The REAL Swine Flu Conspiracy, page 4

reply to post by ecoparity

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This is the same argument media is usingn; there is never ever any kind of "large" conspiracy just because there would be too many people knowing about it..and they would eventually talk to media.

Only..if media is own by the accused..to whoom would they speak to? If x dies who is going to inform the people?
And there are many subtile ways of making people do what you need them to do without they really knowing about the whole picture.
About 911 they say its impossible because of that..still we have no good answer to so many questions. In Swedish media both the 911 truthmovement and people not wanting the vaccine are being ridiculised all day long. Its part of the game and makes me even more convinced there are secret powers and they have a plan, an agenda of some kind.

[edit on 12-11-2009 by gusan]

Originally posted by ecoparity
No one your father's age has died from swine flu. It only seems to kill the young and healthy.

For me it's really simple. For all the vaccine is a bioweapon stuff to be true the entire mico biology and research community would be in on it.

If that's the case, we're screwed anyway. You may as well go get your shot and get it over with.

I know the popular conspiracy is BS. I can feel it in my bones, if there's a real conspiracy it's going to be the one they can keep quiet. If they manage to "get" the patriot / conspiracy types at the same time then all the better for them.

They are not going to risk something that would be so easy to discover right now. There are far too many people watching. The political situation alone determines what they can and can't get away with.

[edit on 11-11-2009 by ecoparity]

Actuallly it's possible if you control the MSM and other avenues of getting information out. Lets say that a bunch of microbiologists where able to see this as anything but a genetically modified germ. What do they do? They go to their bosses and their bosses being bosses think they are wrong. They show them the information and still think they are wrong (this is because he can't believe or don't want to believe). Then they decided to go to the mediae, but the media has to allow them to come onto their shows (how many MSM have allowed no vaccine doctors on the show without trying to break them down). And then there's your job, do you really want to risk or your boss want to risk your job over something that you proved but can't prove. And what that means is yea it was genetically manufactured, but if somebody is big enough and strong enough to set lose a genetically modified organism to get people sick and then the vaccine being the helper, do you really want to take them on (especially if you have other researchers and disinfo people saying your crazy and you don't know what your talking about).

Then the only places that you can get your information out on his websites like this and others and that just helps the Powers that be in their quest to make your irrelevant. Another thing is that alot of microbiologists and scientists have been dying since the Anthrax attacks. I'll post a few links.

[url=http://www.stevequayle.com/News.alert/03_Disease/030805.mysterious.deaths.html]

citizenwells.wordpress.com...

Originally posted by ecoparity

In this case it isn't possible. Logistically it requires such a huge amount of people to be complicit it cannot function.

My alternate theory on the other hand, requires very few people. Less than a dozen high level people could pull off the entire thing without most of the main players even knowing.

[edit on 12-11-2009 by ecoparity]

you may very well be right. Yours is a logical assessment. However, as this is a conspiracy website, let's not forget the 100 biologists, microbiologists and scientists found dead over the last couple of years.

valis.gnn.tv...

Scare the scientists into doing what you want them to (that's if they can't be bribed).

reply to post by ecoparity

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heres a conspiracy a bio level 4 highly deadly virus that doesnt spread easily is ACCIDENTLY sent to vaccine makers to produce seasonal vaccine and the company who did it admitted the mistake would have made a fortune out of further sales of vaccine BUT THEY DIDNT DO IT ON PURPOSE
that is the real conspiracy
72 kilos of live bird flu virus shipped to vaccine makers BY MISTAKE
the virus was injected into ferrets by cheq techs to test its saftey
THE CONSPIACY WAS IF THEY HADDENT WE WOULD HAVE A BIRD FLU PANDEMIC PROFITING THE COMPANY WHO SENT OUT 72 KILOS OF LIVE BIO LEVEL 4 BIRD FLU WITH 75% MORTALITY RATE

The real conspiracy is how come the WHO changed the definition of a pandemic from a deadly novel virus that is highly infectious to
A NOVEL INFECTION THAT IS INFECTIOUS BUT NOT DEADLY

Originally posted by ecoparity
None of the US vaccines have squalene in them at this time. Check the product inserts for them yourself.

They can add them later if needed to make enough but it's hardly a conspiracy if the first 30 million doses all didn't have it.

The media is NOT pushing this, they didn't report on Ukraine until people started calling them directly and even then it took a few days. Most of the real news about the pandemic hasn't been reported in mainstream news except here and there.

Everyone keeps skipping the one big problem with the theory - how are they keeping all those scientists quiet?

