Did Satan inspire the Old testament

Ive been reading an interesting thread here about christian terrorism www.abovetopsecret.com... and to cut a long story short it seems that you cannot follow christ and be a terrorist as he did not preach violence of any sort. If you kill people you cannot be a christian (you can say you are, but would are not !)

But that is new testament sentiment. The old testament has a vengfull god who directs his followers to kill non believers, who himself is quite partial to a bit of bloodletting. Are we talking about the same god here, new testament god, old testament god ?

In the new testament we also have instructions about not using mystical techniques (eg tarot) to predict the future, but in the old we have jehovah making prophesy (which incidentally fails, eg Caine never settling, which he does....i'll post more if you like, but i'm sure anyone interested in this subject will already know or do their own checking) youtube video here also, made by a muslim but who else is going to do this sort of whistle blowing ? www.youtube.com...

Lets say for example that God created the universe and set the laws of physics in motion, satan comes along and says "I am god, jehovah, write down my story" and the old testamnet is then the story of his time influencing the world.

This seems to make more sense than an all loving god overseeing the violence, prophesy and tricks of the OT. Satan is the great deciever, maybe he's cleverer than a lot of people imagined and people worship him beacuse he has said he is god, maybe this is his reign on earth, as an imposter.

Jesus, it seems, is poles apart from the god of the OT.

[edit on 12-11-2009 by Wobbly Anomaly]

reply to post by Wobbly Anomaly


Nah. The ancient Israelites wrote it.

Which, if you happen to be a Midianite, is saying about the same thing.

Seriously, no. The Old Testament and new testament are simply the product of two different cultures separated by a few hundred years.

Originally posted by TheWalkingFox
reply to post by Wobbly Anomaly

 

Nah. The ancient Israelites wrote it.

Which, if you happen to be a Midianite, is saying about the same thing.

Seriously, no. The Old Testament and new testament are simply the product of two different cultures separated by a few hundred years.

I dont disagree with you, but i did phrase the original post to speak to people who do believe. Whatever your stance there is disparity between the OT and the NT which if you are a believer is something that needs addressing. Obviously if you dont believe it is neither here nor there, but we are talking about stories that effect and influence the actions of millions of people so in that respect, whatever your stance, there are some serious questions that arise.

Satan inspired ALL rebellion against God .


Satan would not destroy people for being evil.

God gives second chances , and a new covenant .


Many western soldiers are christians . God understands this .


god is not evil . patience has its limits . Rebellion will be put down .

Jesus will not be so forgiving second time round .

reply to post by Wobbly Anomaly


but, alas, jesus himself claims to be the fufillment of the OT. and come on, in all fairness the god of the OT wasn't all that bad. he did lay down the law against murder, rape, etc. it also expresses that there is only one and supreme god who spoke the universe into existence.

beingsuch an ancient text the OT was bound to pick up some stuff here and there throughout the centuries from other cultures, represent the laws and teachings most pertinent to a less developed and primitive peoples. they're all part of the same tradition though.

reply to post by snusfanatic


its like our constitutional law in the united states. one could look at the founders debating and deliberating over the introduction of the bill of rights back in the day and then look at cases like lawrence and roe that use those same bill of rights to legalize sodomy and abortion, things the founders probably would have never imagined. same constitution new age. i see no reason why god wouldn't respond to new people in new ages and stages of development as well. maybe 10,000 years ago when society was fragile, infant mortality rates were sky high and everyone needed to help out on the farm stoning for extramarital sex or sex with animals made perfect sense for the greater good.

reply to post by snusfanatic


i'd also like to conclude by asking why should expect a supreme being, even our monotheistic god to be consistent anyway. if an all powerful god does exist, HE is the law. the only reason we value consistency in human law is that it grants legitimacy based on perceived impartiality. we value impartiality because no man wants another man lording over him or living by a different set of standards. well, any all powerful and omnipotent creature is gonna fall outside that paradigm. its like in job. if god wants to bring down blessings on you on monday and rein down terror on tuesday, and he wants to do it just because he can; who are we to argue?

Did Satan inspire the Old testament?

I say NO - I believe he inspired the New Testament!

The result of violence, death, and sickness stems from trying to live up to Gods standards, thinking you know what Gods will is, and not accepting the free gift.

Faith without works is dead you will hear many say.
John 14:10
Don't you believe that I am in the Father, and that the Father is in me? The words I say to you are not just my own. Rather, it is the Father, living in me, who is doing his work.

Ephesians 2:9
Not of works, lest any man should boast.

SURRENDER
Luke 23:46
And Jesus, crying out with a loud voice, said, "Father, INTO YOUR HANDS I COMMIT MY SPIRIT." Having said this, He breathed His last.

