For all that we waffle around and point the finger at the states, or at Russia, has anyone ever thought to take the time and ponder how Britain fits into the picture, while we are busy digging up things decades past?

I mean, to be frank, practically every major conflict and social eruption in the past century can be drawn back to the British Empires influence on less developed nations, and the void left during the subsequent collapse of said empire.

No offense to Gorby, but as a leader of a country, He didn't do so well. He basically caused his country to dissolve into pieces. I would be looking to that man for any strategic advice.

Well I am British, the old empire screwed up enough of the world and has enough blood on it hands. And to a certain degree we are still paying for those days now, I know my history well enough. Guess based on the comments made it's the US turn, good luck with that as history shows it does not work out too well in the end.

I agree there are some very dangerous parts of the world out there no question at all but you cant change the world long term with bullets and bombs.

The core of the post was a statement that this war cannot be won, I agree with that statement I also tried to provide objective but sharp statements and examples on the related topic. I have yet to see someone step up and explain how it can be won and that the cost in lives and monetary terms is worth it. Nor address any of my direct questions, so it is a bit pointless carrying on with it really as I won't get pulled into a mud slinging match.

A very large number of British people want our troops home, that will become a political chess pawn on the run up to the next election so we will see.. Also alot of people disagree with our deployment to the region full stop based on the WMD lies, we will be voting soon and Labour will be out partly because of that, just another nail in the coffin for them.

British interests (of the people) might be a bit different from what our government fronts at the moment, will be interesting to see if democracy does work.

Here is the reality. You can not militarily defeat a people who will not submit to outside rule or influence.

The Afghani people are tribal people who basically war amongst themselves and with anyone else who stumbles in to their land taking sides with one tribe or another.

Even before the invasion of Afghanistan the Taliban was fighting against the Northern Alliance.

Russians, Americans, Pakistanis, Iranians, each other and who ever, these are people who would rather die than give up their way of life.

They don't understand our concept of governance, or any other nation's or group's concept of governance.

They don't want to understand they aren't going to understand it.

It doesn't matter which pundit you listen too, whose propaganda you go by or what you try to give them or what you try to take away from them.

They are a fierce and independent people living on one of the wildest edges of the globe.

We haven't accomplished one thing there and we aren't going to accomplish one thing there except kill Afghanis and kill Americans and British Troops.

Gorbachev is right and a smart man. We just need to get out of there as fast as humanly possible and if Royal Dutch Shell wants to hire Black Water XE to guard the pipeline that they built and the Chinese want to chip in to have the copper mines they bought guarded too, well there are plenty of people in the world who have a gun and will travel for a paycheck.

The American taxpayer shouldn't be footing the bill. The only entity winning anything as usual is the Military Industrial Complex and the Oil Companies.

[edit on 12/11/09 by ProtoplasmicTraveler]

I say if WE throw a basketball into a brick wall, and it doesn't go RIGHT THROUGH...

then who are THEY to tell us that the basketball won't go THROUGH??

SCREW THEM!!!

Originally posted by pavil
No offense to Gorby, but as a leader of a country, He didn't do so well. He basically caused his country to dissolve into pieces. I would not be looking to that man for any strategic advice. Most of his high strategy failed miserably.