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A possible method for faster than light communication using Pi

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posted on Jan, 24 2011 @ 06:50 PM
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Originally posted by tgidkp

Originally posted by tauristercus
..... pick a starting point say, EXACTLY 10 billion digits AFTER the decimal point.....



oh, is that how deep it goes?! huh. i always wondered how to quantize an infinite value.....turns out you just chop it off without anyone noticing!

the quantum physicists will be pleased! YOU have found the bottom, they can finally end their search!


What ???
How deep does what go ? And who's chopped anything off ?

Talk about a confusing and irrelevant post ... I assume YOU must know what you're talking about because I certainly don't




posted on Jan, 24 2011 @ 07:05 PM
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Originally posted by Quadrivium
Question tauristercus,
If your two civilizations, on each end of the universe, were to start at the 10 billionth decimal place and cause a "gap" in the numbers, at the same time, would it not be possible to create a wormhole effect?
Or because the "gap" would change pi throughout the universe at the same moment it would not be possible for both civilizations to do so at once?
As you can probably tell I am over my head here but I usually read and enjoy these types of threads. We truly are children who are just learning to crawl. There is so much for us to learn.


I'm not actually referring to "removing" any numbers from the decimal portion of pi and leaving blanks in their place.

I'm actually suggesting a technology that lets you "replace" any number (or numbers) at any position after the decimal point that wish.
I used as an example deciding to replace whatever numbers may currently be at say, the 10 billionth decimal place with a range of numbers of your own choosing ... in other words, convert a message into a string of digits and begin replacing the existing digits at the 10 billionth decimal place location with your own.
Doing such a replacement, I presume, would have the effect of replacing the existing pi with your "message" version of pi throughout the entire universe immediately. Consequently, your message would instantaneously cross the entire universe in zero time ... "warp factor unlimited" if you would !

As for 2 civilizations at opposite ends of the universe attempting to change pi at the same time ... I have no idea but I suppose if the technology was available, then I guess it would be possible but unpredictable side effects most likely guaranteed !



posted on Jan, 24 2011 @ 07:48 PM
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reply to post by tauristercus
 


when you look at the edge of a perfect circle, it is perfectly smooth. yes?

if you were to look at a circle under a microscope, it doesnt matter how far you zoom in (even 10 BILLION X), the edge of the circle will always be perfecly smooth. therefore, the circle itself is "bottomless". also known more scientifically as "continuous". pi is the numerical expression of this bottomlessness.

this just so happens to be the same search that physicists have been on for a couple hundred years now. dividing physical particles up smaller and smaller and smaller, hoping one day to find the bottom. guess what they found?

they found that at "the bottom", reality itself is comprised of continuous density probability curve. and the methods of interpreting that continuous-ness into discrete physical particles is known as quantum mechanics.

you said in the OP that there was some position of pi at which it could no longer be detected. this is tantamount to telling the quantum physicists that reality is not founded on a bed of continuity.....that there really is some sort of "particle" at the bottom. einstein would like this idea very much.

it is very likely that the continuous nature of reality is what allows consciousness itself to manifest. therefore, altering pi in the way you described is either already a part of our presently conscious state, or would destroy our conscious state altogether.


i am sorry if that is unclear. the nature of infinities is a twisted subject.



posted on Jan, 24 2011 @ 10:27 PM
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reply to post by maxwellsdemon
 


Pi is 3.1415926535...

The definition of rational is that it is a number that can be written in the form p/q where p and q are integers and q does not equal 0. That means it cannot be written as a fraction since it's irrational. A simple google search can tell you this. What the hell does base 10 have to do with any of this?



posted on Jan, 24 2011 @ 10:47 PM
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Originally posted by tgidkp
reply to post by tauristercus
 


you said in the OP that there was some position of pi at which it could no longer be detected. this is tantamount to telling the quantum physicists that reality is not founded on a bed of continuity.....that there really is some sort of "particle" at the bottom. einstein would like this idea very much.


I have to admit that for the life of me I couldn't remember having made a statement along the lines of
"you said in the OP that there was a position of pi at which it could no longer be detected."
and truthfully was not even sure what this statement was supposed to mean.

