Originally posted by Raud
reply to post by MysterE

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I would still stick to my opinion though, the former administration did wreck the system as if there was no tomorrow (which it in fact wasn't, for their sake).

A thread with your post as OP might have done better.

Still, it doesn't prove Obama is the reason for all this. But your point is totally taken.

"the annual produce of the land and labor"..Wealth creation is combining materials, labor, land, and technology so there is an excess for trade to others, that is “a profit” in excess of the cost of production. The theories of David Ricardo, John Locke, John Stuart Mill, and Henry Thornton, in the last three centuries refined the views of wealth and became known as classical economics.

Money: Is Coin, Currency (paper money), and Credit. If the paper money is not backed by gold, silver or other “wealth” it is a fiat currency and only as good as the people's ignorance of its origin. Federal Reserve notes, and credit is “created” by banks and backed by nothing.




As I said before we need to get past the left/right junk to where the battle really is:serf vs banker.

If you want to be intellectually honest, Bill Clinton wrecked the economy beyond repair

* Sound recording industries - 97%
* Commodity contracts dealing and brokerage - 79%
* Motion picture and sound recording industries - 75%
* Metal ore mining - 65%
* Wineries and distilleries - 64%
* Database, directory, Book and other publishers - 63%
* Cement, concrete, lime, and gypsum product - 62%
* Engine, turbine and power transmission equipment - 57%
* Rubber product - 53%
* Nonmetallic mineral product manufacturing - 53%
* Plastics and rubber products manufacturing - 52%
* Other insurance related activities - 51%
* Boiler, tank, and shipping container - 50%
* Glass and glass product - 48%
* Coal mining – 48%

think Bill Cosby has it in perspective:

Bill Cosby has a great way of "distilling" things. Looks like he's done it again!

Originally posted by Raud
I just can't stand the totally ignorant "Obama-bashing" over the economic situation in the USA (yeah, I used the term "ignorant" and I used it properly for once in this forum).

The totally rampant dislike of President Obama needs some form of perspective.
I don't call on every American man, woman and child to blindly embrace the "new" administraion. In fact, I want them to be awake and always observe their government with a healthy dose of critisism. Your country and its leaders are there to serve you and protect your liberties. Not the other way around (which it has been like many times over in history, not only in the USA).

But let's cut to the chase here; this thread is about the following:

Before you accuse and disrespect President Obama over the economics, take a look at the mess he has to clean up!
I am talking about the craziness during the 8 prior years to the current Presidents time in office.
There you will find why unemployment and tax increase are the only bitter reality!

Read. Think. Understand. Revaluate. Talk. Walk.

July 31st, 2008

"The current administration will leave the nation with its largest deficit in history"

Committee on the budget

This and other efforts of the “Bush Legacy Project” to rehabilitate the last administration’s job creation image and defend its tax cuts ignore the stark reality that the Bush administration’s tax policies fostered the weakest jobs and income growth in more than six decades, and ignored alarming labor market trends in minority communities. This record of anemic job creation was accompanied by sluggish business investment and weak gross domestic product growth that characterized the period after the Bush tax cuts of 2001 and 2003 went into effect.

Center for American Progress

This one is a little older, but still valid:

The Administration and congressional Republicans predicted that the President's tax cut plan would turn the economy around. Those predictions proved false - instead of a quick economic turnaround, the country still has fewer jobs than it did when the recession began three and a half years ago. This is the longest period of job losses since the Great Depression.

Democratic Policy Committee

So, the current President is to blame for this?
I think not!

[edit=fix thread title]


[edit on 12-11-2009 by Raud]

Obama in my book is getting a "C" in economic recovery policies right now.....but I reserve the right to adjust my grade upwards or downwards 6 months from now.

What has been done to the USA and the money supply?
1985 -- $205 billion -- up $103 billion
1994 -- $406 billion -- up $201 billion
2006 -- $808 billion -- up $402 billion
2008 -- $831 billion -- up $23 billion
2009 -- $1663 billion -- up $921 billion

Money supply research.stlouisfed.org...


By April 2009 The Fed PRINTED close to a TRILLON dollars in three months, with Obama's blessing and thereby doubled the money supply. Bankers LEND money to the US government at interest and the US government grants bankers the right to PRINT that money out of thin air. Worse for every three dollars in treasury notes issued that a bank “buys” the bank can create $97 worth of “credit” or fairy dust. American labor will now have to pay all that counterfeit money back to the bankers along with interest. What happens to the value of the dollar over seas during all this “money printing” The Chinese and Russians want to replace the dollar as the internationally recognized trade currency. If the rest of the world refuses to accept the dollar we will have a “soft currency” worthless outside the USA.


Now think about all the money Congress is spending. The treasury will create bonds to cover the amount as the above table has shown. The question is do these numbers represent the multiplier effect yet? I would think not since there has not been enough time for banks to lend out the same dollar to ten different people and then collecting the interest and principle back...

So what will the effect of creating this huge amount of money cause the American dollar to be seen as “soft “ currency? Will the USA see confidence lost on the dollar and an international run on the Federal Reserve as was seen in 1933? Is this why the US government is assigning “premises ID” to valuble farmland and livestock?

Hard Currency: “American currency is so stable that it is used world wide for business deals and ventures...Soft currency on the other hand is defined as a country's currency which is not acceptable in exchange for currency of other countries, due to unrealistic exchange rates. www.freeonlineresearchpapers.com...

In the coming months and years will the US dollar lose its "hard Currency" status, will it become a "soft currency with no real value? Will we need a wheelbarrow full of dollar bills to buy a loaf of bread?

They [founders of the Fed] gave large amounts of money to some of the better known universities in America; they created newly formed departments of economics with that money; they hand picked their own people to be the professors to head up those departments and then those professors with all of their academic credentials gave speeches and wrote scholarly essays extolling the virtues of the Federal Reserve System. A Talk by G. Edward Griffin Author of The Creature from Jekyll Island

This is how it works. Its almost like every current president is never responsible for the time they are in office, only for the years following their term/s.

Jan 16, 2009 The Market Oracle

.... The government reports an unemployment rate of 7.2% to the public. This figure does not include discouraged workers or marginally attached workers. A discouraged worker is one who is willing, able and ready to work but has given up looking because there are no jobs to be had.

This level is currently 13.8%. During the Clinton administration, The Party decided that if you were discouraged for more than a year, you no longer counted. If these people are included, the current unemployment rate is 17.8%. This is a comparable figure to the 25% rate from the Great Depression. If you use the non-seasonally adjusted change in employment figures, the U.S. lost 2.8 million jobs in 2008. In this figure is a made up number that is supposed to account for the number of jobs gained or lost by small business. This birth/death model adjustment added 904,000 phantom jobs in 2008. This is an insult to the intelligence of all thinking American....

When using the real inflation figures, you realize that we have been in a recession since 2000. This explains why the majority of Americans have fallen behind in the last eight years. The median household income was $50,557 in 2000. Using the government CPI adjusted figure for 2007, median household income had fallen to $50,233. If you used real inflation, the figure would be in the range of $47,000. Trickle down hasn't worked as advertised. Only the rich ruling elite surged ahead. The criminals on Wall Street partied like it was 1999, while the middle class fell further into oblivion. Now that the rich are losing their shirts in the market, we have a REAL crisis. All the government information manipulators are working around the clock to spin the story in a way that will ensure permanent government control of our economy and our lives....