If hell is real, this is why it doesnt make sense.....

30"He who is not with me is against me, and he who does not gather with me scatters. 31And so I tell you, every sin and blasphemy will be forgiven men, but the blasphemy against the Spirit will not be forgiven. 32Anyone who speaks a word against the Son of Man will be forgiven, but anyone who speaks against the Holy Spirit will not be forgiven, either in this age or in the age to come.

reply to post by LuxFestinus



Yes,but how does one speak against the Holy Spirit?
I've never really understood that.

Oh geez,and I'm certainly NOT asking anyone to speak against in order to show me...as an example.That would be awful..so how am I supposed to understand what this even means?

I never claimed to be very good at interpreting the Bible

Do not act like I, the Lord, has randomly decided to crush the world at a random time.

I do not discount your friend's dream. I do discount anyone's interpretation that is directly and logically impossible.

God does sometimes impart certain dreams to people for various reasons. However, He cannot force someone to have the correct interpretation. So, allow me to take it upon myself to give you the correct interpretation for a dream you have barely described to me.

Already, many people in the world are experiencing this, but it is not widely understood or known because of peoples' undying selfishness and short-sightedness. It is not your sin that disgusts me nearly as much as it is your continued selfishness, your lack of respect, and your stubborn cold-heartedness that you claim is a strength.

Do not act like I, the Lord, has randomly decided to crush the world at a random time.

reply to post by TarzanBeta


All I can say is narcissistic much?

You also mentioned that you felt that YOU have a better chance of being saved,or truly saved than most-as if you are somehow more special than your peers,but if this were the case I would think that you would be less mocking and superior acting.

---

The wise man lets his heart overflow
but keeps silent his mouth.
O man, list to the voice of wisdom;
list to the voice of light.

reply to post by dominicus


I fully agree.And what about all the other religions that do live a good life, in that they are not sinning in anyway for example, buddhist monks, etc? I think that hell is just an alternative reality, that may just feel like a punishment, but it's a stage in the development of all souls and that all souls go through this dimension and it has become ingrained in our memories and twisted into a beleif that it was punishment...if this makes any sense?

reply to post by RobinB022



I think that it would mean to speak against the holy spirit and say you dont believe in it. Maybe someone who has better understanding would comment on it.

These are some really awesome passages on the Holy Spirit.

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John 1:33 (King James Version)

33And I knew him not: but he that sent me to baptize with water, the same said unto me, Upon whom thou shalt see the Spirit descending, and remaining on him, the same is he which baptizeth with the Holy Ghost.
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John 14:16 (King James Version)

16And I will pray the Father, and he shall give you another Comforter, that he may abide with you for ever;

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John 14:26 (King James Version)

26But the Comforter, which is the Holy Ghost, whom the Father will send in my name, he shall teach you all things, and bring all things to your remembrance, whatsoever I have said unto you.

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John 15:26 (King James Version)

26But when the Comforter is come, whom I will send unto you from the Father, even the Spirit of truth, which proceedeth from the Father, he shall testify of me:

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John 16:7 (King James Version)

7Nevertheless I tell you the truth; It is expedient for you that I go away: for if I go not away, the Comforter will not come unto you; but if I depart, I will send him unto you.

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Luke 11:13 (King James Version)

13If ye then, being evil, know how to give good gifts unto your children: how much more shall your heavenly Father give the Holy Spirit to them that ask him?
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Ephesians 1:13 (King James Version)

13In whom ye also trusted, after that ye heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation: in whom also after that ye believed, ye were sealed with that holy Spirit of promise,
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Hope I didnt over do it with the copy and paste.

reply to post by dominicus

This is when you need to stay in your studies and most important of all.....KEEP your personal alone meditation time every day with God. This is our time to be still and listen to what he tells us. Also, remember He did not leave us without help. He sent us The Holy Spirit to help teach and guide us.

We are never alone and need to keep company with friends who believe the same way as we will help strengthen each other in times of weakness.


Peace to you,
Grandma

reply to post by savagediver



I starred you for trying to help...but I'm still mostly confused about this.

Now also embarrassed.I get the comfort part,and all,but still don't know how,or if a person(mainly me) has ever spoken against ...and is the Holy Spirit the same as the Holy Ghost...


I don't think ATS is the place for this ...for me.. too personal.

reply to post by TarzanBeta


This is some of the love you posted tarzan:

Anyone with ANY experience at all reading the Bible knows that Hell is a borrowed word and doesn't actually mean a physical location but that it refers to Hades, which was the closest approximation in Greek to SHEOL which is Hebrew for "the grave". Sheol is man's inevitable destination. The grave, or more accurately, nothingness. Read Job and you'll learn why it is completely retarded for anyone to believe that God has created this crazy place, Hell
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Do you remember reading this?