So I looked through my OP and this is the closest remark I made that I believe you may be referring to:



Another point to bear in mind is that it's not strictly necessary to use ALL the digits after the decimal point and they could be considered essentially superfluous to virtually any mathematical calculation that requires pi to be used as part of the calculation.
What I'm trying to say here is that if you did a mathematical calculation that used a value of pi with say, 1 million digits after the decimal point; and then did the same calculation but used a shorter value of pi with say,only 500 thousand digits after the decimal point, you'd find that the results of both calculations were for all intents and purposes, identical.


To clarify my meaning, I was trying to say that if you made say, 2 separate calculations involving pi where one calculation used a value of pi with 500 thousand digits after the decimal point and the other calculation used a value of pi with 1 million digits after the decimal point ... that for all intents and purposes and resultant accuracy, that you would essentially get the equivalent answer from both calculations.

Essentially I'm saying that if you go far enough into pi along it's decimal portion, you'll eventually get to a point where using further decimal values serves no purpose in refining your answer.
In other words, the following 2 calculations are "essentially" the same:

5 x pi (using 1 billion decimal place accuracy)
and
5 x pi (using 100 billion decimal place accuracy).

The same applies to drawing a circle using a value of pi accurate to 1 billion decimal places and drawing another circle using a value of pi accurate to 100 billion decimal places.
As far as any kind of conceivable observation of the 2 circles is concerned, they would be virtually identical.

So what I'm trying to say is that if we can accept the possibility that there's say, an upper limit to how many decimal place values within pi are required for the universe to function correctly, then every additional decimal value after that upper limit might possibly be manipulatable by advanced technology to convey messages i.e. be modulated ... and without causing any negative effects on the universes use of pi.



posted on Jan, 24 2011 @ 10:56 PM
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If you had a machine that could manipulate physical constants, faster than light communication would be a cinch. And maybe pi needs to be more and more accurate for smaller particles.



posted on Jan, 24 2011 @ 10:58 PM
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reply to post by tauristercus
 


I have two questions.

If somehow this is possible and you were able to manipulate the value ever so slightly, what would your message say?

How do you know this hasn't already been done at the other edge of the Universe, have you searched for a message?



posted on Jan, 24 2011 @ 11:33 PM
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Originally posted by tauristercus
...they would be virtually identical....


EXACTLY!

is reality virtually real?
or
is reality actually real?


how deep down does it go?

if you honestly think that it is possible to alter pi at ANY point in its sequence, you have effectively quantized the entire universe into a virtual state. i am just going to go ahead and say that, insofar as we have come to define reality, we will NEVER be able to touch this constant.



posted on Jan, 25 2011 @ 12:17 AM
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Originally posted by tgidkp

Originally posted by tauristercus
..... pick a starting point say, EXACTLY 10 billion digits AFTER the decimal point.....



oh, is that how deep it goes?! huh. i always wondered how to quantize an infinite value.....turns out you just chop it off without anyone noticing!

the quantum physicists will be pleased! YOU have found the bottom, they can finally end their search!


Not all infinities are created equal. And that is also a mathematical fact.

Personally, I love people that think "sideways". Not always necessarily for the particular thought or idea that is initially expressed as a result of that "sideways" thought, but rather for all of the new potential thoughts that may be launched from many other minds as a result of being exposed to a new and interesting way of looking at something.

Nice job, OP. I don't think this particular dog will hunt, but the concept of encoding information in the fabric of the universe is a very cool concept.

Today's magic is tomorrow's iPod so to speak....



posted on Jan, 25 2011 @ 12:37 AM
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OP, it doesn't make any sense because the FTL communication you are attempting to create inherently relies that FTL communication already exists.

... and if that FTL communication didn't already exist, then the effect to create the FTL communication would merely propagate at the speed of light.



posted on Jan, 25 2011 @ 12:59 AM
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I always thought about aliens being telekinetic, if this is possible and we may become telekinetic with practice, then wouldnt this void all the technology ?

If we can talk to one another instantaneously already then nature has given us the tools necessary with out all of the tech.