If there was anything "bad" in the vaccines (other than mercury and squalene which isn't even there yet) all the state and federal agencies who perform random testing would be saying so. There's no way each and every one of them is paid off.

Let's go along and say they are - do you know how many grad students are sequencing samples for research purposes? Thousands. We can't even get one of them to speak up? The same thing goes for the virus, hell I know 3 micro biologists folding the sequences at home - can't we even get one of these people to speak up?

There's one vaccine currently made with squalene which just got approval to be sold in the US and it isn't on the shelf yet. In Europe the only one currently containing squalene is only given to elderly patients and has been around for years.

I'm not saying squalene is good, I won't go near it ever again for any reason but not only has it not been used, the public has spoken out so strongly against it I doubt it will be any time soon.

Snip

Well I'm sorry to say this my friend, but you don't know what you are saying now which is a shame and makes me questioning your motives behind this post.

You have been around here since all this started - yet some information of your post could be seen as disinformation since you unfortunately have uncorrect information!

First please! let us not only be Americacentric here!

The US has around 350 million people and Europe has almost 750 million people. So more people will be injected here.

While it's fine & dandy that you in the U.S can take a vaccine without Squalene and Thiomersal, however! that is not the case with most of us unfortunately! Therefore I ask you to look at this from a more world perspective and not only from an American perspective.

I know you are American and therefore are interested in this from an American perspective, but this analysis you are doing is giving you wrong results if you look at this from only, a pure American perspective!

1. You said:

In Europe the only one currently containing squalene is only given to elderly patients and has been around for years

That is not entirely correct my friend! there are more vaccine with the squalene adjuvant and I don't know where you got the info: ONLY GIVEN TO ELDERLY PATIENTS?

Novartis H1N1 flu shot also contain the squalene adjuvant and is delivered with the : MF59.

And GSK's Pandremix with the adjuvant AS03 will be the ONLY shot available for most people here in many countries of Europe.

Many parts of Europe is RIGHT NOW injecting GSK's Pandremix with the awful squalene adjuvant AS03 or Novartis flu shot with the squalene adjuvant MF59 into its citizens.

You said: "and has been around for years"

Well! in a lot smaller doses per seasonal flu shot, yes! - but not in the high dose ppm of Squalene that's going into this shot against the H1N1 - the Swine flu shot!

The reason for this is to save on the added antigen in each shot so there will be enough for everyone! - or at least, this is what they say - the official explaination on why so high dose of the squalene adjuvant AS03 will be used in each shot!

So instead of letting the vaccine antigen doing its job the natural way in the vaccine, they are now injecting us with an artificial booster to make the job and to save them money, or is there even a more sinister motive behind the high dose of squalene added?

Doesn't this H1N1 shot contain ten times more squalene than the "Gulf War Syndrome" Anthrax shot?

Today they also gave the "GO AHEAD" to start injecting children from 6 months to 3 years with Pandremix. And people are lining up everywhere for their shot!

In Scandinavia at least 5 people have died just a couple of days after being injected, and this is even written about in the MSM but is explained that this people were "oversensitive" to the vaccine. While that might be true? a lot of other people have had other reactions that are not even described by GSK and they are saying nothing! - a total information black-out from them.

The only thing official they have said was that they need to look into this! - The Media and the Government have a written agreement with GSK and are forbidden to talk about it until GSK gives their explainations.

Most of us here have read the written medical studies and scientific papers regarding the "Squalene" and understand that there a severe risk to inject Squalene which can lead to autoimmune disorders and autoimmune diseases further down the road - The Scandinavian studies made of the Gulf syndrome is also around here on ATS.

I just want you to know that the vaccination has already begun here with GSK's Pandremix! - and they are injecting everyone with it - pregnants, small children, risk groups, old people - as I said! everyone!

There are also coming in some scattered reports online about several miscarriages as well! I sadly don't have any evidence to to show you yet, and I don't know if the information from women on the online forum is true and if it's related to their recent vaccine injections, but the information is worrying nevertheless - and if you look at the ingredient of Pandremix, what do we find:

Polysorbate 80 (commercially also known as Tween 80) which is proved to work as a contraceptive and It has scientific papers and documentation that shows that it works as a contraceptive and could make people sterile:

Development of a male contraceptive vaccine - a perspective

PDF Oxfordjournals

humupd.oxfordjournals.org...

