If we simple minded men can see the wisdom of fitting the punishment to the crime, why can't the invisible sky being?
Sounds like he's either a sociopath or a myth.
Let the cries for me to repent begin, lol.
If hell is real, this is why it doesnt make sense....., page 3
privacy
reply posted on 12-11-2009 @ 12:33 AM by LeoVirgo
reply to post by WisdomSeeker
How do you know about this Satan?
From a book....or from experience?
From what I understand, your own experience of spirit coming into the flesh has a cause and effect reaction. Being in separate bodies, being different, naturally leads to pride and greed and selfishness.
Can you tell me one thing Satan has done to someone? Something that the person themselves doesnt have a reason of their environment that caused them to be the way they are or behave in a certain way.
I once had a person told me that they thought about cheating on their husband. They were told by the church that this was Satan tempting her and that she needed to come to God.
I asked her....was this not your own lust and desires getting the best over your spiritual self? Was this not your mind of flesh ruling over your mind of spirit? Is blaming Satan for this temptation helping you own up to your own fall to the ways of flesh? Is Satan not a scapegoat for people to not own up to their deepest ways of flesh that they acted on?
When I have acted in ways of flesh...that was my own experience of my self acting more for the love of flesh then of spirit. It wasnt anyone else trying to lead me in that way. I had to own up to my wrongs as my own and no one elses. It was the only way I could truly heal and learn from why I did what I did. Simple Psychology can usually explain why people do the things they do. There is no using Satan....because it helps people to face themselves to heal from it. Sometimes its just easier I guess to blame something else then to own up to it as your own.
Just thoughts
LV
How do you know about this Satan?
From a book....or from experience?
From what I understand, your own experience of spirit coming into the flesh has a cause and effect reaction. Being in separate bodies, being different, naturally leads to pride and greed and selfishness.
Can you tell me one thing Satan has done to someone? Something that the person themselves doesnt have a reason of their environment that caused them to be the way they are or behave in a certain way.
I once had a person told me that they thought about cheating on their husband. They were told by the church that this was Satan tempting her and that she needed to come to God.
I asked her....was this not your own lust and desires getting the best over your spiritual self? Was this not your mind of flesh ruling over your mind of spirit? Is blaming Satan for this temptation helping you own up to your own fall to the ways of flesh? Is Satan not a scapegoat for people to not own up to their deepest ways of flesh that they acted on?
When I have acted in ways of flesh...that was my own experience of my self acting more for the love of flesh then of spirit. It wasnt anyone else trying to lead me in that way. I had to own up to my wrongs as my own and no one elses. It was the only way I could truly heal and learn from why I did what I did. Simple Psychology can usually explain why people do the things they do. There is no using Satan....because it helps people to face themselves to heal from it. Sometimes its just easier I guess to blame something else then to own up to it as your own.
Just thoughts
LV
reply posted on 14-11-2009 @ 09:58 AM by dominicus
reply to post by kingofmd
I have a friend who's a Christian, hard core into it, and he was in a huge car wreck, had a near death experience, and went to Hell. This is a Christian man who went to hell. Before this he was 100% sure he was saved. So what do you have to say now?
Its simply impossible to live up to God's moral standards unless you lock yourself in cave, dont talk to anyone, and have complete control over all of your thoughts, actions, lusts, emotions, etc.
You see you are just repeating whats in the Bible, what preachers have told you. Just like my Christian friend was 100% sure he was saved from hell, and still went there. So how do you know
The good News: Jesus, God in the flesh, took the wrath of God on Himself for our sakes. So on our "court date" before God, the case will be dismissed because Jesus payed our fine for us. We simply have to repent and put our faith in what He did for us. Live your life for Him, and stay away from sin out of thanks for what He has done for you. That is unless you want to rely on your so called good works???
I have a friend who's a Christian, hard core into it, and he was in a huge car wreck, had a near death experience, and went to Hell. This is a Christian man who went to hell. Before this he was 100% sure he was saved. So what do you have to say now?
Its simply impossible to live up to God's moral standards unless you lock yourself in cave, dont talk to anyone, and have complete control over all of your thoughts, actions, lusts, emotions, etc.
