US to stand trial.

You can explain to him how he worked out details, coached hijackers, co-ordinated funds, etc - his team did not really hijack those planes and it was a government false-flag operation.

A real explanation is needed why he confessed and provided details of the plan and how it lines up perfectly with recorded conversation, wire transfers, credit card receipts, photographs, and a few thousand other pieces of evidence gathered in a dozen countries.

Do I think Truthers are dumb? Prove to me otherwise.


M







[edit on 27-11-2009 by mmiichael]

Confessions of people saying that they planted the explosives not people saying "well... I sorta kinda think I saw somebody that had a weird looking box go into the building...", a video showing that the plane wasn't hijacked by terrorists but by some government official, a video of Osama Bin Ladin saying that they actually didn't do it, and a picture of the explosives that is GOOD QUALITY. Not just some grainy shot of a white spot that is supposed to be explosives.

Originally posted by mmiichael
Do I think Truthers are dumb? Prove to me otherwise.

At this point I'm sure the feelings are mutual, and rants like the one you just posted, like the ones you always post, don't do much to change that.

Originally posted by bsbray11

Originally posted by mmiichael
Do I think Truthers are dumb? Prove to me otherwise.

At this point I'm sure the feelings are mutual, and rants like the one you just posted, like the ones you always post, don't do much to change that.

I note no one even wants to mention what I said about Khalid Sdheikh Mohammed, the detained confessed co-planner of 9/11. He's the man who can tell you if there WTC was a controlled demolition. He trained the hijackers and co-ordinated the project.

But around here finding out anything about 9/11 that actually is true would spoil everybody's Wet Dream.

So keep looking for that thermite, keep watching those frame by frame videos with all the red arrows, keep showing how outraged, indignant, betrayed you feel.

Problem is the only ones impressed are others who also have serious problems coping with reality.


M



[edit on 27-11-2009 by mmiichael]

look, mmichael, people can be tortured, brainwashed, and otherwisely coerced.
the laws of nature cannot.
seeing as you dodged and ignored the hard evidence i posted, i'll embed it in this thread. although i feel pretty confident that you'll still ignore it with another bait and switch attempt.

the NIST simulation:

[atsimg]http://files.abovetopsecret.com/images/member/703b6eda63c4.jpg[/atsimg]

looks NOTHING like the reality:

[atsimg]http://files.abovetopsecret.com/images/member/59f09fdfb151.jpg[/atsimg]

and this:

[atsimg]http://files.abovetopsecret.com/images/member/d59d9048871e.gif[/atsimg]

yes, there are arrows. they are there for the less observant among us.

what you are seeing is debris exploding out of the tower AHEAD of the debris which has been freefalling for hundreds of feet. that violates the law of conservation of energy. it is PROOF of demolition.

and, here is another example:

[atsimg]http://files.abovetopsecret.com/images/member/953da5e3d453.gif[/atsimg]

the vertical length of the purple line represents the distance traveled by the freefalling debris, and the vertical length of the blue line represents the pace at which the debris is exploding out of the building.
the longer blue line means the explosions are progressing earthward faster than the freefalling debris.
there is no way something can fall through the inside of the building faster than debris can fall through air.


[edit on 27-11-2009 by billybob]

Originally posted by billybob
look, mmichael, people can be tortured, brainwashed, and otherwisely coerced.
the laws of nature cannot.

the vertical length of the purple line represents the distance traveled by the freefalling debris, and the vertical length of the blue line represents the pace at which the debris is exploding out of the building.

the longer blue line means the explosions are progressing earthward faster than the freefalling debris.

there is no way something can fall through the inside of the building faster than debris can fall through air.

You have no professional experience or knowledge of structural engineering, demolition, building fires, architecture, and any of the other disciplines that could provide a knowledgeable analysis. You rely totally on the word of amateurs who pretend they do.

I don't believe you or most people here care about what happened on 9/11. It's an excuse to work out some feelings of betrayal and anger. The Government Lied. Daddy Lied.

You've all decided the result you want and ignore whatever conflicts.

You're right about people being brainwashed.

Good luck in dealing with complex problems in your future life.





[edit on 27-11-2009 by mmiichael]

reply to post by mmiichael


and, he lines up, there it is!! the bait and switch, folks! he tries to take a base, but falls flat on his face. and, "YEEEEEEUUUUUUUR OUT!!".

HAHAHA!!!!

all the structural and mechanical engineers i've discussed this with NEVER question my abilities to understand BASIC physics. attack my evidence, don't attack me. i think i'm going to report you for trolling if you don't respond to the FACTS that i just posted. it's twice now you've dodged this hard evidence that actually PROVES 9/11 was an inside job.

and, P.S. you have NO IDEA what my skill set is, so back the eff off.

Originally posted by billybob
reply to post by mmiichael

 

and, he lines up, there it is!! the bait and switch, folks! he tries to take a base, but falls flat on his face. and, "YEEEEEEUUUUUUUR OUT!!".

HAHAHA!!!!

all the structural and mechanical engineers i've discussed this with NEVER question my abilities to understand BASIC physics. attack my evidence, don't attack me. i think i'm going to report you for trolling if you don't respond to the FACTS that i just posted. it's twice now you've dodged this hard evidence that actually PROVES 9/11 was an inside job.

and, P.S. you have NO IDEA what my skill set is, so back the eff off.

