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To those who have served ... you're not all heroes

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posted on Nov, 12 2009 @ 12:36 PM
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Originally posted by The-Hammer

Originally posted by Lurch
If you went to a "soccer" match in England and said that "America won world war 2 by herself!", "you'd be speaking German if it wasn't for us!" etc, I guarantee you wouldn't leave the stadium in one piece.



That's LAME by that logic...

Come to New York and go to Yankee stadium and spout the US came late to WWII and didn't contribute much.

See what happens.


Someone would vomit up in the 8th hotdog they'd eaten that day?

Or someone would slap me on the head with one of those big foam hands?

[edit on 12-11-2009 by Lurch]




posted on Nov, 12 2009 @ 12:36 PM
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reply to post by LiveForever8
 


Just read my other posts. Not negative. Just sensatibe about this subject maybe. I have friends from all walks of life. But you guys litterally almost called Hitler daddy, yet have no respect on our one day of remembance for guys who barely scrape buy serving their country, yet would help you out matter what.

And why attack Europeans?
Look who the op was.
It's rude and uncalled for. Have some couth!



posted on Nov, 12 2009 @ 12:38 PM
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Originally posted by NEWclearMind
reply to post by Lurch
 



First of all anyone that could fight, wouldn't be talking like you do. Second of all, you are a troll.


Haha, I'm the troll?

Who says American's don't do irony..?

Oh wait.

Btw, my dad is bigger than your dad.



posted on Nov, 12 2009 @ 12:40 PM
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Originally posted by NEWclearMind
reply to post by LiveForever8
 


Just read my other posts. Not negative. Just sensatibe about this subject maybe. I have friends from all walks of life. But you guys litterally almost called Hitler daddy, yet have no respect on our one day of remembance for guys who barely scrape buy serving their country, yet would help you out matter what.

And why attack Europeans?
Look who the op was.
It's rude and uncalled for. Have some couth!


Do you often use outrageous generalizations to make your points? Embarrassing.

Do some research and get back to me


Peace.



posted on Nov, 12 2009 @ 12:41 PM
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Originally posted by NEWclearMind
reply to post by LiveForever8
 


Just read my other posts. Not negative. Just sensatibe about this subject maybe. I have friends from all walks of life. But you guys litterally almost called Hitler daddy, yet have no respect on our one day of remembance for guys who barely scrape buy serving their country, yet would help you out matter what.

And why attack Europeans?
Look who the op was.
It's rude and uncalled for. Have some couth!


Read a history book [SNIP].

UK - fought alone against the Nazis for 2 years. Not one Nazi stepped foot on the British mainland in all that time.

The allies won WW2, not one particular country, it was a joint effort. To suggest otherwise is offensive and just plain wrong.

Also, your country wouldn't even exist were it not for your British overlords so please, show some respect.

Mod Edit: Removed insult. Please leave the name-calling at the door.

[edit on 12-11-2009 by Gemwolf]



posted on Nov, 12 2009 @ 12:42 PM
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Originally posted by Lurch
Someone would vomit up in the 8th hotdog they'd eaten that day?



Well he probably ate the 7th with his own teeth.



posted on Nov, 12 2009 @ 12:44 PM
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reply to post by Ulala
 




To those who have served ... you're not all heroes


I have really struggled with this because I wanted to reply to this subject but do so in a way that defined my position.

Soldiers do not have the luxury of picking where and when they fight. They give themselves to their countries, their homeland and then go where and when there is the call.

It is not the job for just anyone. The weak… the timid do not have a place here.

The subject of using the term ‘following orders’ is an old one. But at the same time, we should understand the plight of the soldier who chooses to disobey for any reason, in a battlefield situation.

I doubt that anyone who has not been in a combat situation could possibly understand what it is to be a soldier. Moreover, from my experience of being on both sides of this equation during the Vietnam era, I can tell you that those who would condemn a soldier for fighting are those you would least want at your side in a shooting gallery where your life was on the line.

It takes a lot of personal sacrifice to even make it as a soldier, much less survive in the modern battlefield environment. Who knows what YOU might do under this degree of stress.

If you were to wake one day with 7.62mm missiles zipping through your bedroom and lethal mortar rounds impacting at random places all around you… try factoring THAT in to your own ability to hold intact your particular moral center.

War is the sum of all human evil… but if not for those soldiers who have fought it and those who have died… you might well not be here to complain about them.

