To those who have served ... you're not all heroes

Originally posted by SkurkNilsen

As to paramilitary CIA funded terrorist organisations, what about al-qaida/taliban? What about Bin Laden who was a CIA tactician(I say was because he has been dead for some time)? How about Jim Jones and the Peoples Temple, what about MK-Ultra? Experimentation on their own people by the U.S government, in the spirit of nazi-Germany perchance?

Cap, you're so far out in the woods here, there just ain't no finding your way back into civilization.

CIA funding of al-Qaeda and the Taliban? Bin Laden a CIA tactician? Those I can speak to personally, and they are LIES, of the lowest order. Not even logical. Because of that, all the rest of your assertions are suspect.

Have fun with those paranoid delusions of yours, but please, stay out there in those scary woods. If you come back here, you'll only scare the children.

reply to post by Ulala


We dont consider ourselves heroes, nor do we stand shoulder to shoulder with the outstanding men that fought in World War 2, but I can humbly say that we do our job so people like you don't have to. We serve because we choose to and want to make this country a better place from all enemies foreign and domestic.

Have you ever had a flash bang go off by your head? or perhaps and breaching charge rip open a door right in front of you almost hitting you?

Or wait... you have definitely woken up every day tasting sand.... no?? hmm ever see you best friends get blown up by an IED??? More importantly, have you ever heard the zips and zings of being shot at??

Then until you do, I highly suggest you don't disrespect the men and women fighting for this country, especially on Veterans Day.

Originally posted by nenothtu

Originally posted by SkurkNilsen

As to paramilitary CIA funded terrorist organisations, what about al-qaida/taliban? What about Bin Laden who was a CIA tactician(I say was because he has been dead for some time)? How about Jim Jones and the Peoples Temple, what about MK-Ultra? Experimentation on their own people by the U.S government, in the spirit of nazi-Germany perchance?

Cap, you're so far out in the woods here, there just ain't no finding your way back into civilization.

CIA funding of al-Qaeda and the Taliban? Bin Laden a CIA tactician? Those I can speak to personally, and they are LIES, of the lowest order. Not even logical. Because of that, all the rest of your assertions are suspect.

Have fun with those paranoid delusions of yours, but please, stay out there in those scary woods. If you come back here, you'll only scare the children.

To be fair, they do have some merit, Bin ladin was a paid fighter against the russians when they invaded back in the 80's. the Taliban was also paid by the CIA, and Bin Laden did raise to a higher rank, as he was loaded with cash. The relationship with the CIA stopped after the USSR fell.

I understand the job is hard, no one is arguing that.

However it would be nice if you could recognize like us, this is unconstitutional use of our military.

What happens should the day come you are ordered to arrest citizens engaging in lawful protest because congress has unlawfully passed a law deeming it so? Will you hold true to yourself and refuse those unlawful orders or will you do as is being done now and ignorantly submit to unconstitutional use of our military?

Some of you may excuse murder by citing it's legal to KILL another under war articles. However the war itself is illegal... So you are not under Geneva protections. But the reality is the reality is the rules are made up on the spot. So unless a real superpower not under global influence rises up against us, you won't face punishment for your actions.

But currently you are not serving the United States of America or her citizens. You are serving foreign interests and the city-state Washington D.C.'s corporate interests.

Simply put Veteran's Day exists as a corporate holiday to glorify the use of the military to foreign interests FIRST. And a courteous after thought to our Veteran's second.

I agree your job is hell, it is not easy and you want recognition for that. Then you need to recognize you are the ones fighting on their behalf and not ours.

Simply put, If China accused the USA of crimes and invaded us as we have several nations. Would you not stand up and fight back? They are fathers, mothers, sons and daughters as we are. Try to remember that next time you invade their homes forcing them out at gunpoint terrorizing them. Imagine if it was your family. These people have done nothing to us to deserve it. They have not threatened me or my way of life.

If anything the use of military has destroyed my liberties.

---

I did want to add though, I'm not discrediting the true heroism you display amongst yourselves in attempting to save each other and all come home in one piece. Or prevent what little wrong you can.

[edit on 13-11-2009 by mryanbrown]

I couldn't have put it any better.

The wars we are involved in are straight politics. And a clear example of why i WON'T join the armed forces. I'm not going to die to fatten someone's wallet, negative!

However, no generation can come close to the boys of WW1 and 2. War today is fought with technology, so we don't have those causalities.

The US has yet to face another world power in war, it's pointless to both sides right now

[edit on 13-11-2009 by cenpuppie]

reply to post by mryanbrown


Alright, I can see that this is devolving into a "The NWO is comming" thread, but I do feel that this does deserve an answer.

If I was ordered to institute martial law, I would guess that we would all question that, as the air force does not do that sort of thing. Now, if the Senate some how manages to pass a bill that says "Arrest everyone who does not agree with us' I think that the military as a general rule will stay out of it. Please dont confuse the Armed Forces with Police, we dont have the power to arrest a civilian outside of Marital Law, and on a military instillation. Also it is important to note that the reason that our country has been so rich and successful is due in small part to the fact that most people are secure in the knowledge that no one is going to come to your door and arrest you for no reason. I am sorry, but if you dont agree with a law and choose not to follow it, that is not 'no reason'.