“Gardasil contains Polysorbate 80, which is linked to infertility in mice,” noted Dee Nicholson, National Communications Director for Freedom in Canadian Health Care. [Nov 2007] Sleight of Handling: More Merck Magic Tricks With HPV Vaccine By Christopher C. Barr

www.whale.to...

Polysorbate 80 Causes Infertility - An Emulsifier That Can Damage Your Reproductive Health

Read more: infertility.suite101.com...

So I think it's WAAAY to soon to actually say anything positive about this vaccine without knowing the more long term effects.

Well we are all here looking for answers! and therefore I beg you to look at this with another "World or European perspective - and not only from your American perspective, if you are genuinely interested to help that is?

The MSM is crazy as usual! they are only making people more confused every day! from todays newspaper:

The seventh death in swine flu - while the MPA reports new deaths after vaccination. Swine flu has claimed its seventh casualties.

Meanwhile, the MPA has received three reports of people who died within five days after taking the vaccine.

They, however, sees no causal connection between the deaths and the vaccine.

www.aftonbladet.se...

So all this kind of typical information and disinformation and similar, is what most people have to deal with on daily basis with this flu, no wonder why we are so confused and worried about both the flu and the vaccine.

We all just want the truth and honest answers God damn it!


[edit on 12-11-2009 by Chevalerous]

I'm doing some research, I'm a little skeptical that the american vaccines are safe.

www.breakdownofamerica.com... ncy-do-not-mix-organic-health/

reply to post by hoghead cheese

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Only a certain number of the deaths were actually "suspicious" and in each and every one of those cases the scientist in question is known to have been approached by Iran and N Korea to sell information or perform work.

That still leaves us with around 100 thousand people who would be in the chain of evidence on this.

reply to post by XPLodER

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Every time someone posts this exact same line of BS I know for a fact they haven't looked into the incident for themselves but are relying on blogs and other theorists to inform them.

I've contacted people in the EU government who were involved, I've read the actual reports and once again, you can find them right here on ATS if you try.

The incident involved a test compound, not a vaccine and not one meant for people. It was not produced using the same facility and verification processes that vaccines use. It was sent to four labs for testing, not 18 and I've been told by three virologists in three countries that the compound involved could not infect people, only ferrets.

It's still bad news and an unfortunate incident but hardly proof of a global conspiracy.

True conspiracies do not require exaggeration or lies.

reply to post by Chevalerous

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How many flu vaccines in Europe had squalene in them prior to the pandemic?

One, the vaccine I mentioned.

I can't do much for the EU, the people of it seem to love being subjects of the EU Royal families or something. What sucks is every freedom people in Europe hand off ends up on the table for elimination in the US as well.

reply to post by hoghead cheese

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There are millions of forums, hundreds of large ones dealing with pandemics, survival and so on.

Anyone can get a free blog on any number of websites.

Twitter, Digg, Reddit, Facebook, Linkedin - there has to be a million ways to spread a message online.

If that fails there is always fax machines and handing out flyers in front of colleges, hospitals, sports events -

People are deluding themselves if they think a conspiracy involving killer vaccines and / or bio weapon flu can be pulled off without being caught.

I know people use that reason for a lot of conspiracies where it isn't necessarily true. In this case, it is. There are hundreds of thousands of people who study vaccines and viruses, from home genetic hobbyists to students to researchers.

Right now there are science teams from all over the World in Ukraine taking samples to study.

The WHO does not have a monopoly on the study of viruses and analysis of the genetics. It just isn't true.

I know how you're thinking because I made the same mistakes. I started to see things that didn't add up and started digging for myself, if you do the same I don't think you'll follow the crowd on this one.

reply to post by ecoparity

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It bothers me a little to see such Ignorance towards a lethal plan, planned many years in advance down to the finest detail and because it does not seem Likely to you, that’s it…its not… This is not a Nancy Drew Mystery you trying to solve.

I’m not saying we have all the answers, for all we know we missing some big parts to the story, but lets have a look at some things I can think of that you not focusing on and have not taken into account.

We have Microbiologists dying by the dozens, many known to be involved in Government projects and research…I guess that’s normal.

Baxter Pharmaceuticals gets caught red handed having mixed Avian bird flu with Influenza vaccine. ..and they admit it was a mistake…. Normal I guess…..

For the first time in history they declare a pandemic level 6 medical emergency…. Mmm I guess I can’t say normal if it’s the first time?

At the highest levels of government they manage to waiver FDA protocol for making and passing the vaccines. On top of that waiver all liability of recourse for injuries or damage claims that can arise from these decisions….Not normal.