Just something abstract and far fetched to think about.



posted on Jan, 25 2011 @ 01:14 AM
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The fundamental flaw in your proposal is that Pi is not a "constant" - it's a ratio. It's not a variable given numerical value in some equation - it's the result of an equation.

But even if you had the ability to change some value in nature, and having that change ripple through out the universe instantly, then I highly doubt instantaneous communications across the universe would be any longer an issue.
edit on 25-1-2011 by harrytuttle because: (no reason given)



posted on Jan, 25 2011 @ 08:48 AM
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Originally posted by RestingInPieces
OP, it doesn't make any sense because the FTL communication you are attempting to create inherently relies that FTL communication already exists.

... and if that FTL communication didn't already exist, then the effect to create the FTL communication would merely propagate at the speed of light.


But FTL communication does exist - see quantum entanglement....

We just don't know how to use it.

Yet....



posted on Jan, 25 2011 @ 09:46 AM
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reply to post by 547000
 

Your basic comment;

Pi is 3.1415926535... Sorta, but you didn't read the references I gave you

Your Quote
"The definition of rational is that it is a number that can be written in the for
m p/q where p and q are integers and q does not equal 0. That means it cannot be written as a fraction since it's irrational. A simple google search can tell you this. What the hell does base 10 have to do with any of this? "

My answer:

You used base 10 eg; as a number between 0 & 9, to determine that Pi = 3.1415926535..etc. but you use a computer that uses binary (0 or 1) to commmunicate, you read time as base 60 (minutes). therefore 22/7 is more accurate algebraically if used as a constant, why use billions of base10 numbers that still can't be determined instead of a fraction because using base 10 is an infinate number than won't be contained.

Pi is not a fractal, it describes a perfect circle or sphere.

I notice that you previously used algebra (constants of fractions) of p, q, m, 0 etc.but define Pi as a base 10 numercial value, but using algebra to contain 10base constants. Use binary, but 16base is far quicker.

Happy Hunting

HADES



posted on Jan, 25 2011 @ 10:09 AM
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reply to post by tauristercus
 

Please read and understand, seems like my theories & explanations have now been confirmed.

abovetopsecret.com...

Let's put our heads together and manipulate taychyon time, communications, power transmission, stargates, matter/antimatter.

I have mentioned previously that when I publish theory the facts come in a day later,

Happy Hunting

HADES



posted on Jan, 25 2011 @ 10:09 AM
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reply to post by maxwellsdemon
 


i recently finished reading "a new kind of scinece" by stephen wolfram. in this book he takes pi as a binary signal and computes one of his fameous cellular automata plots. the result was that none of the "higher level structures" which can be seen in typical cellular automata appeared in his plot of pi.

this effectively proves that it does not matter what counting base you use: the essential nature of pi is that it is "bottomless" (as described in one of my earlier posts). if you extract this bottomlessness out of the representation (by using a rational expression 22/7), it no longer serves its essential purpose, which is to describe the infinite curvature of a perfect circle.

a rational expression may be a useful thing to use in order to perform calculations which do not require a high level of accuracy. but for applications which require the highest level of accuracy, the manifestation of reality for example, pi can ONLY EVER be represented by the relationship of d to c of a circle. regardless of the counting base.



posted on Jan, 25 2011 @ 10:24 AM
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reply to post by tgidkp
 

Very Nice,

Good to see people study like myself;

You have found a perfect fractal application of Pi @ N dimensions in curvature of space applications, Now how can we use this to navigate spacetime within a spiral? Just asking so I can put it together. What we can do in a day takes years for the PHD's.

"If", it's a recursive fractal (speculation) possibly we can use tachyon manipulation to "time travel".

Your thoughts please, and any facts are very helpful so I can research and provide/assimlilate more data.

Appreciated

HADES



posted on Jan, 25 2011 @ 10:32 AM
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reply to post by maxwellsdemon
 


The base you use for pi is irrelevant.

Here
edit on 25-1-2011 by 547000 because: (no reason given)



posted on Jan, 25 2011 @ 10:56 AM
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reply to post by 547000
 


Yes, go research, come back and comment from all the reseach links I have provided, and let's debate. Pi can be used in comunication I won't dispute that. But at least please read the physics & math 1st.

