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A possible method for faster than light communication using Pi

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posted on Nov, 12 2009 @ 02:04 AM
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Originally posted by Mr Mask
Just read your post on DNA.

Very fun read and way better thought pattern then the one here (IMHO).

Making you what? A better theoretical-biologist then radical-mathematician?

Well, right or wrong on any of your posts, I will say "good job" and salute you.

But I still think your FTL-PI-centered theory is a bad investment. Then agian, what the hell do I know?

Eh...win some, lose some.




hahaha ... thanks for that


I have to admit to being nobody's idea of a well informed biologist or mathematician ... I simply have these occasional loony ideas and like to throw them out for general consumption.
From my point of view, I'd rather read these sort of "theoretical" and "what-if" threads than get inundated by thread after thread proclaiming yet another doomsday catastrophe is about to befall us or read threads that are so patently ridiculous and absolutely lacking in any validity whatsoever that it's almost painful trying to comprehend what goes through some peoples minds when they come up with a thread idea.




posted on Nov, 12 2009 @ 02:14 AM
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reply to post by SevenThunders
 




If you were able to alter space time I'm afraid it would take time to propagate to the other side of the universe. No doubt it would travel no faster than the speed of light, though there is some controversy about this.


Now thats a very interesting point ... would the ability to alter a fundamental constant to another value take some measurable time to permeate throughout the universe ? Would it have a speed limitation and would this be below, at or above light speed ? If it did have a speed limitation, wouldn't this imply that a fundamental constant change thats moving through space/the universe implies that it's some form of unknown energy transfer ?

But personally, I believe that a universal constant just simply "exists" throughout the fabric of the universe or space/time ... in other words, alter a fundamental constant and the change appears immediately throughout the entire universe ... how ? ... no idea



posted on Nov, 12 2009 @ 02:53 AM
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reply to post by tauristercus
 





But personally, I believe that a universal constant just simply "exists" throughout the fabric of the universe or space/time ... in other words, alter a fundamental constant and the change appears immediately throughout the entire universe ... how ? ... no idea


One possibility would be that all the particles in the universe are actually part of 1 particle. The reason it might be perceived particles are separate and fill a universe may be hidden in space time warpage. It would be like an apple being an apple yet all of its cells are perceived to be divided billions of light years around the universe being that it is only a perception or a illusion and it is still actually a solid apple.

so, in my solid universal particle theory, talking across the universe would be as fast and as easy as talking to yourself. If somebody found out how to get rid of the illusion of space time warp effect.



posted on Nov, 12 2009 @ 03:18 AM
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reply to post by tauristercus
 


Hi taurisercus

You seem to have a child-like fascination with the world which I'm sure many on here find refreshing
(I don't mean your intellect is child-like, just your fascination!) Unfortunately for most of us the hum-drum of life gets rid of that.

Current physics forbids information to exceed C and unfortunately changing PI by slightly warping the whole universe would be classed as information so subject to the same rules. But step outside our universe and it may be possible to do this. If we could do this then instead of encoding letters it makes sense to modulate a zero between 0 and 1 to send a message serially to avoid the requirement to change the value too much.

This then leaves the problem of how the receiver can tell that PI has changed accurately enough to receive the message.

Although entanglement links has been timed to be greater than 50C there is no known way to pass real information via this link. I can't view the posted video unfortunately to see what is said there.



posted on Nov, 12 2009 @ 03:31 AM
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Originally posted by chiron613
Unfortunately, the value of pi can change. In a flat space (so-called "Euclidean" space), pi has a well-defined value that is a constant. However, in a curved (non-Euclidean) space, this value changes.

According to physics, space does curve, which means that pi doesn't have a constant value.


Excellent point, but even though circles in non-Euclidean space have a perimeter-to-diameter ratio that is different from π, small non-Euclidean circles do approach π. Likewise with a Riemann sphere we see a value less-than, but up to a maximum of π. So π is an extremely important boundary condition. I think it's also worth noting that the cosmological constant has recently been re-invoked for the purpose of bringing physical theory in line with observation and in it we see π as a fundamental constant of the universe.

So anything that would cause stretching outside normal parameters would strike me as worrisome. Then again I'm sure the universe would send us a time-traveling bird to drop a baguette on the unsuspecting scientists trying to invoke such an experiment.
So I doubt we'll have anything to worry about.



posted on Nov, 12 2009 @ 04:34 AM
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Originally posted by LightFantastic
reply to post by tauristercus
 


Hi taurisercus

You seem to have a child-like fascination with the world which I'm sure many on here find refreshing
(I don't mean your intellect is child-like, just your fascination!) Unfortunately for most of us the hum-drum of life gets rid of that.