A lot of new laws have been passed to enforce, detain, isolate and deal with the state of emergency pandemic level 6. A little over the top for a few 100 deaths earlier this year!

CDC admit that the “H1N1 is a make up of 3 different viruses. Oh that’s normal too, but its never happened in the history of “lives’…EVER!

Sure Someone is making money, hey you can kill two birds with one stone?

Right now they most likely have already designed the “next” strain that’ll be worst than the one we have now, To be on the safe side they most likely have the vaccine for that too, and who knows maybe a 3rd level to come out in a few years time.

Maybe the vaccine they giving is fine, not designed that well, might make some sick like it did before, but it’ll do for the current strain.

As to all those companies out there testing and trying to ‘make a buck” sure, but how easy is it to slip in 100,000 samples of a new virus in a batch of vaccines designed and made in a military Microbiological weapons testing laboratory. 50 states, each gets a batch of 2,000 but split into 10 different towns and cities in each state. That’s a mere 200 for a town/city- not easy to detect. (Just trying to make a point, I’m sure bigger cities would get more). If the Virus has a 1-2 week incubation period, one could spread it to hundreds before coming down with the new virus and dying. People will talk trying to blame the vaccine, but they’ll hear testimony from others that took the vaccine and are fine. Many maybe from the same facilities.

So how does all these lab rats testing stuff fit in? They don’t . Sure you can run tests on the dead guys, but what you going to find out? The same story the CDC would have announced on the local news that the Virus has Mutated. Ya’ll believed the first B.S story.?

The bottom line is this. Yes someone is going to make money off this, Many “Elites have admitted in Public that there is too many people on the earth, Causing disease, unemployment, over population, even pollution(I guess). They want a one world government and need it at manageable levels.

I’ll not be surprised if we have a very big war in the next 2 years and Million of innocent get killed in the Biological cross hairs of war. Sure it’ll be blamed on “Terrorists”.

Nuff said. Believe what you want!




[edit on 12-11-2009 by SharkBait]

Originally posted by SharkBait
reply to post by ecoparity

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CDC admit that the “H1N1 is a make up of 3 different viruses. Oh that’s normal too, but its never happened in the history of “lives’…EVER!


[edit on 12-11-2009 by SharkBait]

It happened in 1918, actually.

There have been quite a few influenza viruses with multiple RNA segments from multiple species. Flu is a species hopper, it can pass to just about any mammal as well as birds and researchers have even found it in insects, fish and so on.

Lab manipulated viruses leave evidence, this one does have evidence of a lab origin but it looks like it came from pig vaccines which were not administered correctly to a herd which was badly managed.

I'm not going on my own "instincts" on this, I have family and friends who work as micro biologists, virologists, epidemiologists, etc. These people are not "NWO" supporters, more than a few of them work very hard to expose the WHO as a political entity rather than a public health one.

There is no way around the fact that so many people like this would know very quickly if any of these things were true. Due to the way this flu broke out many of them dove in to look for evidence of intentional release of a lab virus. Some of them thought it might have been a lab accident, some of them thought terrorism but they all looked for the evidence.

The real conspiracy, besides the one I've posited involves a massive cover up of a multi national agra corp taking advantage of corruption in Mexico to circumvent health and safety regulations, of the WHO working to preserve global trade rather than lives to the point where information was withheld that killed people, of World governments allowing a substance to be used they know will cause long term health problems....

I'm sorry but the popular conspiracy is just not possible. It sells a lot of snake oil and gives people tons of web traffic but it just cannot happen the way it has been described.

I know how you feel, it bother me greatly to see so much ignorance in the way members of the CT community are willing to go along and blow off doing their own research. I keep seeing the same fictions posted over and over and over. I've put in the time and gone after first line, original sources - there's a lot of BS in the popular theory.



[edit on 12-11-2009 by ecoparity]

well I have a few issues with the OP's posts

1. this is also the first time in history that we are supposed to get not just 1 flu shot but 3 (as the swine flu needs 2 shots)

2. Each seasonal influenza vaccine contains – one A (H3N2) virus, one A (H1N1) virus (not the 2009 H1N1 virus), and one B virus. (as per CDC):

www.cdc.gov...

(we would be getting 2 H1N1 shots in addition to the seasonal, all of the same thing)

3. why have NO charges been brought against baxter for breach of bio security? with the level of requirements needed just to ship the "experimental product" there is no way all the labs that got it would not know what is is, unless shipped undser false pretexts, let alone mix the strains.
(we ship various hydraulic fluids internationally, and thats a nightmare at best with a health hazards of 2 or less)

4. How could research persons be corrupted? easy, their boses tell them to do something else. Managers are not very often from the field they manage. especially in large corporate america. To control the educational community, control the grants via the dept heads. its all about the big cash pile.