Okay… I’m done.




posted on Nov, 12 2009 @ 12:50 PM
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Originally posted by redoubt
reply to post by Ulala
 




To those who have served ... you're not all heroes


I have really struggled with this because I wanted to reply to this subject but do so in a way that defined my position.

Soldiers do not have the luxury of picking where and when they fight. They give themselves to their countries, their homeland and then go where and when there is the call.

It is not the job for just anyone. The weak… the timid do not have a place here.

The subject of using the term ‘following orders’ is an old one. But at the same time, we should understand the plight of the soldier who chooses to disobey for any reason, in a battlefield situation.

I doubt that anyone who has not been in a combat situation could possibly understand what it is to be a soldier. Moreover, from my experience of being on both sides of this equation during the Vietnam era, I can tell you that those who would condemn a soldier for fighting are those you would least want at your side in a shooting gallery where your life was on the line.

It takes a lot of personal sacrifice to even make it as a soldier, much less survive in the modern battlefield environment. Who knows what YOU might do under this degree of stress.

If you were to wake one day with 7.62mm missiles zipping through your bedroom and lethal mortar rounds impacting at random places all around you… try factoring THAT in to your own ability to hold intact your particular moral center.

War is the sum of all human evil… but if not for those soldiers who have fought it and those who have died… you might well not be here to complain about them.

Okay… I’m done.



1. You DO have a choice whether to fight or not. Nobody drugged you, put you on a plane to Iraq, put a gun in your hands and made you pull the trigger. Soldiers should disobey immoral orders. If you do not, you're just as bad as the Nazis who also "followed orders".

2. Nothing any allied soldier has done in Vietnam, Korea, Iraq or Afghanistan has in any way affected for the better the lives of people living in the United States, Britain, Canada etc etc. The freedoms we have existed long before those wars and would have existed with or without those wars taking place. We owe you nothing.



posted on Nov, 12 2009 @ 12:57 PM
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Originally posted by redoubt
reply to post by Ulala
 


"If you were to wake one day with 7.62mm missiles zipping through your bedroom and lethal mortar rounds impacting at random places all around you… try factoring THAT in to your own ability to hold intact your particular moral center."


Well, personally, If it was me I'd be thinking about getting the hell out, getting my family to safety, and, if it was too late, if they were already victims of the airstrike or attack, I might well consider strapping on some explosives and taking a few inglorious bastards with me.

I keep reading about how soldiers are justified, irrespective of the real cause, because of what they believe. Is that the same for a suicide bomber? Or someone planting a roadside device? Or a member of the taliban? How about the IRA - they got lots of Amrican support!
They are all acting on their beliefs, so are they all justified, or is it only American beliefs that are worthy?



posted on Nov, 12 2009 @ 12:58 PM
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reply to post by Lurch
 



So we stepped in to help you guys out. We figured we 'd take the training wheels off and let you try for a while on your own. Turns out you failed. In two years you were getting bombed like a Baghdad shopping market on allah's birthday. Oh, you are welcome by the way. We knew how well you did against us during the revolution and just figured you needed help. Plus, we were bored and ge and ford needed money.

And it's not embarrasing at all. It's quite funny. We'll sit At work tonight and read your posts. Guys will laugh as we make referrances to Harry potter loving brits.

It's funny. You still don't get it do you?
You can't paint it all with the same brush. Keep typing though. I laugh while you try to convince yourself you are smart.

It's great being the best. USA #1
everyone else wants to be us.
If they didn't they wouldn't be slamming us. Everyone tries to knock you down when you are on top.

Let me know if you would like to borrow my gun also. I have plenty.
I understand you guys aren't allowed to own them. I forgot the reason, either you couldn't aim, or your country took your rights.
Sorry, is that below the belt?



posted on Nov, 12 2009 @ 01:01 PM
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reply to post by Lurch
 





1. You DO have a choice whether to fight or not. Nobody drugged you, put you on a plane to Iraq, put a gun in your hands and made you pull the trigger. Soldiers should disobey immoral orders. If you do not, you're just as bad as the Nazis who also "followed orders".
2. Nothing any allied soldier has done in Vietnam, Korea, Iraq or Afghanistan has in any way affected for the better the lives of people living in the United States, Britain, Canada etc etc. The freedoms we have existed long before those wars and would have existed with or without those wars taking place. We owe you nothing.