The old testament is designed to make you surrender...basically to give up trying to be good. to not try in of your own power to live up to, and allow the holy spirit of Hashem to take up residence in you.

Isiah 64:6
But we are all as an unclean thing, and all our righteousnesses are as filthy rags; and we all do fade as a leaf; and our iniquities, like the wind, have taken us away.
"You cant, but he can."


Philippians 1:6

Being confident of this very thing, that he which hath begun a good work in you will perform it until the day of Jesus Christ:

Matthew 9:17
Nor do people pour new wine into old wineskins. If they do, the skins burst, the wine runs out, and the skins are ruined. Rather, people pour new wine into fresh skins, and both are saved." Either the old covenant or the new what is your choice to be?. Hashem will allow you to intermingle the old and new until you finally give up.


By trying to add to the cross you take away from the cross. This is the dilema christians, muslims, and jews face. They actually think they can live up to Gods word and laws in of themselves.

It is all of him and none of me.
Romans 5:10
For if, when we were enemies, we were reconciled to God by the death of his Son, much more, being reconciled, we shall be saved by his life.

"Alcoholics Anonymous is about the last remnant of true christianity. However, they to get involved with the "Faith without works is dead" game. You will see more action, more action, more action..self (will) to force what they think Gods will is". You cannot do Gods will..PERIOD...end of discussion. Anything good that comes out of you is all of him and none of you.

Romans 8:28
And we know that all things work together for good to them that love God, to them who are the called according to his purpose.

Either Jesus told the truth that "It is finished" or it is not finished. The illusion that somehow you have something to contribute to the program in of your own will...will kill you.

SURRENDER and TRUST the process.

However....something so easy and simple is very difficult for humans to accept so you continue to fight and try to live up to. COMPETE if you must Many will attack what I have just said. The need to be right is a killer amongst all people including myself.

Knock yourselves out...

Originally posted by ShadoMan
Did Satan inspire the Old testament?

I say NO - I believe he inspired the New Testament!

Sounds like the Jewish perspective...knock yourselves out. But can you free and become friends with your neighbors the Palestinians?

Originally posted by radarloveguy

Satan inspired ALL rebellion against God .


Satan would not destroy people for being evil.

God gives second chances , and a new covenant .


Many western soldiers are christians . God understands this .


god is not evil . patience has its limits . Rebellion will be put down .

Jesus will not be so forgiving second time round .

Though we may converge on doctrine of reincarnation, you are what is missing in a lot of christianity. yeah, JC did have a big stick when necessary but I dont believe he or the Almighty EVER totally writes us off.
Period.
That is why i believe in reincarnation. you can be punished (no, you wont come back as a dog in a puppy farm :lol but its more like a parent. Sometimes you have to hit the wall a few dozen times to figure "hey, thats not the right way to do that!". I think sometimes INDIVIDUALLY, someone is just to "flawed" and has to be completely "recycled /purified". If their are angels washing the "dirt" from such a flawed soul, would they not experience them as "demons in hell"?

The Almighty has infinite time. Considering we are made in Its image, we are of a similiar nature. The almighty will punish when necessary but will console and help also. We are ALL prodical sons (and daughters). We are just trying to find our way home.

As a Gnostic, I have a "different" than most concept of Lucifer as well.

Would TRULY like to converse with you on these points. Keep doin what your doin! Everyone of us affects those around us. Maybe folks like you can throw off the chains of these " churchs to man".

Originally posted by snusfanatic
reply to post by Wobbly Anomaly

 

beingsuch an ancient text the OT was bound to pick up some stuff here and there throughout the centuries from other cultures, represent the laws and teachings most pertinent to a less developed and primitive peoples. they're all part of the same tradition though.

Which bits do you think are not the word of God ?

Originally posted by snusfanatic
reply to post by Wobbly Anomaly

 

i'd also like to conclude by asking why should expect a supreme being, even our monotheistic god to be consistent anyway.

Which kinda suggests good and evil are different sides of the same coin, that god and satan are one and the same.


[edit on 12-11-2009 by Wobbly Anomaly]

Originally posted by felonius


The Almighty has infinite time. Considering we are made in Its image, we are of a similiar nature.

Again, similar to my reply above, if we are made in his image and we are good and evil, then god is both jehovah and lucifer.

Well, I have always said that the only thing in the Old Testament that is reedeemable is the Ten Commandments. Other than that, I would certainly say that the Old Testament is uses God as an excuse to do evil things.

Rape, incest, murder, lies, et cetera, were all supposedly "sanctioned by God" in the Old Testament. What god? Certainly not the God I worship. I often have thought myself that many parts of the Old Testament were inspired by Satan.