I would say we know your skill set. Looking at conspiracy websites and videos. Believing anything that lines up with your fantasies.

Didn't we discuss things on another thread and you were telling the story of how the bin Ladens worked on the construction of the WTC in the 60s and pre-planted bombs in the walls?

A Saudi company where no one spoke English which had never worked on anything bigger than a palace or a mosque. But supposedly they were consulted on the tallest most modern most complex structures in history?

But some guy who worked there at a low level drafting job told you so. So it must be true.

I'm sorry for expressing a strong opinion on this story. It's lunacy.

When I type these messages I feel like I'm doing rehab in a Psych Ward.


M





[edit on 27-11-2009 by mmiichael]

Originally posted by bsbray11

Originally posted by TrickoftheShade
Bsbray, do you think that you should use "Foreigner" as a pejorative term?

When and if I think it's relevant, sure. In this case mmiichael is not a US citizen yet is putting on like he knows all about life and sentiments in rural Virginia, when it's obvious to me as a natural citizen here, that he doesn't.

My point has nothing to do with your suggestion that he doesn't understand rural Virginia - although given the lurid tones in which you paint life under the yoke of the US NWO, I'm certainly glad I don't live there.

I'm pointing out that you use the term with relish, as though being "foreign" is somehow inferior. Given the tenor of your arguments about how awful America is I'd infer the reverse. And it's amusing, from someone so touchy about "hate speech".

Also I note you approvingly quote Woodrow Wilson, which given your screwball parochial politics is ironic.

Just because he didn't share my isolationist sentiments doesn't mean he didn't make a good (and relevant) point in that quote.

Another thing occurs. You're fond of going off about Prescott Bush and how eeeeevil his dealings with nazi Germany were.

Presumably as an isolationist you would have done exactly the same thing, and indeed continued to do so through a war that the Nazis would likely have won.

Also, do you think that if the South had won the civil war you'd still be allowed to own slave? Maybe keep "foreigners" to work in your plantation?

Originally posted by TrickoftheShade
My point has nothing to do with your suggestion that he doesn't understand rural Virginia - although given the lurid tones in which you paint life under the yoke of the US NWO, I'm certainly glad I don't live there.

I'm pointing out that you use the term with relish, as though being "foreign" is somehow inferior. Given the tenor of your arguments about how awful America is I'd infer the reverse. And it's amusing, from someone so touchy about "hate speech".

Just because he didn't share my isolationist sentiments doesn't mean he didn't make a good (and relevant) point in that quote.

Another thing occurs. You're fond of going off about Prescott Bush and how eeeeevil his dealings with nazi Germany were.

Presumably as an isolationist you would have done exactly the same thing, and indeed continued to do so through a war that the Nazis would likely have won.

What a fantastic post. Bravo.

Here I sit in my strange ethnic garb. drinking some disgusting concoction, laughing with my strange unintelligible speech pattern. My command of English is poor, I'm not very sophisticated in the manners of American culture, but I do agree with the points of sheer hypocracy you have highlighted.

There are people who troll these discussion looking for every opportunity to inflate themselves at the expense of other contributors.

They usually lack any modicum of self control, make increasingly outrageous claims, and ultimately humiliate themselves.

God Bless America. Somebody has to look after the US. There are so many people there confused as to whether they love or hate themsleves.

Thanks for the needed blast of fresh air.


Mike




[edit on 27-11-2009 by mmiichael]

If my history is correct, the US was isolationist at the beginning of the war until Japan attacked its territory at Pearl Harbor. The US then declared war on Japan, which in no way is contrary to isolationism policy. And then Germany and Italy declared war on the US and we then declared it in return.

news.bbc.co.uk...

Isolationism does not say you do not respond when you are attacked, nor does it say you support your national enemies when you're country is at war.

en.wikipedia.org...

With all these declarations flying around it seems Prescott didn't get the memo and continued his support up until October 20, 1942, almost a year after all these declarations.

www.guardian.co.uk...
"No further action was ever taken nor was the investigation continued, despite the fact UBC was caught red-handed operating a American shell company for the Thyssen family eight months after America had entered the war and that this was the bank that had partly financed Hitler's rise to power."

If history was fair and balanced there should have been a "nazi scare" just like there was a "red scare" but we know who really holds the reigns of power from this simple fact alone. It's interesting to read the US Senate's conclusions from 1974 about the automakers during the war (www.corpwatch.org...):

"Due to their multinational dominance of motor vehicle production, GM and Ford became principal suppliers for the forces of fascism as well as for the forces of democracy. It may, of course, be argued that participating in both sides of an international conflict, like the common corporate practice of investing in both political parties before an election, is an appropriate corporate activity. Had the Nazis won, General Motors and Ford would have appeared impeccably Nazi; as Hitler lost, these companies were able to re-emerge impeccably American. In either case, the viability of these corporations and the interests of their respective stockholders would have been preserved."

Since corporations are an integral part of the American power structure, I see every reason to "hate" this duplicitous aspect of American culture.