You see you are just repeating whats in the Bible, what preachers have told you. Just like my Christian friend was 100% sure he was saved from hell, and still went there. So how do you know
reply posted on 14-11-2009 @ 10:54 AM by TarzanBeta
reply to post by Epsillion70
This poster, Epsillion70, is the closest to the true reality of all the posters on the first page. I didn't read any further, so I apologize if anyone else has said this EXACT thing I am about to say.
Somehow I am figuring that Epsillion70 is not a Christian, I don't know, it could be the hint of sarcasm in the post, but You've won the prize for being closest to God's reality.
How is this possible? Is it possible that another poster's take on gentile conscience is proven here and now? Interesting...
Epsillion70, you have proven that logic can be combined with passion.
NOWHERE IN THE BIBLE does it EVER say that HELL is a PLACE where SATAN rules and bad people go there and suffer forever. I dare anyone to find where it says that. Remember, don't take anything out of context, actually learn to read.
Anyone with ANY experience at all reading the Bible knows that Hell is a borrowed word and doesn't actually mean a physical location but that it refers to Hades, which was the closest approximation in Greek to SHEOL which is Hebrew for "the grave". Sheol is man's inevitable destination. The grave, or more accurately, nothingness. Read Job and you'll learn why it is completely retarded for anyone to believe that God has created this crazy place, Hell.
This is the one topic that keeps popping up that I'm so surprised to see because it is simply a JOKE! And what is crazier, is that SELF PROCLAIMED CHRISTIANS ARE ACTUALLY DEFENDING THIS IDEA. Wow. Read the Bible much? Or listening to your money-laundering sheep-herders?
You are correct Epsillion70. Christianity is not exempt from the secular abuse and people will milk it, just like EVERY concept on this planet, for all the money and fame it's worth. But just because Christianity is itself a real world concept that can be manipulated and taken advantage of by lousy humans does not mean that it is, in itself, incorrect. Christianity is very correct.
I would have to republish the entire Bible for you all to understand your utterly complete and selfish ignorance. Everyone wants to make a statement, but no one wants to TRULY make sure of what they're saying. The cool thing is that some people don't even have to research to know that what is being passed around is bullcrap. It would seem that Epsillion70 has done a good job laying down the truth of reality in one logical, compassionate post. And all of you tried to justify the drama. Whatever. The gentile is more right about reality than self-proclaimed Christians -- AND you guys wonder why Christianity gets bashed so much? The concept as you guys portray it completely DESERVES to get bashed!
I'm a Christian and I'm arguing against Christians. This, my friends, is stupid.
This poster, Epsillion70, is the closest to the true reality of all the posters on the first page. I didn't read any further, so I apologize if anyone else has said this EXACT thing I am about to say.
Somehow I am figuring that Epsillion70 is not a Christian, I don't know, it could be the hint of sarcasm in the post, but You've won the prize for being closest to God's reality.
How is this possible? Is it possible that another poster's take on gentile conscience is proven here and now? Interesting...
Epsillion70, you have proven that logic can be combined with passion.
NOWHERE IN THE BIBLE does it EVER say that HELL is a PLACE where SATAN rules and bad people go there and suffer forever. I dare anyone to find where it says that. Remember, don't take anything out of context, actually learn to read.
Anyone with ANY experience at all reading the Bible knows that Hell is a borrowed word and doesn't actually mean a physical location but that it refers to Hades, which was the closest approximation in Greek to SHEOL which is Hebrew for "the grave". Sheol is man's inevitable destination. The grave, or more accurately, nothingness. Read Job and you'll learn why it is completely retarded for anyone to believe that God has created this crazy place, Hell.
This is the one topic that keeps popping up that I'm so surprised to see because it is simply a JOKE! And what is crazier, is that SELF PROCLAIMED CHRISTIANS ARE ACTUALLY DEFENDING THIS IDEA. Wow. Read the Bible much? Or listening to your money-laundering sheep-herders?
You are correct Epsillion70. Christianity is not exempt from the secular abuse and people will milk it, just like EVERY concept on this planet, for all the money and fame it's worth. But just because Christianity is itself a real world concept that can be manipulated and taken advantage of by lousy humans does not mean that it is, in itself, incorrect. Christianity is very correct.