Not going to walk into a pissing match over something I know first hand.

Combat situations are not video games where you can hit a 'reset' button' if you screw up.

Glad I didn't know you in combat. Hope no one ever has to.

PS - You don't owe me jack. In fact, you have my permission to... never mind. Don't want to be accused of a war crime here.



posted on Nov, 12 2009 @ 01:07 PM
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I want to re-iterate a post I made earlier because I don't think it really penetrated the minds of anyone who relentlessly keep posting.


Many of you have failed to recognize that it wasn't the OP's intent to participate in this thread. Has anyone noticed, or realized why the OP has remained silent? The OP wanted to start a "popular thread" and observe how his words were able to manipulate the respondents (i.e. YOU) into debate. His thread is getting tons of replies, and he's able to validate for himself the power of his apparent puppeteering skills. Look how easy it is to stir the masses and manipulate them by their own beliefs!!! This happens to you guys on a daily basis whether you are aware of it or not. Be it through the constant manipulation by mainstream media, or whether they are topics fabricated by people just wanting you see you dance and fight for your schemas, it is really pathetic to see how reactionary we have become as a civilization.

Think about it folks. You've been hung on the strings of the OP and are dancing according to his choosing. WAKE UP. If the OP can do this to you from posting just a few words, image what the MSM can do with the full power of media leveraged at their very whim. As far as I'm concerned, the OP developed one hell of an experiment here.



posted on Nov, 12 2009 @ 01:08 PM
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Originally posted by ARNETT 187
Ulala, I respect your opinion

now.....

respect mine......

YOU ARE AN IDIOT! Period!

We are doing the same thing now, except in a different country in a different part of the World! Do they want us there, the Iraqi's and the Afghanistani's, guess what I DO NOT CARE what they want. I will bring the fight to the enemy all day long, than to allow them access to my country again.

I love armchair quarterbacks dropping negativity on Americans, 95% of the people on this board haven't left the confines of their local country let alone stepped foot on soil in some god-forsaken war zone full of extremists who would cut your head off just because you do not praise Allah.

Keep talking zipperhead, it will be Americans and American money innovating and building infrastructure in this World while you Socialists in Europe grope around and try to figure out your own problems, while the rest of the planet goes straight into the crapper.

Whine, Whine, Whine, it's all you nancy Euro's are good for, well I take that back, your women are Okay, after all we expect women to whine anyway!

Have A Nice Day, enjoy the Freedom my grandfather, great uncle, father, step-father, 2 uncles a sister and myself fought to give you!

(I know what turns mister hand into mister fist!)




This is what gets me. So many of these tough talkers who keep invoking their Patriotism, Freedom, and all the little power words that seem to be parrotted over and over, while thumping their manly chests. You call the Iraqi's our enemies, and the Afghans our enemies and infer that these people were responsible for 9-11 or somehow they are storming our shores. You do realize that I believe 15 of they alledged hijackers were Saudi's right? And I think their was a Yemeni or 2. That's what makes alot of your fellow Patriotic Americans so upset at what is happening. Following Chain of Command does not excuse blind and willful ignorance. A true Patriot avenging the deaths of their countrymen would be going after those responsible. Not bomb some other country that had nothing to do it. Now if you guys were bombing Saudi into the stone age instead of their neighbors, maybe there wouldn't be so many people expressing their disappointment and suspiscion of the actions and motives of the military.
As a soldier, you also have the responsibility and right to refuse an order that is immoral or illegal.
10-20 years from now ALOT of American men and women are going to be looking at themselves in the mirror and will be having to accept what they did. Thousands if not hundreds of thousands of completely innocent people have been killed by OUR countrymen. These people had nothing to do with 9-11. Granted some of them might not have had a good opinion of America, but does that mean they should've been killed?
So many lives forever altered. So much potential for greatness snuffed out. And yet the country that brought up these alledged hijackers gets their a** spit shined by our leaders. Their representatives sit in OUR peoples White House have cigars with our former President (Bandahar Bush ring a bell?). Go after the real enemies responsible for 9-11!