I'll accept that in the spirit it was given ... as a compliment.
Yes, I'm the 1st to admit that I've always found a fascination with the universe in which we find ourselves a part of and have always believed that there must be untold mysteries and discoveries for us as a species, waiting to be explored.




Current physics forbids information to exceed C and unfortunately changing PI by slightly warping the whole universe would be classed as information so subject to the same rules. But step outside our universe and it may be possible to do this. If we could do this then instead of encoding letters it makes sense to modulate a zero between 0 and 1 to send a message serially to avoid the requirement to change the value too much.


Don't get me wrong here ... I didn't create this thread for the purpose of expounding an earth (universe ?) shaking theory or to claim deep intellectual and/or scientific insight ... or even a personal "Eureka moment". I merely had what I considered an interesting "insight" that irrespective of it's validity (or lunacy), I thought that perhaps some ATS'ers would appreciate ripping into it (in a constructive manner, of course !) and giving their grey cells something different to ponder beside the usual fare of doom and gloom catastrophes that seems to be so prevalent on this forum.



posted on Nov, 12 2009 @ 07:46 AM
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Originally posted by tauristercus
I'll accept that in the spirit it was given ... as a compliment.
Yes, I'm the 1st to admit that I've always found a fascination with the universe in which we find ourselves a part of and have always believed that there must be untold mysteries and discoveries for us as a species, waiting to be explored.


Haha yes it was a compliment. I look forward to the next in your series.

I had the same intense fascination when I was younger and like you tried to learn everything I can about everything. Ah to be young and have time to think.

Your idea for information transmission was very Sagan-esque. It has got me thinking of alternate ideas along the same lines that may be easier to achieve.

Keep up the good work!



posted on Jan, 23 2011 @ 05:36 AM
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Just imagine if humans ever do manage to acquire the ability to manipulate the fundamental constants of the universe

If it could be precisely controlled and applied, that would just have to be THE ultimate weapon of mass destruction !
For example, changing the value of pi just within a stars interior would have to guarantee the star would go nova.
And what about changing the value of pi within a specific target galaxy (the enemy) ? Would all life within that galaxy be instantly wiped out ?

Wow ... better pray humans (or any aliens) get their hands (or tentacles) on that kind of technology !!



posted on Jan, 23 2011 @ 05:45 AM
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You sir, certainly believe in thinking outside the box


The possibility of manipulating pi to allow faster than light communication is a brilliant one and never would have occurred to me. Now we just have to wait for technology/science to make your scifi idea a reality !

Sometime in the distant future I'm certain we'll acquire that ability.

S & F for sure.



posted on Jan, 23 2011 @ 06:58 AM
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Simple answer you have forgotton from preschool Pi = 22/7, why bother with millions of digits when the answer is in your face, I told you about quantum entanglement in another post and you haven't read the physics yet.

It is easier to calculate an ABSOLUTE value of 22/7 than Pi as a decimal which is a never ending number.

Yes it can be used as communication when Pi is determined as the spin ratio of a travelling photon @ C, but you need to add Pi for FTL. it is possible.

You'll catch up soon.

Google, Vedic Math, FTL, tachyons etc, this has been on ATS for years.

Happy Hunting

HADES



posted on Jan, 23 2011 @ 05:35 PM
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Originally posted by maxwellsdemon
Simple answer you have forgotton from preschool Pi = 22/7, why bother with millions of digits when the answer is in your face, I told you about quantum entanglement in another post and you haven't read the physics yet.

It is easier to calculate an ABSOLUTE value of 22/7 than Pi as a decimal which is a never ending number.

Sorry but you've completely misunderstood why I chose to use pi with it's infinite number of decimal places.

The primary reason for embedding the communication millions of decimals places away was to try to reduce to zero any change in the "physical world" ratio of the diameter of a circle to it's circumference.

As an example, if we inserted our message, represented by say the sequence of numbers 10101010 into pi starting at decimal position 3, we'd obviously be changing pi from 3.1415926 to 3.1.410101010.
Such an early change would be disastrous to any mathematical calculation using pi and even more disastrous to every circle ... in fact it would probably be impossible to construct or draw a near to perfect circle using a pi value of 3.1410101010. Such an early change would most likely screw up the entire universe as the universe is full of circles !

However, we can hopefully sidestep or minimize to almost zero any effects caused by changing pi if we restrict ourselves to making changes millions of decimal places away from the start of pi. Doing this should have virtually no effect on any mathematical calculation using pi and also circles will still be almost indistinguishable from circles drawn with an unaltered pi.



posted on Jan, 23 2011 @ 06:11 PM
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If it was possible to alter pi, and I don't think it is, doing so might have catastrophic implications. We simply do not know what relies on it.