I would have to republish the entire Bible for you all to understand your utterly complete and selfish ignorance. Everyone wants to make a statement, but no one wants to TRULY make sure of what they're saying. The cool thing is that some people don't even have to research to know that what is being passed around is bullcrap. It would seem that Epsillion70 has done a good job laying down the truth of reality in one logical, compassionate post. And all of you tried to justify the drama. Whatever. The gentile is more right about reality than self-proclaimed Christians -- AND you guys wonder why Christianity gets bashed so much? The concept as you guys portray it completely DESERVES to get bashed!
I'm a Christian and I'm arguing against Christians. This, my friends, is stupid.
reply posted on 14-11-2009 @ 11:29 AM by TarzanBeta
reply to post by dominicus
Your friend had what we like to call a "dream". The mind does manifest pretty spooky things when it tries to mesh the spiritual world with the physical reality. Just because your friend had what is called an "NDE" (which tens of thousands of people have everyday) does not mean that he went to a physical locality called Hell. In fact, since it was in his head, that means he DID NOT GO TO THE PHYSICAL LOCALITY CALLED HELL. Ask the physicians where he was and they'll tell you.
I do not discount your friend's dream. I do discount anyone's interpretation that is directly and logically impossible. You cannot claim you are saved, and then go to "hell" and then turn around and say you are not saved, but this strange mythical Hell DOES in fact exist. This, my friend, is a huge mental mistake.
God does sometimes impart certain dreams to people for various reasons. However, He cannot force someone to have the correct interpretation. So, allow me to take it upon myself to give you the correct interpretation for a dream you have barely described to me.
What your friend experienced is a culmination of the current state of the world today combined with his minimal understanding of what the spiritual world actually is combined with God's intent to send a message to people. Oftentimes, the messenger has NO understanding of the message he/she is sending. Here is the message :
What you perceive to be a pagan Hell is in fact the state of the real world in the near future. Everyone who is physically alive will experience this realm. Understand this challenge now before it happens that you may not say that you were not warned. Do not act like I, the Lord, has randomly decided to crush the world at a random time. I do what I have always done, with cause, and I always reveal to you the mystery before the event. It is up to you to realize how you have contributed to the state of the world that is soon to come. Only then can you actually feel remorse for your thoughts and actions. No, you are not perfect, and you can never become perfect by any thing that you do. It is I who will perfect those that I choose and I choose justly. The state in between death and consciousness that you reside in now as you experience this dream is what most people will be experiencing. Already, many people in the world are experiencing this, but it is not widely understood or known because of peoples' undying selfishness and short-sightedness. It is not your sin that disgusts me nearly as much as it is your continued selfishness, your lack of respect, and your stubborn cold-heartedness that you claim is a strength. Well, I, the Lord, have made your stubborn cold-heartedness your weakness in that everything that you believe to be an immunity will soon be your destruction. I am the Lord. I give and take when I please. You are not in control. You cannot control whether you are in the world or out of it. You cannot control whether you are alive or dead. You cannot control whether your Hell exists or not. You control nothing. You can only make choices and you continue to fail. I put options before you every iota of a second of every day and you constantly make the wrong choices. Even more than that, your remorse, if you have any, is only that you suffered worldly consequences that interfere with your comfort and well-being. Do you have remorse that you constantly disrespect me, your Lord, who continually gives to those who do not deserve and continually takes from those who are a little more deserving? Do you not see the fairness in my actions? No, and thus the state of the world that I have revealed to you that is soon to come. I sent a Messenger to you. My messenger has told you that I would baptize by fire, and that I will. For those who were baptized by water, how many were truly washed? None, not unless I allowed it! And you, NO ONE knows who they are. Even now, my messenger who is self proclaimed and claims NO spiritual divination through this message, does not know if I have made him clean or not. --(Speaking for myself, Atleast I do not claim to be better or more clean. I also make no claim that God is actually speaking through me, but only that this is what I understand God's message to be based on the truth of His Word. All of this has been said before in different words in the Bible. I also speak for myself by saying that I AM more deserving of a righteous washing than many people, but that I admit that makes me no more of a candidate for the washing than Stalin himself.)