I am concerned that your arguments have few links to verify. in addition to the fact that your sig links the same thread we are on. most of your posts are only on this topic. and IMHO some of your information is dangerously close to dis information, but when pressed, you attack the community.

I am sorry to say that I have severe reservations about your credit-abily
and would like to see more facts as opposed to conjecture

OP, don't mean to offend you, and if you are a gov agent, I am sure that if you look at the list, when you fine me, the infomation will be...well...lets just say...concerning...lol

dr

reply to post by ecoparity

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Erm i made a thread about this exact theory a while back, the conspiracy community being the real targets and it barely got a response.

Oh well.

Originally posted by dr dodge
well I have a few issues with the OP's posts

1. this is also the first time in history that we are supposed to get not just 1 flu shot but 3 (as the swine flu needs 2 shots)

2. Each seasonal influenza vaccine contains – one A (H3N2) virus, one A (H1N1) virus (not the 2009 H1N1 virus), and one B virus. (as per CDC):

www.cdc.gov...

(we would be getting 2 H1N1 shots in addition to the seasonal, all of the same thing)

3. why have NO charges been brought against baxter for breach of bio security? with the level of requirements needed just to ship the "experimental product" there is no way all the labs that got it would not know what is is, unless shipped undser false pretexts, let alone mix the strains.
(we ship various hydraulic fluids internationally, and thats a nightmare at best with a health hazards of 2 or less)

4. How could research persons be corrupted? easy, their boses tell them to do something else. Managers are not very often from the field they manage. especially in large corporate america. To control the educational community, control the grants via the dept heads. its all about the big cash pile.

I am concerned that your arguments have few links to verify. in addition to the fact that your sig links the same thread we are on. most of your posts are only on this topic. and IMHO some of your information is dangerously close to dis information, but when pressed, you attack the community.

I am sorry to say that I have severe reservations about your credit-abily
and would like to see more facts as opposed to conjecture

OP, don't mean to offend you, and if you are a gov agent, I am sure that if you look at the list, when you fine me, the infomation will be...well...lets just say...concerning...lol

dr

There are two seperate vaccines, one for seasonal flu and one for pandemic flu. The info you're reading there is old, they aren't doing the seasonal flu vaccines because they claim swine flu displaced them completely.

You don't have to get the seasonal flu vaccine or even the pandemic one if you don't want to and if you do get the pandemic flu shot it is only one vaccine. They thought "two" might be needed a couple of months back but that did not work out to be needed.

Children who get the pandemic vaccine have to get two shots because they want to limit the amount of the dead virus to a smaller level than is given to adults. It's safer for children to take it in two doses. (My kids won't be getting it but they are not running around to be exposed and get other kids sick also).

I could spend a few hours of my time digging up websites to show people all the safeguards and controls on vaccines and all the study performed on them and on the virus by a hundred thousand plus students, researchers, scientists, etc but it's easy enough to check for yourselves and no one wants to hear it anyway. It's not that hard to get in touch with a virologist, micro biologist, etc - why not call or email one and ask them?

I'm amazed people can pretend that only a few big companies are looking at the virus and vaccines. There are students, University labs, private companies, virologist, micro biologists all over the World watching. They aren't all working for big pharma, I know several who performed complete genetic assays on the virus and the vaccine because they wanted to check on the conspiracies for themselves. So far not a single one of these hundreds of thousands of people have spoken up and verified the rumors.

Where's all the proof that the virus is a bio weapon and the vaccine also? Can't we even get a single genetic analysis that details what nasty stuff is hidden in them?

Unfortunately the popular conspiracy has zero proof, just blogs full of the same baseless, often ridiculous claims.

Baxter wasn't charged because contrary to popular myth the substance shipped was not a vaccine. It was not produced for people and yes I'm working on some things which will tell people the real story. They are probably a corrupt company and they definitely made a mistake but what happened and what is being claimed happened are apples and oranges.

I don't have to answer the rest of your ridiculous accusations but I'm all over ATS, if you can't find my other posts then learn how. This thread is in my sig so people on other threads who want to go off topic and argue can easily find this one where it is "on topic".

The rest of your claims and ad hominem attacks will go un answered, I find them hilarious and a bit pathetic.

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