Entanglement is a much, much better option.



posted on Jan, 23 2011 @ 06:31 PM
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Originally posted by Sothh
If it was possible to alter pi, and I don't think it is, doing so might have catastrophic implications. We simply do not know what relies on it.

Entanglement is a much, much better option.


Pi, along with many other constants, appears to be fundamental to the way our universe works ... and for the foreseeable future, we will not be able to manipulate any of them.

However, assuming that prior to the big bang (or during it) the fundamental constants may not have existed, this implies that they had to have been created by nature at some stage, This further implies that changing the fundamental constants must be theoretically possible as nature has already done that by going from no fundamental constants to the fundamental constants we have now. Whats to say that sometime in the future that nature may just alter them yet again.

And if nature can do it, you can bet your bottom dollar that some time in the future we'll be able to duplicate what nature does naturally and alter pi and other constants deliberately.



posted on Jan, 23 2011 @ 09:39 PM
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Originally posted by tauristercus
..... pick a starting point say, EXACTLY 10 billion digits AFTER the decimal point.....



oh, is that how deep it goes?! huh. i always wondered how to quantize an infinite value.....turns out you just chop it off without anyone noticing!

the quantum physicists will be pleased! YOU have found the bottom, they can finally end their search!



posted on Jan, 23 2011 @ 09:50 PM
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I can't imagine any hypothetical technology, that could fundamentally alter the internal logic of the universe, that would not already imply the ability to communicate everywhere instantaneously.

(Actually you could remove the part after the second comma and the statement would still apply, but I'm trying to be generous here.)

It just seems if we're at this point, actually altering the constants would be unnecessary.


edit on 23-1-2011 by NewlyAwakened because: (no reason given)



posted on Jan, 23 2011 @ 10:35 PM
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reply to post by maxwellsdemon
 


22/7 is NOT pi. It is an approximation to pi. Just like 3.14 is not pi. Pi is irrational, so it goes on forever without a fixed sequential pattern and thus cannot be written as a fraction.



posted on Jan, 23 2011 @ 10:43 PM
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I wonder what it would be like to always examine down to the the very last detail all the operations of what takes place in my body when I inhale and exhale or when my heart beats.

That would be horrible to have all those clinical scientific concepts bouncing around in my brain 24-7 after each breath.
edit on 23-1-2011 by superluminal11 because: (no reason given)



posted on Jan, 23 2011 @ 11:20 PM
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Question tauristercus,
If your two civilizations, on each end of the universe, were to start at the 10 billionth decimal place and cause a "gap" in the numbers, at the same time, would it not be possible to create a wormhole effect?
Or because the "gap" would change pi throughout the universe at the same moment it would not be possible for both civilizations to do so at once?
As you can probably tell I am over my head here but I usually read and enjoy these types of threads. We truly are children who are just learning to crawl. There is so much for us to learn.



posted on Jan, 24 2011 @ 11:57 AM
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reply to post by 547000
 

yes it does, use a calculator in a base 10 format, divide 22 by 7 and we have a base ten value for Pi.

Your quote;

"22/7 is NOT pi. It is an approximation to pi. Just like 3.14 is not pi. Pi is irrational, so it goes on forever without a fixed sequential pattern and thus cannot be written as a fraction"

But using a fraction (algebra in "N" forms")
It is a recursive number 3.1428571428571428571428571428571

Search ResultsPi - Wikipedia, the free encyclopediaπ (sometimes written pi) is a mathematical constant whose value is the ratio of any circle's circumference to its diameter in the Euclidean plane; ...

Feynman point - Proof that π is irrational - Pi (disambiguation) - Euclidean geometry
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pi - Cached - Similar

Pi Day - Wikipedia, the free encyclopediaHowever, 22/7 is actually a closer approximation of π than 3.14 is. ... The distance travelled through the entire orbit around the sun, divided by the ...

Eg;
Pi Day - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia However, 22/7 is actually a closer approximation of π than 3.14 etc.is. ... The distance travelled through the entire orbit around the sun, divided by the ...

Observation - Celebration - History - Pi pies
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pi_Day - Cached - Similar

I prefer simple math.

Point proven 22/7 is better than base 10 for accuracy

Happy Hunting

HADES



posted on Jan, 24 2011 @ 05:32 PM
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edit on 24-1-2011 by NewlyAwakened because: Either I'm confused or you are. Giving the benefit of the doubt.



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