So if you want to refute/debate me, please provide logical scientfic analysis, with any links or extracts for all of us to read analyse instead of a one liner comment. Search algebra, fractals, spirals, spheres, and specifically the "N" value.

The OP wants knowledge like all of us, not rhetoric. The least you can do is shoot me down with facts, and provide them withuot Wikipedia, I suggest a basic study in electromagnetic Fields & Waves (Magdy Iskander) or some form of understanding in variable based math instead of counting from 0-9 (10 base).

The previous commentator correctly stated that binary can be used. But you made no mention of that either. So let's make it simple for you and use a hydrogen atom and spin ratio of the orbiting particle as a form of binary communication. When you can manipulate that get back to me with logic, science references or extracts etc.

But remember that that using binary in a hydrogen based ratio spin communication requires a "3rd vlaue" which "changes the orbital distance, so if we manipulate Pi by only using the radius varialbles +/- then basically we can "communicate accross the universe" in a "time" based format.

But apply that to tachyons and calculating the Pi radius of the orbiting particle (which is unique) you can communicate instantaneously, or travel.

Yes it's StarTrek, but that's also Project Stargate.

please reseach & understand, the come back with facts.

Happy Hunting

HADES



posted on Jan, 25 2011 @ 11:05 AM
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reply to post by 547000
 


Hope this helps you, the least you can do is read then refute with facts please??

[PDF] Reduction of fractal structures to regular oneFile Format: PDF/Adobe Acrobat - Quick View
by I Miklashevich - Related articles
Thus an n is the volume of the cube in n-dimensional space. From (1.3), .... Reduction fractal structures. 5. 1.3 Application general formalism to fracture ... ln Pi(ε) ln ε . These indices are characterize by the distribution and the ... already established that the Cartan torsion (the first tensor of curvature of ...
necsi.org/events/iccs6/papers/7360a58465175ea8e6c6b0df728a.pdf

[PDF] Scale Relativity and Fractal Space-Time: Applications to Quantum ...File Format: PDF/Adobe Acrobat - Quick View
by L NOTTALE - Cited by 140 - Related articles
manifestation of the curvature of space-time. .... that the 'natural' variable for resolution is ln ε, and that the expected new differ- ... ical meaning to the fractal dimension: in scale relativity, it becomes the component ...... separated, even though they are separated in the Hamiltonian, H = ΣiH(xi,pi). ...
luth2.obspm.fr/~luthier/nottale/arRevFST.pdf

7th International Conference on Geometry and Applicationsby B Alexandrov - 2006
The author gives a short guide how to use Fractal ... The first function is called a shape curvature and the second one a shape torsion. We investigate spirals in three-dimensional Euclidean space and spherical spirals ... of the point set P such that (Pi, Bi, Si) is a ti−divisible subdesign of D for i = 1,. .. ,m ...
www.springerlink.com/index/qj1446356h64u180.pdf - Similar

Fractal Cosmology | TDG - Science, Magick, Myth and History15 Oct 2007 ... Imagining this shape you could focus or zoom inside more and more ... is how a fractal would look like in 3 dimensions as an electric field (made of charge). ..... The FRACTAL FRIDGE: Example of Using Fractality to Concentrate Life ..... Is the often described CURVATURE OF SPACE TIME which causes ...
www.dailygrail.com/blogs/dan-winter/2007/10/Fractal-Cosmology - Cached

[PDF] Scale Relativity and Fractal Space-Time: Applications to Quantum ...File Format: PDF/Adobe Acrobat - Quick View
by L NOTTALE - Cited by 140 - Related articles
manifestation of the curvature of space-time. .... that the 'natural' variable for resolution is ln ε, and that the expected ... ical meaning to the fractal dimension: in scale relativity, ..... to quantum mechanics using our scale- covariance [1,11-15]. .... as the sum of the one-body Hamiltonians, H = ΣiH(xi, pi). ...
luth2.obspm.fr/~luthier/nottale/arRevFST.pdf




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