So to recap, The airforce at least has more important things to do, like guard plane, bombs, missiles, nukes, and all the other various things that we have then to come to your house, take your computer and put you in a prison camp. Anyway, if we did that, that would mean that we would have to take a whole mess of CBTs, we would have to sit in endless training classes on how to corall people, and how not to do anthing wrong. Then we would have to sit in on yet more classes on how to not rape our political prisoners, and then we would have to find the one working bus in the whole air force that is not claimed by the SFs or some officer to bus your anti-NWO butt to some yet to be built prison camp.

All in all, not gonna happen, and don't even get me started on the army, do you have any idea how long it takes paper work to filter through all of the various layer of Burocrats?

EDIT: Changed 'do' to 'door'

[edit on 13-11-2009 by Obinhi]

Originally posted by mryanbrown
ISimply put, If China accused the USA of crimes and invaded us as we have several nations. Would you not stand up and fight back? They are fathers, mothers, sons and daughters as we are. Try to remember that next time you invade their homes forcing them out at gunpoint terrorizing them. Imagine if it was your family. These people have done nothing to us to deserve it. They have not threatened me or my way of life.
[edit on 13-11-2009 by mryanbrown]

Sorry i missed this part in my reply. To put it simply, we invade houses and scare kids and pregnate women more often then not because:
A) We were shot at from that house or
B) We got information form a local saying that some naredo-well was holed up there.
We know it would suck if it were us and dont do it for fun.

Originally posted by vonspurter
reply to post by keepithush

 

Support the troops? While I was serving I didn't give a toss whether the people back home supported my actions or not. I don't think anyone serving gives a toss what you, the public think. So whine on here as much as you like about not supporting 'the troops' because 'the troops' don't care about your opinion.

You're civilians - to 'the troops' your opinion is worthless. What counts are the people who you serve with. All you tin foil hat idiots bragging about serving the NWO blah blah blah - get out more!

Exactly...your post proves the whole point. You see civilians as someone who's thoughts are "worthless". You've basically drawn a line in the sand against us. So it's only logical to assume that with that attitude, not only do we have foreign enemies to worry about, but YOU (the military) are a domestic enemy.

You're an exclusive club/gang/cult within our borders. Paid with Government funding and at the same time having the BALLS to claim some higher status than us.

Look at your post and wonder why civilians feel the way we do. Because you're not the only one. Thoughts like yours are commonplace.

Originally posted by nenothtu

Originally posted by SkurkNilsen

As to paramilitary CIA funded terrorist organisations, what about al-qaida/taliban? What about Bin Laden who was a CIA tactician(I say was because he has been dead for some time)? How about Jim Jones and the Peoples Temple, what about MK-Ultra? Experimentation on their own people by the U.S government, in the spirit of nazi-Germany perchance?

Cap, you're so far out in the woods here, there just ain't no finding your way back into civilization.

CIA funding of al-Qaeda and the Taliban? Bin Laden a CIA tactician? Those I can speak to personally, and they are LIES, of the lowest order. Not even logical. Because of that, all the rest of your assertions are suspect.

Have fun with those paranoid delusions of yours, but please, stay out there in those scary woods. If you come back here, you'll only scare the children.

Ridicule and namecalling....
I guess that is to be expected... After all this is a conspiracy forum.
Have a nice day

reply to post by Obinhi


I appreciate that we can agree to disagree in a orderly and civil way.
You sir are a gentleman

Originally posted by CT_Flyboy
Too bad the OP wouldn't have the balls to stand in front of a military group and say his peace.

As many here have said, NONE OF US who serve consider ourselves heros. In my case I served for almost 30 years and did the job asked of me, sometimes in places of the world no-one else wanted to be, but it was a job that my country asked me to do.

I find it very interesting that those who have never served a cause greater than themselves find it so easy to criticize those of us who have and still do serve.

I don't agree with the Iraq or Afghan wars either, BUT when i raised my hand in 1965 and gave my oath, I agreed to do as my elected officials and military commanders ordered.

If you aren't military you may not know that military personnel do not have the right to criticize or question the orders handed down.

He may not , but I would. A lot of you military guys have made the veiled threat that we civilians wouldn't have the balls to stand up to you. As if none of us have experience with the physical. You have NO clue who you are talking to on the other end. Rule #1, never underestimate the other guy.

Your Bravado is just that, words. Please note, there are some of us civilians that do know what you know, and can rumble like the big boys, (and may smile while doing it)

Some of us are actually nutty like that. (wink)

Number one reason I wouldn't want to live anywhere else, is for the very fact someone can say these things. Do I agree? Nope, but I don't also take everything to heart.

I served, and in no way would ever call myself a hero. I couldn't hold a candle to the men of past that gave their lives. As someone else said, most of us served for personal reason. The love of the country, patriotism, education (hahahaha, those that been in probably have a good idea why I laugh at that one).

So good for you speaking your mind and your opinion.

