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If hell is real, this is why it doesnt make sense.....

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posted on Nov, 11 2009 @ 07:55 PM
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The idea of hell is absurd for one small simple reason: it is unbearable, unfathomable torture that will never EVER NEVER EVER EVER end.

If we simple minded men can see the wisdom of fitting the punishment to the crime, why can't the invisible sky being?

Sounds like he's either a sociopath or a myth.

Let the cries for me to repent begin, lol.




posted on Nov, 11 2009 @ 10:04 PM
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Earth is HELL! It is inhabited by a malevolent spiritual entity that we know as Satan. This entity may or may not be of extra-terrestrial origin as opposed to being a former prime angel of GOD. Satan´s strength is the ability to tempt us and keep us from developing into a higher spiritual being.

When we die, we re-incarnate into another physical garment. Ascended Masters, who are spiritual beings, including angels, have ascended to this higher realm(Heaven). If we do not become enlightened enough in this life, we will come back in another incarnation, thus being away from "GOD" spiritually for another lifetime. Sure seems like Hell to me.

I do not believe in an eternal realm of condemnation where my eternal soul suffers. MY God is a being of pure light, life and love. God is not capable of creating something and later destroying it. I was a perfect creation, as were all of you and our goal in our many lifetimes is to become enlightened and spiritually awake to the universal truth and finally ascend and join our brothers and sisters before us.



posted on Nov, 12 2009 @ 12:33 AM
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reply to post by WisdomSeeker
 


How do you know about this Satan?

From a book....or from experience?

From what I understand, your own experience of spirit coming into the flesh has a cause and effect reaction. Being in separate bodies, being different, naturally leads to pride and greed and selfishness.

Can you tell me one thing Satan has done to someone? Something that the person themselves doesnt have a reason of their environment that caused them to be the way they are or behave in a certain way.

I once had a person told me that they thought about cheating on their husband. They were told by the church that this was Satan tempting her and that she needed to come to God.

I asked her....was this not your own lust and desires getting the best over your spiritual self? Was this not your mind of flesh ruling over your mind of spirit? Is blaming Satan for this temptation helping you own up to your own fall to the ways of flesh? Is Satan not a scapegoat for people to not own up to their deepest ways of flesh that they acted on?

When I have acted in ways of flesh...that was my own experience of my self acting more for the love of flesh then of spirit. It wasnt anyone else trying to lead me in that way. I had to own up to my wrongs as my own and no one elses. It was the only way I could truly heal and learn from why I did what I did. Simple Psychology can usually explain why people do the things they do. There is no using Satan....because it helps people to face themselves to heal from it. Sometimes its just easier I guess to blame something else then to own up to it as your own.

Just thoughts
LV



posted on Nov, 12 2009 @ 05:10 AM
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I agree, I've also asked preachers etc, about this. The best aswer I got was "Its all God's plan" which doesnt really answer the question in the first place.

Some things of God are just not ment to be understood by man, and yeah, it makes me as angry as the next guy.



posted on Nov, 13 2009 @ 10:00 PM
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You lie to a stranger
You lie to your children
You lie to your spouse
You lie to your employer
You lie to the governement

Are there varying degrees of consequences depending on who you lie to? The answer is YES. They vary from carrying no consequence at all, bitterness, reprimand, to having to go to jail. The difference is to whom you've transgressed, and their level of authority.

With that concept in mind, what do you suppose the consequence should be if you sin against the Perfect, Holy, Creator of all things in existance (the One that placed govt. in control)? A slap on the wrist? I think what a lot of you are missing is that sin is verticle, not horizontal. Whenever we lie, steal, lust, blaspheme, murder, etc., it is against God, and we are simply stockpiling offenses. How many times have you lied, stolen, lusted, coveted, hated...? If it's more than 0, you have already failed the moral perfection standard that God has.

The good News:
Jesus, God in the flesh, took the wrath of God on Himself for our sakes. So on our "court date" before God, the case will be dismissed because Jesus payed our fine for us. We simply have to repent and put our faith in what He did for us. Live your life for Him, and stay away from sin out of thanks for what He has done for you. That is unless you want to rely on your so called good works???




posted on Nov, 14 2009 @ 02:09 AM
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Every religion believes they have EXCLUSIVE access to Heaven .