Here's the interesting thing, if you study gnosticism (neo-platonism and gnostic christianity) then that's exactly what is said! YHVH is equivalent to lucifer, because YHVH is not the creator of all, he is an emination of the creator of all. The creator is everything already, however it has to create to KNOW itself as the creator.

YHVH is like the demi-god responsible for Earth, and many times it has been said satan is the ruler of the Earth. The Buddhists would call satan/lucifer MAYA, all existence is illusion, in the Daoist tradition it would be said "the thing which can be named is not the real name... name's the mother of the 10,000 things (a chinese expression meaning all the material things around us). In the end, religion is politics with enlightening practices sprinkeled throughout. It's these enlightened practices common to all religions which speak to the truth. The main message is the same. Albert Pike has fueled much speculation since writing the passage in Morals and Dogma:

"The Apocalypse is, to those who receive the nineteenth Degree, the Apotheosis of that Sublime Faith which aspires to God alone, and despises all the pomps and works of Lucifer. LUCIFER, the Light-bearer! Strange and mysterious name to give to the Spirit of Darkness! Lucifer, the Son of the Morning! Is it he who bears the Light, and with its splendors intolerable blinds feeble, sensual, or selfish Souls? Doubt it not! for traditions are full of Divine Revelations and Inspirations: and Inspiration is not of one Age nor of one Creed. Plato and Philo, also, were inspired."

It's a lot like hidden_hands take on it with "suns", YHVH would be the sun of the earth, not the FIRST sun we could refer to as THE creator.

So in a sense, yes YHVH is "the great deceiver" because he styles himself as THE creator of ALL when really he is creator of this world. Really I just take all these books to be allegories, entertaining stories to teach higher truth through. I much prefer the plain literalism of The TAO Te Ching, the best translation of which i've ever found to be Ursula K. Leguin (in case the ones from the 19th and early 20th centuries leave you scratching your head..)

The problems come in with literal interpretations of scriptures is what i've observed. Perhaps delving into the complexities of of ones soul is not for most people, they just want stories to tell them the difference between right and wrong. They are just stories though, based loosley at best on actual events, and always written from the side of the conquerers who are always the good guys while those they conquer are the bad guys. Religion is politics and has always been used to control people, especially before they had cameras up everywhere to watch you 24/7. While people are "policing themselves" through doublethink and herd mentalities pretty well to this day through the fears of their god and societies programming, a lot of people have been educating themselves and exhibititng creative behaviour lately. Hence the cameras.

BTW Look into Venus the "morning star", which traces a pentagram through the sky as seen from earth through it's periond of transit.

morningstar investment... ha! These company names and logo's are so thinly veiled....

Hope that helps

HUTUAPO

[edit on 12-11-2009 by siahchi]

i think some clever men saw a way to gain power and money, and started up the old testament, and made themselves the "go between" for man and a mythical being.

reply to post by Wobbly Anomaly




Ill make it short and simple...Satan's greatest trick was not making man believe in him. Satan's greatest trick was making man believe he is God. Satan is also the bringer of light and knowledge.



[edit on 07/16/2009 by Lichter daraus]

reply to post by siahchi


Wow, thanks for that reply (click, click,click) suddenly much becomes clear (er) although i need to think on that for a while, but yes, certainley turned on some light in my head.

I'll prob type a longer reply later when ive had time to ruminate on that (just off out to a meeting.....that involves beer !)

I was aware of the subjects you mention, i just hadnt put them together like that (it's a bit like m theory bringing together the 'other' string theories.

And yes, i knew about venus, heck, ive used the ratio's of orbits in my music for years, de-tuned to 432hz etc, etc.

thanks again, i'll get back to you. :-)

[edit on 12-11-2009 by Wobbly Anomaly]

Originally posted by Lichter daraus
reply to post by Wobbly Anomaly

 

Ill make it short and simple...Satan's greatest trick was not making man believe in him. Satan's greatest trick was making man believe he is God. Satan is also the bringer of light and knowledge.



[edit on 07/16/2009 by Lichter daraus]

For the time being i'm going to have to refer you to siahchi's reply above because i dont have better words yet.

Originally posted by Wobbly Anomaly

Originally posted by Lichter daraus
reply to post by Wobbly Anomaly

 

Ill make it short and simple...Satan's greatest trick was not making man believe in him. Satan's greatest trick was making man believe he is God. Satan is also the bringer of light and knowledge.



[edit on 07/16/2009 by Lichter daraus]

For the time being i'm going to have to refer you to siahchi's reply above because i dont have better words yet.

Isn't that essentially what he is saying that post? Seems like it to me.