Originally posted by Glencairn
reply to post by rainfall

 

I will be happy to converse with you here in the thread, but have no interest in replying to your U2U. I'm sorry that you can't even compose a simple U2U that doesn't consist of name calling, baseless accusations, and rude remarks, but since you couldn't I have no reason to believe that any off thread reply to you would be met by anything other than more of the same behavior that you directed at me in your first U2U.

I'm sorry you felt my U2U message was rude..I posted it for people to decide for themselves but it was removed...I did not know it was against policy to post U2U messages...but with your permission it could be posted...

I know the topic is about vets and why they are all not heroes and I think it would help if you allowed the U2U to be posted..

Originally posted by December_Rain

Originally posted by vonspurter
reply to post by keepithush

 

Support the troops? While I was serving I didn't give a toss whether the people back home supported my actions or not. I don't think anyone serving gives a toss what you, the public think. So whine on here as much as you like about not supporting 'the troops' because 'the troops' don't care about your opinion.

You're civilians - to 'the troops' your opinion is worthless. What counts are the people who you serve with. All you tin foil hat idiots bragging about serving the NWO blah blah blah - get out more!

If you dont care why post alongwith other so called "vets" showing how unhappy you are with the truth? Fact is you do care and we dont care to call you hero or support you for collecting fat salaries to do your job. You are earning a living for that you are not a hero or shouldnt be supported anymore than any part of govt. servant is supported.

Fat salaries...? Dude someone told you a whopper.

who cares what you think

reply to post by Ulala


I don't have to read any of the follow up posts to post my opinion on this. My father served in Vietnam...I was and remain disgusted at those who chose to spit on and disrespect those that went over there and experienced things we could not imagine in our worst nightmares. I realize that not ever soldier is necessarily involved by their own choice, but to flagrantly talk down to every serviceman and woman just because they are serving in what you personally consider an unjust war really disgusts me.

No war is the desirable option or solution to any problem, however I know that none of those serving wish for it to be the answer but do so anyway and ever day I am sitting in the comfort of my home I think about where they are and what they are going through.

While I defend your right to your opinion, I nonetheless find it sad and offensive and am thankful for those that appreciate our men and women in uniform.

Ah, Veteran's Day.. Where everyone gathers 'round to support the war and smites any who speak against it.... including other veterans...

... yeah... yay Veteran's Day.

[edit on 13-11-2009 by SyphonX]

Originally posted by Obinhi


To be fair, they do have some merit, bin Ladin was a paid fighter against the russians when they invaded back in the 80's. the Taliban was also paid by the CIA, and Bin Laden did raise to a higher rank, as he was loaded with cash. The relationship with the CIA stopped after the USSR fell.

That's a big, fat, ponderous NEGATIVE on all of the above.

Bin Laden was NOT a "paid fighter", he came to Afghanistan with his own money - well, his share of his daddy's money. He actually REFUSED CIA assistance. Matter of fact, he wasn't much of ANY sort of "fighter", paid or not, against the Russians. He only went into combat one time that I'm aware of, just so he could say he did, and even then hung back and claimed to be "directing" the battle. Bin Laden never had any sort of "rank". He was just a rich guy who mostly did construction in Afghanistan, although he did that very well. Sucked as a fighter, though.

Taliban was NOT paid by the CIA, they didn't even exist when the CIA was there. The Taliban was not formed until after the Russians and the CIA had both left the theater. It was formed and fostered by Pakistani ISI in the early 90's, and didn't rise to prominence until the mid-90's. The objective of the ISI was to gain de-facto control of the Afghan Government, but the mujahideen had other ideas, and went to war against the Taliban too, since they were foreigners as much as the Russians were. The Taliban never controlled more than 60% of the country, and was at constant war with the mujahideen to maintain even that much.

Nope, they're barking up the wrong tree with that CIA-AQ connection. They need to study the timeline better. Seems they got that BS from Brzinski, which really makes me laugh that they fell for it. Has any one ever paid any attention to some of the OTHER stuff he's said? LOL

Originally posted by mryanbrown
I understand the job is hard, no one is arguing that.

However it would be nice if you could recognize like us, this is unconstitutional use of our military.

Violating WHICH Constitutional provision?

Some of you may excuse murder by citing it's legal to KILL another under war articles.

It's not "murder". Murder is an unjustifiable homicide. Just because YOU are against it, doesn't make it objectively "unjustifiable". I'd reccommend taking it to a court somewhere, preferably one with jurisdiction, to decide on the matter of justifiability. Good luck with that.

However the war itself is illegal... So you are not under Geneva protections.

I've heard this lame claim over and over again, and have asked the same question each time. I'll now ask it of you - who knows, you may be the one finally able to answer it!

What specific statute has been violated that would make this war "illegal"?

An added "bonus" question just for you, since you had a value-added phrase up there, is how does the conduct of this war invalidate the Geneva Conventions? I'm sure there are a few soldiers over there that would just LOVE to hear that they aren't bound by Geneva Conventions any more.

Of course, the enemy never HAS been bound by them, which seems a bit unfair.

But currently you are not serving the United States of America or her citizens. You are serving foreign interests and the city-state Washington D.C.'s corporate interests.

How very presumptuous of you, to think you can determine motivation for another, sight unseen.