Reality is , God has mansions in Heaven for every religion ,

... pre-requisite being belief in God , acceptance of the Prophets ,

and a life lead free from major sin . \

Confession of sin to God , then repentance , leads to redemption ,

and entry to your personal mansion .

..... notable exceptions being , suicide bombers , and others who

claim divine guidance , and embarass God with their conduct



... hell is there , dark ,hot , eternal . Don't leave it to the last

minute to believe in God . !

Heaven is unimaginably fantastic


[edit on 14-11-2009 by radarloveguy]



posted on Nov, 14 2009 @ 09:58 AM
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reply to post by kingofmd
 



The good News: Jesus, God in the flesh, took the wrath of God on Himself for our sakes. So on our "court date" before God, the case will be dismissed because Jesus payed our fine for us. We simply have to repent and put our faith in what He did for us. Live your life for Him, and stay away from sin out of thanks for what He has done for you. That is unless you want to rely on your so called good works???

I have a friend who's a Christian, hard core into it, and he was in a huge car wreck, had a near death experience, and went to Hell. This is a Christian man who went to hell. Before this he was 100% sure he was saved. So what do you have to say now?

Its simply impossible to live up to God's moral standards unless you lock yourself in cave, dont talk to anyone, and have complete control over all of your thoughts, actions, lusts, emotions, etc.

You see you are just repeating whats in the Bible, what preachers have told you. Just like my Christian friend was 100% sure he was saved from hell, and still went there. So how do you know



posted on Nov, 14 2009 @ 10:54 AM
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reply to post by Epsillion70
 



This poster, Epsillion70, is the closest to the true reality of all the posters on the first page. I didn't read any further, so I apologize if anyone else has said this EXACT thing I am about to say.

Somehow I am figuring that Epsillion70 is not a Christian, I don't know, it could be the hint of sarcasm in the post, but You've won the prize for being closest to God's reality.

How is this possible? Is it possible that another poster's take on gentile conscience is proven here and now? Interesting...

Epsillion70, you have proven that logic can be combined with passion.

NOWHERE IN THE BIBLE does it EVER say that HELL is a PLACE where SATAN rules and bad people go there and suffer forever. I dare anyone to find where it says that. Remember, don't take anything out of context, actually learn to read.

Anyone with ANY experience at all reading the Bible knows that Hell is a borrowed word and doesn't actually mean a physical location but that it refers to Hades, which was the closest approximation in Greek to SHEOL which is Hebrew for "the grave". Sheol is man's inevitable destination. The grave, or more accurately, nothingness. Read Job and you'll learn why it is completely retarded for anyone to believe that God has created this crazy place, Hell.

This is the one topic that keeps popping up that I'm so surprised to see because it is simply a JOKE! And what is crazier, is that SELF PROCLAIMED CHRISTIANS ARE ACTUALLY DEFENDING THIS IDEA. Wow. Read the Bible much? Or listening to your money-laundering sheep-herders?

You are correct Epsillion70. Christianity is not exempt from the secular abuse and people will milk it, just like EVERY concept on this planet, for all the money and fame it's worth. But just because Christianity is itself a real world concept that can be manipulated and taken advantage of by lousy humans does not mean that it is, in itself, incorrect. Christianity is very correct.

I would have to republish the entire Bible for you all to understand your utterly complete and selfish ignorance. Everyone wants to make a statement, but no one wants to TRULY make sure of what they're saying. The cool thing is that some people don't even have to research to know that what is being passed around is bullcrap. It would seem that Epsillion70 has done a good job laying down the truth of reality in one logical, compassionate post. And all of you tried to justify the drama. Whatever. The gentile is more right about reality than self-proclaimed Christians -- AND you guys wonder why Christianity gets bashed so much? The concept as you guys portray it completely DESERVES to get bashed!