Your friend's dream is a reality. But, when you're dead, you're dead. You don't suffer, nor do you experience joy. You experience nothing. Can't fathom it? That's because God has placed LIFE into our hearts, not death. We cannot interpret or contemplate something which is not in our hearts. But, that does not mean that we will not experience it.
We are supposed to do good because we BELIEVE IN GOOD. Not because it will "get us to Heaven" (which I'm still not entirely sure that is exactly the purpose God has planned for every person that is saved from everlasting nothingness.) or because it will put us on HIS GOOD SIDE.
NO, God wants us to be Good because we Love Good. We should Love our God because it is GOOD to love God, especially since God is good. We should love our brothers and sisters and neighbors because that is GOOD. Not because they've done something for us, or we agree with them, or what-have-you. We do Good because we are doers of Good. If you are not a doer of Good for the very sake of Good, then you are doing a greater evil than someone who proclaims to do evil because you are a blemish on peoples' perception of light.
I could go on forever. Like I said, I would have to republish the entire Bible for people to actually GET IT, but it's much easier if people would actually read it.
I know I don't "quote" verses by book, chapter, verse like a lot of people do. The reason for this is because it takes the WHOLE BOOK out of context. You have to read it. I am not against offering references, but I understand that people will only read what they want to read anyway. Anyone who has read and understands minimally what the Bible says will know that I am telling the truth. The truth is evidence of itself.
Your friend had what we like to call a "dream". The mind does manifest pretty spooky things when it tries to mesh the spiritual world with the physical reality. Just because your friend had what is called an "NDE" (which tens of thousands of people have everyday) does not mean that he went to a physical locality called Hell. In fact, since it was in his head, that means he DID NOT GO TO THE PHYSICAL LOCALITY CALLED HELL. Ask the physicians where he was and they'll tell you.
I do not discount your friend's dream. I do discount anyone's interpretation that is directly and logically impossible. You cannot claim you are saved, and then go to "hell" and then turn around and say you are not saved, but this strange mythical Hell DOES in fact exist. This, my friend, is a huge mental mistake.
God does sometimes impart certain dreams to people for various reasons. However, He cannot force someone to have the correct interpretation. So, allow me to take it upon myself to give you the correct interpretation for a dream you have barely described to me.
What your friend experienced is a culmination of the current state of the world today combined with his minimal understanding of what the spiritual world actually is combined with God's intent to send a message to people. Oftentimes, the messenger has NO understanding of the message he/she is sending. Here is the message :
What you perceive to be a pagan Hell is in fact the state of the real world in the near future. Everyone who is physically alive will experience this realm. Understand this challenge now before it happens that you may not say that you were not warned. Do not act like I, the Lord, has randomly decided to crush the world at a random time. I do what I have always done, with cause, and I always reveal to you the mystery before the event. It is up to you to realize how you have contributed to the state of the world that is soon to come. Only then can you actually feel remorse for your thoughts and actions. No, you are not perfect, and you can never become perfect by any thing that you do. It is I who will perfect those that I choose and I choose justly. The state in between death and consciousness that you reside in now as you experience this dream is what most people will be experiencing. Already, many people in the world are experiencing this, but it is not widely understood or known because of peoples' undying selfishness and short-sightedness. It is not your sin that disgusts me nearly as much as it is your continued selfishness, your lack of respect, and your stubborn cold-heartedness that you claim is a strength. Well, I, the Lord, have made your stubborn cold-heartedness your weakness in that everything that you believe to be an immunity will soon be your destruction. I am the Lord. I give and take when I please. You are not in control. You cannot control whether you are in the world or out of it. You cannot control whether you are alive or dead. You cannot control whether your Hell exists or not. You control nothing. You can only make choices and you continue to fail. I put options before you every iota of a second of every day and you constantly make the wrong choices. Even more than that, your remorse, if you have any, is only that you suffered worldly consequences that interfere with your comfort and well-being. Do you have remorse that you constantly disrespect me, your Lord, who continually gives to those who do not deserve and continually takes from those who are a little more deserving? Do you not see the fairness in my actions? No, and thus the state of the world that I have revealed to you that is soon to come. I sent a Messenger to you. My messenger has told you that I would baptize by fire, and that I will. For those who were baptized by water, how many were truly washed? None, not unless I allowed it! And you, NO ONE knows who they are. Even now, my messenger who is self proclaimed and claims NO spiritual divination through this message, does not know if I have made him clean or not. --(Speaking for myself, Atleast I do not claim to be better or more clean. I also make no claim that God is actually speaking through me, but only that this is what I understand God's message to be based on the truth of His Word. All of this has been said before in different words in the Bible. I also speak for myself by saying that I AM more deserving of a righteous washing than many people, but that I admit that makes me no more of a candidate for the washing than Stalin himself.)