Mark 12:29 (King James Version)

29And Jesus answered him, The first of all the commandments is, Hear, O Israel; The Lord our God is one Lord:
30And thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thy heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy mind, and with all thy strength: this is the first commandment
31And the second is like, namely this, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself. There is none other commandment greater than these.

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Is this the way you talk to yourself and show love? There are many with children and family members that have mental disabilities who find the term "retarded" used so carelessly very hurtful and repugnant. There are some people who have these disabilities who can read. Have you not thought how this may cause hurt?

Please consider that not all who believe in God and who try their best to follow Jesus have the superior intellect that you presume to have. Now , if you have made it with me this far then try and recollect passages such as these.

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Deuteronomy 32:22
For a fire is kindled in mine anger, and shall burn unto the lowest hell, and shall consume the earth with her increase, and set on fire the foundations of the mountains.


Mark 9:43 (King James Version)

43And if thy hand offend thee, cut it off: it is better for thee to enter into life maimed, than having two hands to go into hell, into the fire that never shall be quenched:


Matthew 13:42 (King James Version)

42And shall cast them into a furnace of fire: there shall be wailing and gnashing of teeth.


Matthew 5:22
But I say unto you, That whosoever is angry with his brother without a cause shall be in danger of the judgment: and whosoever shall say to his brother, Raca, shall be in danger of the council: but whosoever shall say, Thou fool, shall be in danger of hell fire.

James 3:6
And the tongue is a fire, a world of iniquity: so is the tongue among our members, that it defileth the whole body, and setteth on fire the course of nature; and it is set on fire of hell.

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Can you not see how some one without your wisdom may believe a little different?

If you truly think someone is wrong could it be possible to try and explain or teach in a more loving manner?


James 3:13
Who is a wise man and endued with knowledge among you? let him shew out of a good conversation his works with meekness of wisdom.


I feel we should show love to one another and be slow to anger.

reply to post by RobinB022


Understood , went on a little more than I normally would have.



[edit on 22-11-2009 by savagediver]

reply to post by savagediver



LOL~Very informative,but... are you implying that I am mentally impaired...

Well ok,don't answer that

reply to post by RobinB022


Not in the least. I am no one to judge anyones mental abilities. I have every reason to believe my own mental capabilities are very suspect

Back to the thread topic , it is my wish that we all could avoid hell , whatever it may be.

Here's my 2 pennies worth.

A lot of folks, when talking about God, Heaven, Hell, etc... pretty much say the same thing, "I believe....". That is part of the problem. Everyone feels "safe, cozy, warm and fuzzy" because, "I believe". They rely not on what the Bible teaches, but their own understanding.

It does not matter what "I believe" concerning God. It doesn't matter what "I believe" when discussing Heaven or Hell. It matters only in what is taught in the Bible.

I can believe that Hell is not real, it doesn't change the fact that it is real. I can believe God is too nice/sweet/loving/etc to judge me, it doesn't change what He did to Sodom and Gomorrah and the fact that He will judge me. I can believe that God doesn't exist, it doesn't change the fact that He does.

I can sprinkle dust, or rub crystals, or try to contact aliens to get myself to the next level of enlightenment or spiritual readiness, it doesn't change the fact that the Bible teaches one way - Jesus. I can worship trees, rocks, gemstones or frogs, it doesn't change the fact that I am to worship the Creator, not the created.

We don't know how God works, but He gave us the Bible to help us understand Him and to know Him. But keep in mind, if someone handed me a manual on nuclear fission, I would probably walk away from it not understanding a lot of it, but just because I didn't understand all of it I would never think to say, "I don't believe in nuclear fission" or "I believe that nuclear fission works like ....".


On other things mentioned..

For those who have said that they once were Christian, until they learned better, I submit that you never were truly Christian. As said in the Bible, if one departs from us, he was never truly one of us.

I do agree with the poster that said we need to read the Bible more.

As for the NDE car accident poster, I don't really know what to make of NDE's. But as for your "christian friend", did he not read the scripture when it talks of being drunk? So, what he is saying in essence is that he "died" while sinning and was surprised to go to Hell (as you were surprised by this Christian going to Hell)?

Christians do have a "free get out of jail card", Jesus. However, the "catch" is that we must repent and in order to repent, we must be truly sorry for our sins. This doesn't mean that we will no longer sin, for we are always at war against our "old man". Sins, temptations, failings .... we fall just as hard as anyone, though we strive to live according to God's will.

And yes, sadly there are many hypocrites in the church. But looking over the Bible, that isn't anything new. Jesus had a few words to say about such people.