I'm a Christian and I'm arguing against Christians. This, my friends, is stupid.



posted on Nov, 14 2009 @ 11:29 AM
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reply to post by dominicus
 


Your friend had what we like to call a "dream". The mind does manifest pretty spooky things when it tries to mesh the spiritual world with the physical reality. Just because your friend had what is called an "NDE" (which tens of thousands of people have everyday) does not mean that he went to a physical locality called Hell. In fact, since it was in his head, that means he DID NOT GO TO THE PHYSICAL LOCALITY CALLED HELL. Ask the physicians where he was and they'll tell you.

I do not discount your friend's dream. I do discount anyone's interpretation that is directly and logically impossible. You cannot claim you are saved, and then go to "hell" and then turn around and say you are not saved, but this strange mythical Hell DOES in fact exist. This, my friend, is a huge mental mistake.

God does sometimes impart certain dreams to people for various reasons. However, He cannot force someone to have the correct interpretation. So, allow me to take it upon myself to give you the correct interpretation for a dream you have barely described to me.

What your friend experienced is a culmination of the current state of the world today combined with his minimal understanding of what the spiritual world actually is combined with God's intent to send a message to people. Oftentimes, the messenger has NO understanding of the message he/she is sending. Here is the message :

What you perceive to be a pagan Hell is in fact the state of the real world in the near future. Everyone who is physically alive will experience this realm. Understand this challenge now before it happens that you may not say that you were not warned. Do not act like I, the Lord, has randomly decided to crush the world at a random time. I do what I have always done, with cause, and I always reveal to you the mystery before the event. It is up to you to realize how you have contributed to the state of the world that is soon to come. Only then can you actually feel remorse for your thoughts and actions. No, you are not perfect, and you can never become perfect by any thing that you do. It is I who will perfect those that I choose and I choose justly. The state in between death and consciousness that you reside in now as you experience this dream is what most people will be experiencing. Already, many people in the world are experiencing this, but it is not widely understood or known because of peoples' undying selfishness and short-sightedness. It is not your sin that disgusts me nearly as much as it is your continued selfishness, your lack of respect, and your stubborn cold-heartedness that you claim is a strength. Well, I, the Lord, have made your stubborn cold-heartedness your weakness in that everything that you believe to be an immunity will soon be your destruction. I am the Lord. I give and take when I please. You are not in control. You cannot control whether you are in the world or out of it. You cannot control whether you are alive or dead. You cannot control whether your Hell exists or not. You control nothing. You can only make choices and you continue to fail. I put options before you every iota of a second of every day and you constantly make the wrong choices. Even more than that, your remorse, if you have any, is only that you suffered worldly consequences that interfere with your comfort and well-being. Do you have remorse that you constantly disrespect me, your Lord, who continually gives to those who do not deserve and continually takes from those who are a little more deserving? Do you not see the fairness in my actions? No, and thus the state of the world that I have revealed to you that is soon to come. I sent a Messenger to you. My messenger has told you that I would baptize by fire, and that I will. For those who were baptized by water, how many were truly washed? None, not unless I allowed it! And you, NO ONE knows who they are. Even now, my messenger who is self proclaimed and claims NO spiritual divination through this message, does not know if I have made him clean or not. --(Speaking for myself, Atleast I do not claim to be better or more clean. I also make no claim that God is actually speaking through me, but only that this is what I understand God's message to be based on the truth of His Word. All of this has been said before in different words in the Bible. I also speak for myself by saying that I AM more deserving of a righteous washing than many people, but that I admit that makes me no more of a candidate for the washing than Stalin himself.)

Your friend's dream is a reality. But, when you're dead, you're dead. You don't suffer, nor do you experience joy. You experience nothing. Can't fathom it? That's because God has placed LIFE into our hearts, not death. We cannot interpret or contemplate something which is not in our hearts. But, that does not mean that we will not experience it.

We are supposed to do good because we BELIEVE IN GOOD. Not because it will "get us to Heaven" (which I'm still not entirely sure that is exactly the purpose God has planned for every person that is saved from everlasting nothingness.) or because it will put us on HIS GOOD SIDE.

