To those who have served ... you're not all heroes

reply to post by Lurch

Worth a star dude. First one I've ever given. I recently left the U.S for a less evil country. I get a lot of questions about my old homeland and I say The U.S is like a drunken teenager with self esteem issues that you have handed the car keys to. No good will ever come of it. They might get it right eventually. I don't have that kind of time.

reply to post by Ulala



I take my hat off to you for expressing yourself and not witholding punches. I agree with you somewhat but WW2 was really no different. Why?
en.wikipedia.org...

And if you are jew or gentile

Commandments
6,8,9,10 thrown out the window on this issue.
God wins we lose.

I'm not sure if the OP edited their post before I read it or not but it seems like many people here are lashing out with the knee jerk response of being outraged by a simple opinion that not all soldiers are heroes. Obviously there have been many heroes who have served in militaries around the world but it is also true that there are people who have volunteered to go to war with less than admirable ambitions in mind and have committed some very heinous deeds.

I respect the soldiers who were drafted and fought in the world wars, including my grandfather who I wish had lived long enough for me to know him. It seems as well that the OP has made distinctions between those wars and the ones being fought in the middle east at the moment. Now, I don't profess to know all of the reasons my countrymen are sent and fighting overseas and whether or not they should be there, whether it be for oil and opium or democracy and freedom.

I guess I just wanted to add a post that wasn't biting the head off the OP, who may have been a bit crass in his posting but also raised a valid point. Not all soldiers are heroes. I also would like to point out that PEOPLE always have a choice of whether or not they will kill and destroy in the name of some corrupt politicians and the fact that someone was "just following orders" does not excuse anything, we are all freethinking human beings with the ability to choose how we act.

Originally posted by Doc Tesla
Every time there's a holiday there has to be one troll who has to start a thread against it.

obvious troll is obvious

I always wondered if ATS points are redeemable for something of value. Seems like it's every ATSr's duty to post something controversial to collect lots of flags and replies.

So what do you get to trade those points for? airline miles?

-rrr

reply to post by Agent-ATS

Apologies for the perceived lack of respect.
I also served with Brit Commandos,(Red Berets)
Awesome fellows, and even better warriors.
And since we're on about it, I also served with Turks,(Fearless as any)
,Iranians,(stay outta their way), Canadians,(Never give up).and several others that I apologize in advance for not naming specifically.
But if you'd been, you should know, not knowing is the best.

reply to post by Ulala


So you don't understand the difference between policy makers and the common service member. You're ignorant and will forever remain that way.

All of us yanks are fat and lazy huh? To bad we are the ones who saved europe not once but twice with our young men. Some of you really need to grab a book and read history. It seems the facts dont matter anymore this younger generation I am afraid may be lost.

They may not all be heroes, but they are far more heroic than I am for the sheer fact of joining the military.

I don't care if you're in a long period of peace. Being part of the military includes the inherent increased risk of death. Knowing that and still joining is something I consider to be a heroic act on some level and I'm sure you can agree with this at least partly OP.

I am a realistic Marine Corps combat veteran that is realistic enough to know that if corporations didn't profit from war there would not be wars...... It has been that way for the last 100 years and longer...... I can not support any war that this country has or will perpetrate but there is no way than I can turn my back on a war veteran...... As for holidays, they are all a waste of time..... Patriotism is total B.S.

[edit on 12-11-2009 by LadySkadi]

reply to post by Subjective Truth


I would have considered it an allied effort.

That said I thank all of their heroes who fought. Even the french who get such a bad rap, their maquis and urban heroes who stood up and did what they could.

This thread is a very real, very perfect example of the deep seated, very entrenched militaristic pseudo patriotic attitudes that are ruining America and the USA. The founding fathers said it best when they talked about trade with everyone and entangling alliances with none. The US military does not represent the US citizens in this day and age and saying they defend the Constitution from enemies foreign and DOMESTIC is insulting and offensive to those of us that actually know what goes on behind closed doors and in this world. Look, the USA that our grandparents grew up in and fought and died for is not the same country today. Just look at the business world back then. Sure there were a lot of wealthy people and a lot of top execs making lots of money but if you look at the exponential growth or corporate pay it's truly disgusting nowadays. Look at our government. Not only has our dollar been devalued our freedoms and rights are being infringed upon and stripped away. People have to understand that the individual US soldier and the greater actions of the US military as a whole are not mutually exclusive. That's like absolving all the WallStreet pigs who have pillaged and plundered our economy, financial system etc. Oh wait, I'm just a lone trader;hedge fund/banker whoever management executive, I'm not responsible for what my company as a whole does. Pathetic.

I'll tell you what my frugal, patriotic, humble, proud, WWII fighter pilot grandfather is a far cry from the average grunt serving in the US military today that's for sure. The upper echelons of military leadership i..e the Generals and the old white Brass are just as corrupt as the old boys club we call Capitol Hill. The US military is simply an extension of the corrupt and tyrannical US government. Sure there are a few lone wolfs out there like Ron Paul but overall the entire system needs a hiccup and 90% of Congress and the Senate, including that lame duck empty suit of a President need to be kicked out on the street to fend for themselves .

reply to post by darkmaninperth

I'm sure the Germans in WW2 thought the same way.

Do you believe that the job you are doing or did was worth it?

Your probably right about what the Germans thought.

But I can't speak for what the Germans thought or believed. I'm American.

I can tell you that the job I did was well worth it and there will never be a day where I will live to regret serving my country.

Appreciate your comment.

I don't think that just because you see the current world's wars as unfair and unjust- like most of us-, doesn't mean it's respectable to come out and say such things on Veterans or Remembrance day. If you don't agree with a holiday, that is fine. But you sure don't see threads popping up here on Christmas day telling everyone why, just because they don't believe in Christ, that Christmas is undeserving. In the same way, most decent people don't object to alternate religious holidays that aren't apart of their own belief system.

Respect for Veterans should be everyday. Should war be glorified? No, I am sure it is a terrible thing to say the least. Are wars justified? Well that's a topic of a whole new thread. But really, you need to sometimes put your own personal feelings and opinions aside and just let a day go by without objecting. It never hurt you to open the door for an elderly man who fought for your life 70 years ago, or to smile at another man the same age as you who was in Afghanistan fighting an "unjust" war, did it?

reply to post by Ulala


What language do you speak again?

You're welcome.

If your going to pull this # wait a few days man.

You could do this crap tomorrow and I think no one would have an issue but your doing this on November 11.

reply to post by concernedcitizan


Hero's stay and change things for the better. Cowards run away. It has always been that way.

Click here for more information.

Originally posted by OzWeatherman
I guess putting your life on the line and fighting under your countries flag doesnt equate to anything these days huh Op?

Spot on!

i totaly agree with the op.

No follow up in 6 pages, so so SO obviously a troll post.

Stating that not everyone is a hero on Remembrance Day is just shallow and mean-spirited.

I'm amazed at how many responses this clown got. Why give this person the attention they crave?