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To those who have served ... you're not all heroes

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posted on Nov, 11 2009 @ 05:57 PM
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I would like to make one more point, if I may.

(In the US) we are free to complain against wars in general and any specific one.

Either what has or has not been done or the reason for war-it is our right.

However..............

It is not these brave men and women who chose what if any wars are fought by the US.

Let that sink in for a second, they DON"T choose to fight or not, they are told.

It is the president/congress that picks which wars to fight and for how long and using what methods.

I have no issues with any American complain to congress/president about which wars are fought and what means are used to fight them.

I find it disrespectful to make complaints at the men and women of the military on Veterans day.

Wait a day before or after and complain to those who can actually make these decisions, not the poor slobs who simply carry them out.




posted on Nov, 11 2009 @ 05:58 PM
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I was not referring to the soldiers but the cowards they defend just to clarify.

Subjective Truth

[edit on 11-11-2009 by Subjective Truth]



posted on Nov, 11 2009 @ 05:59 PM
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Originally posted by gazerstar
Guys, please don't entertain this person. It's a waste of time and a trap to spread further negativity in the world not to mention a desperate hope to have a long thread of his own. I don't usually say things like this, but the intention of this thread is too obvious to ignore. The OP's post is a huge maturity 'fail' as some like to say--especially given the intentional timing. It serves no purpose other than trying to hurt people, and there's nothing progressive or enlightening about that.


Why I would usually agree with this, in this case I would suggest that people not agreeing with the OP show their displeasure.

For us Australians, yesterday was Rememberance day for our fallens heroes, and I believe the same day is also significant in the USA. I hope everyone shows their respect



posted on Nov, 11 2009 @ 05:59 PM
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reply to post by Subjective Truth
 


For what little it matters..........

I respect your clarifying your position.

Cheers mate.



posted on Nov, 11 2009 @ 06:00 PM
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Take a deep breath everyone...

The OP owns everyone on this thread...even me since I have now chimed in.


This guy is living in our heads and not paying rent...despite a marginal amount of truth to the OP, it would seem we have an additional definition to the term Troll - Opportunist...





OP - you give a bad name to trolls...


To all others partaking in this thread, take back control...I understand - I served and do not dare compare my enlistment to the G.I. Generation, as the OP has so amteurishly tried to label every veteran as claiming this, but flaming this guy just seems to benefit him more than anyone else.


Just Drive-On and forget about him...



posted on Nov, 11 2009 @ 06:00 PM
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I'm not a hero. My time in the military was very close to what I did as a civilian. Unremarkable.

I probably shouldn't have even brought it up.

[edit on 11-11-2009 by whaaa]



posted on Nov, 11 2009 @ 06:02 PM
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Dont think i have ever read an opening post that has enraged me as much as this in 5 year on ATS.

As an ex soldier i can assure you as a veteran of many theatres of operation soldiers, airman, etc are there in their roles only. They are not leaders, Politicians etc. Their allegiance is to each other firstly and to do a job they "Believe" is right and serving their country and each other.

A soldier is not employed to be political. He trusts the judgement of those set in power above him and obeys the orders given to him by his superiors.

I have lost a lost a number of friends in Afghan and Iraq. I challenge you to declare to their families and children that they were "not" heroes. 5 of my former comrades were killed in separate incidents whilst trying to rescue a fallen comrade. Again this shows their allegiance to each other and definitely shows true bravery and heroism.

I stood proudly on sunday at a remembrance parade in my city. I had my medals on, My beret and blazer. I was one of approx 2000 ex forces personell there for the service aswell as 1000s of civillians. I watched as older WW2 veterans applauded the young 19 year old soldier in a wheel chair with no legs. I watched them also later come buy a drink for other disabled young soldiers. I sank back and realised i was looking at heroes from all generations right in front of me. Regardless of age, sex, race, religion etc. All within their own right were heroes. A gap between generations bridged by heroic acts for which they all understood each other for their allegiance to comrades and discipline of following orders.

I left the service early as i had to fly to Paris with work. I took a shuttle coach to the airport. Me and some guy were the only 2 people on board. he was a WW2 veteran from the Navy and he was sat facing me. He asked about my medals and i asked about his and we started conversation. He told me "The heroes are the young men we see today. They are the heroes now fighting for each other and their country just like we did" I asked "Do you think we should be there, I mean its not like we are fighting for our country like you did" The guy looked at me like i should know better and simply said. "They are just doing what they are told, Like we did. We just have to make sure we remember the ones who dont come back and help the ones like we saw today" I almost choked with emotion. here was a guy who had seen action in a world war yet now had complete admiration for the services of today. For a second he was another of my comrades, another brother in arms just serving different shifts.

ok so i have waffled im annoyed. We all know on this here board that if it was a soldiers decision then we wouldnt even be in Afghan. The point is its not their decision. its the decision the politicians



posted on Nov, 11 2009 @ 06:03 PM
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Originally posted by jam321
Just ordinary Americans volunteering to do a job for the country that we love.


I'm sure the Germans in WW2 thought the same way.

Do you believe that the job you are doing or did was worth it?



posted on Nov, 11 2009 @ 06:07 PM
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No one is innocent. American taxpayers fund all the nefarious deeds of their government. Whether you agree with policy or not your paying for it.So you might as well enjoy the spoils of blood and treasure. People on both sides have paid a high price for it.



posted on Nov, 11 2009 @ 06:08 PM
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reply to post by Ulala
 


I agree with you Ulala. I'm no hero. I killed people that were enemies of my country, and I was s***-scared most of the time. I remember once -- and this still haunts me sometimes -- trying to hold pieces of my friend's brains in his ruined head. It was a foolish thing to do. It was the only thing to do.