BTW. We had a Marine here the other day that took a tire iron to a Greek Orthodox Priest. Presumably because he had a beard and an accent. Though the Marine said it was because it was a Gay Terrorist Priest. Then the news showed beefcake pics of the Steroidal, I mean HGH fueled Marine from a gayish website.
My dad was a Marine. I think he would be ashamed of what "The Few and The proud" is becoming.
Oooo-rah



posted on Nov, 12 2009 @ 01:08 PM
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Originally posted by Lurch

Originally posted by NEWclearMind
reply to post by Lurch
 



First of all anyone that could fight, wouldn't be talking like you do. Second of all, you are a troll.


Haha, I'm the troll?

Who says American's don't do irony..?

Oh wait.

Btw, my dad is bigger than your dad.


This is not at all on topic. Lurch and all who think like you seem to forget that the US was late to WW1, not 2. I doubt that you would be speaking German as others have suggested, but you would be a lot worse off. That, and Do the Europeans forget that we fought in the Far East as well? I think that quite a number of your grand fathers would remember, my grand father in law does, he is British by the way.

On the Korean and Vietnam war, Please remember that Europe asked us to assist in the containment of communism, world wide, not just in Europe, and the Korea as getting over being ravaged by Imperial Japan, and Vietnam was a French holding. Unlike some countries, the US seems to think that it is our place to stop foreign people from killing each other. Please bear in mind that in the war on terror, Terrorists are killing more of there own people then they are killing Allied Forces. Further more, if we did nothing we would be accused of sitting back and allowing the rest of the world to fall into chaos. As stated in my last post, The combined might to the US and Allied forces is a major deterrent to aggressive countries attacking other countries.



posted on Nov, 12 2009 @ 01:11 PM
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There are many people who believe soldiers are murderers. But this is not the case. A soldier is a warrior, and goes where the fight is. War is a mutual understanding between Warriors, the REASONS for the wars lay square on the shoulders of those who make policy, and the people who enable them.

If there should be scorn thrown in any direction, it should be at those who create wars, not those who fight them.



posted on Nov, 12 2009 @ 01:11 PM
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reply to post by EvolvedMinistry
 



I want to re-iterate a post I made earlier because I don't think it really penetrated the minds of anyone who relentlessly keep posting.


Many of you have failed to recognize that it wasn't the OP's intent to participate in this thread. Has anyone noticed, or realized why the OP has remained silent? As far as I'm concerned, the OP developed one hell of an experiment here.



reply to post by Ulala
 


As to not posting sufficiently speedily for some of you, that's merely down to timezone differences unfortunately. Nor have I sufficient time this morning to reply to each one of the brickbats slung in my direction (but I'll have a damned good attempt tonight).

And I'll be back after work to look at the whole thread rather than merely the last 3 pages.


[edit on 12-11-2009 by SLAYER69]



posted on Nov, 12 2009 @ 01:14 PM
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I apologize to the mods, but I have to do this once more because it is not having the desired effect.


I want to re-iterate a post I made earlier because I don't think it really penetrated the minds of anyone who relentlessly keep posting.


Many of you have failed to recognize that it wasn't the OP's intent to participate in this thread. Has anyone noticed, or realized why the OP has remained silent? The OP wanted to start a "popular thread" and observe how his words were able to manipulate the respondents (i.e. YOU) into debate. His thread is getting tons of replies, and he's able to validate for himself the power of his apparent puppeteering skills. Look how easy it is to stir the masses and manipulate them by their own beliefs!!! This happens to you guys on a daily basis whether you are aware of it or not. Be it through the constant manipulation by mainstream media, or whether they are topics fabricated by people just wanting you see you dance and fight for your schemas, it is really pathetic to see how reactionary we have become as a civilization.

Think about it folks. You've been hung on the strings of the OP and are dancing according to his choosing. WAKE UP. If the OP can do this to you from posting just a few words, image what the MSM can do with the full power of media leveraged at their very whim. As far as I'm concerned, the OP developed one hell of an experiment here.



posted on Nov, 12 2009 @ 01:15 PM
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reply to post by SLAYER69
 


This whole thread is a minefield, designed for a single purpose. I was a fool to walk into not expecting an ambush.

Take a stripe. I deserve it.



posted on Nov, 12 2009 @ 01:16 PM
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reply to post by SLAYER69
 



I hope he has fun at work tonight. I know it must ne hard sewing socks. Someone has to do it. What a hero! I think we should change veterans day for this fella.

Golly jee! ;p)



posted on Nov, 12 2009 @ 01:19 PM
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reply to post by Zosynspiracy
 


Seems like your family is full of men and one coward.

Second line.



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