Your friend's dream is a reality. But, when you're dead, you're dead. You don't suffer, nor do you experience joy. You experience nothing. Can't fathom it? That's because God has placed LIFE into our hearts, not death. We cannot interpret or contemplate something which is not in our hearts. But, that does not mean that we will not experience it.
We are supposed to do good because we BELIEVE IN GOOD. Not because it will "get us to Heaven" (which I'm still not entirely sure that is exactly the purpose God has planned for every person that is saved from everlasting nothingness.) or because it will put us on HIS GOOD SIDE.
NO, God wants us to be Good because we Love Good. We should Love our God because it is GOOD to love God, especially since God is good. We should love our brothers and sisters and neighbors because that is GOOD. Not because they've done something for us, or we agree with them, or what-have-you. We do Good because we are doers of Good. If you are not a doer of Good for the very sake of Good, then you are doing a greater evil than someone who proclaims to do evil because you are a blemish on peoples' perception of light.
I could go on forever. Like I said, I would have to republish the entire Bible for people to actually GET IT, but it's much easier if people would actually read it.
I know I don't "quote" verses by book, chapter, verse like a lot of people do. The reason for this is because it takes the WHOLE BOOK out of context. You have to read it. I am not against offering references, but I understand that people will only read what they want to read anyway. Anyone who has read and understands minimally what the Bible says will know that I am telling the truth. The truth is evidence of itself.
reply posted on 14-11-2009 @ 12:16 PM by TarzanBeta
reply to post by oliveoil
The only Bible.
The Lake of Hell is reserved for Satan, the fallen, and the unrighteous. The Lake of Hell is the second death. It is not a place of eternal suffering, once again, but it is an everlasting destruction.
It is better to go to the grave with less a limb because it doesn't matter how many limbs you have in the grave.
Secondly, the soul is defined in the Bible as flesh and blood itself. "All living souls" ring a bell? Doesn't just refer to humans.
The spiritual body is the body that God blesses THOSE WHOM HE CHOOSES with for the Ever-after. A spiritual and indestructible body.
Just to point out what that means, refer to where Jesus tells Thomas to go ahead and stick his fingers in the holes leftover from his torturous death. That was a physical body, manifested from a spiritual incarnation.
Once again, refer to Job, then read those references you provided over again and decide for yourself if you're -trying- to believe something or if you really do believe something. Regardless, the truth speaks for itself.
The only Bible.
The Lake of Hell is reserved for Satan, the fallen, and the unrighteous. The Lake of Hell is the second death. It is not a place of eternal suffering, once again, but it is an everlasting destruction.
It is better to go to the grave with less a limb because it doesn't matter how many limbs you have in the grave.
Secondly, the soul is defined in the Bible as flesh and blood itself. "All living souls" ring a bell? Doesn't just refer to humans.
The spiritual body is the body that God blesses THOSE WHOM HE CHOOSES with for the Ever-after. A spiritual and indestructible body.
Just to point out what that means, refer to where Jesus tells Thomas to go ahead and stick his fingers in the holes leftover from his torturous death. That was a physical body, manifested from a spiritual incarnation.
Once again, refer to Job, then read those references you provided over again and decide for yourself if you're -trying- to believe something or if you really do believe something. Regardless, the truth speaks for itself.
What if all the major religions started out with the same story and it slowly diverged from there
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