You go ahead, speak your piece. I and many of us will listen. I don't compare myself to heroes past nor present. There were soldiers whose epics are larger-than-life and individuals whose lives made a true and historic difference -- people that we remember and books are written about; these are the titans of history and they share things in common that few that haven't been in combat understand: There is a gift that is given by each and every enlisted person, and it is the gift of sacrifice. They are willing to die for the benefit of the many of their countrymen.

You have the hallowed priviledge to rant about whatever you wish, unlike many countries. You can freely challenge your government, you can characterize me as a delusioned killer, if that makes you happy. There were those whose memories you besmirch by choosing this, of all days, to rant about it. Whereever in "Northern Europe" you are, guess what...... there are men and women who have died for your priviledges, your country's ideals.

Perhaps it would do you a personal benefit to contemplate what you have given up or sacrificed for your country. Who knows? Perhaps you'll discover something heroic within yourself, something honorable, something worthy of common courtesy and respect that you seem to want to deny others who have earned it.

I am not one of them. I am no hero.


reply to post by OzWeatherman
 


Yes. It was Rememberance Day as well in the Cayman Islands. We have a doubleday, as many were both Seamen and Veterans. During WW II, the Cayman Islands had one of the most -- per capita -- enlisted... many of them Merchant Marines.

It was a celebration here, not a somber event. A celebration of respect and thanks for a selfless job done well.



posted on Nov, 11 2009 @ 06:09 PM
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Originally posted by Subjective Truth


Just take a look at your avatar it shows a young man with his head down, shoulders slumped,and eyes looking sideways.


Well, lets take a look at YOUR avatar....an old white dude wearing a white powdered wig..
......what the heck does that say about you??



posted on Nov, 11 2009 @ 06:11 PM
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I do very well understand that this coward is a troll, but it does not change a thing. To protect your fellow countrymen while they sleep safe at night is about as close to a hero as you get.

The powers that be love this we all sit in the same boat just some of us are rowing while others are making holes in the bottom. The only reason you see a rise in freedoms being taken away is because of these cowards.
It is the truth! and thank you mrmonsoon you seem like a stand up person



posted on Nov, 11 2009 @ 06:11 PM
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Originally posted by rainfall

Originally posted by Subjective Truth


Just take a look at your avatar it shows a young man with his head down, shoulders slumped,and eyes looking sideways.


Well, lets take a look at YOUR avatar....an old white dude wearing a white powdered wig..
......what the heck does that say about you??


And what exactly does that have to do with the topic in question?



posted on Nov, 11 2009 @ 06:12 PM
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Originally posted by Ulala
Nope, I don't think you're all heroes.




I and many of those non-Heroes would fight and die defending your right to sit there and spew your verbal excrement.

Think About that!

[edit on 11-11-2009 by SLAYER69]



posted on Nov, 11 2009 @ 06:13 PM
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It is Thomas Jefferson have you ever heard of him?



posted on Nov, 11 2009 @ 06:17 PM
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Originally posted by rainfall
Well, lets take a look at YOUR avatar....an old white dude wearing a white powdered wig..
......what the heck does that say about you??


Mine is looking down on the Eart from pace, mine says I think I am a God looking down on my creation.

Maybe it also means I thought it looked like a cool picture.

You do have to admit, it is a silly argument.



posted on Nov, 11 2009 @ 06:20 PM
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reply to post by Ulala
 


Grow up and learn to separate the war from the soldier. The soldier didn't start the war, and nobody signed up because they wanted to go fight in an unjust and oppressive conflict.

They signed up because they felt a sense of pride and patriotism, and decided they'd like to participate in securing your freedom to disgust us all in the future.

Most soldiers could earn more money cleaning gutters, and a large percentage are just as adamantly opposed to Iraq and Afghanistan as you are. Unfortunately, it's not the soldier that gets to pick and choose their fights.

One of these lame threads comes up every Veterans day, but yours wins top honors for the biggest fail ever.



posted on Nov, 11 2009 @ 06:25 PM
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I love it just like the cowards they are they make bold comments and then they leave. And just to clarify further I believe that all servicemen and women do a nobel job.



posted on Nov, 11 2009 @ 06:26 PM
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Coward?

I think he's quite brave for posting something like this knowing that he will most likely get flamed and scoffed at by people like you.

You're probably one of those people who gets brainwashed by the all the MSM propaganda that gets spewed out every day on the idiot box: All of our soldiers are heroes, they're fighting for your freedom, do not say anything against the state or the military or your a coward and a terrorist!

I think that is what the OP is referring to. Media propaganda which portrays ALL soldiers as heroes. You're bombarded with this constantly. Even though the soldiers themselves do not consider themselves heroes. As some others have posted, they're just doing their job and trying to get home in one piece.

Last time I checked, peaceful nations don't start wars. Aggressor nations do.

I respect our veterans, I really do. There are a lot of good soldiers out there present and past, I am not questioning that, but there are a lot of bad ones too. It is still beyond me why a person would volunteer to fight in a war that based on false pretenses? To secure certain interests for an uncaring malevolent government. Social and economic factors comes into play with a few of these recruits I suppose.

Both the wars in Iraq and Afghanistan are ILLEGAL! And you know it.


[edit on 11-11-2009 by kommunist]



posted on Nov, 11 2009 @ 06:29 PM
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reply to post by kommunist
 


Fine, they might be illegal, but does that give you the right to go out and target them with demeaning and disrespectfulcomments? Most these guys have families for crying out loud

Blame the government...not the bloody soldiers






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