NO, God wants us to be Good because we Love Good. We should Love our God because it is GOOD to love God, especially since God is good. We should love our brothers and sisters and neighbors because that is GOOD. Not because they've done something for us, or we agree with them, or what-have-you. We do Good because we are doers of Good. If you are not a doer of Good for the very sake of Good, then you are doing a greater evil than someone who proclaims to do evil because you are a blemish on peoples' perception of light.

I could go on forever. Like I said, I would have to republish the entire Bible for people to actually GET IT, but it's much easier if people would actually read it.

I know I don't "quote" verses by book, chapter, verse like a lot of people do. The reason for this is because it takes the WHOLE BOOK out of context. You have to read it. I am not against offering references, but I understand that people will only read what they want to read anyway. Anyone who has read and understands minimally what the Bible says will know that I am telling the truth. The truth is evidence of itself.



posted on Nov, 14 2009 @ 12:01 PM
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Originally posted by TarzanBeta



NOWHERE IN THE BIBLE does it EVER say that HELL is a PLACE where SATAN rules and bad people go there and suffer forever. I dare anyone to find where it says that. Remember, don't take anything out of context, actually learn to read.
Anyone with ANY experience at all reading the Bible knows that Hell is a borrowed word and doesn't actually mean a physical location but that it refers to Hades, which was the closest approximation in Greek to SHEOL which is Hebrew for "the grave". Sheol is man's inevitable destination. The grave, or more accurately, nothingness. Read Job and you'll learn why it is completely retarded for anyone to believe that God has created this crazy place, Hell.


there is a clear difference between the grave and hell.

There is no fire in the grave, but there is fire in "hell" (Luk. 16:23; Deu. 32:22; Mat. 5:22; 18:9; Jam. 3:6).

No one prays from the grave, but they do in Hell (Luk. 16:24; Jon. 2:2).

Hell was originally made for the Devil and his angels (Mat. 25:41), but the grave was not.

a saved soul does not go to the grave at death (Phi. 1:21-23; 2 Cor. 5:1-10; 1 Ths. 5:10). Only the body goes to the grave

. An unsaved man's body also goes to the grave at death, but his soul goes to a place of torment and flames (Luk. 16:22-23).

The grave cannot possibly be Hell because Jesus said it would be better to enter into life (eternal life) without a hand, a foot, or an eye, than to go to Hell (Mat. 18:8-9). How could it be "better" if Hell is only the grave where there is no suffering at all? According to Jesus Christ, Hell is a lot worst than losing a hand, a foot, or an eye forever.

What Bible are you reading?



posted on Nov, 14 2009 @ 12:16 PM
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reply to post by oliveoil
 


The only Bible.

The Lake of Hell is reserved for Satan, the fallen, and the unrighteous. The Lake of Hell is the second death. It is not a place of eternal suffering, once again, but it is an everlasting destruction.

It is better to go to the grave with less a limb because it doesn't matter how many limbs you have in the grave.

Secondly, the soul is defined in the Bible as flesh and blood itself. "All living souls" ring a bell? Doesn't just refer to humans.

The spiritual body is the body that God blesses THOSE WHOM HE CHOOSES with for the Ever-after. A spiritual and indestructible body.

Just to point out what that means, refer to where Jesus tells Thomas to go ahead and stick his fingers in the holes leftover from his torturous death. That was a physical body, manifested from a spiritual incarnation.

Once again, refer to Job, then read those references you provided over again and decide for yourself if you're -trying- to believe something or if you really do believe something. Regardless, the truth speaks for itself.



posted on Nov, 14 2009 @ 12:43 PM
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The Lake of Hell is reserved for Satan, the fallen, and the unrighteous. The Lake of Hell is the second death. It is not a place of eternal suffering, once again, but it is an everlasting destruction.


lake of hell? There is no lake of hell, only a lake of fire.

Revelation 20:14 And death and hell were cast into the lake of fire. This is the second death.

notice how it says death and hell were cast


Secondly, the soul is defined in the Bible as flesh and blood itself.


there are only five verses that refer to flesh and blood in the Bible.

Matthew 16:17 And Jesus answered and said unto him, Blessed art thou, Simon Barjona: for flesh and blood hath not revealed it unto thee, but my Father which is in heaven.

1 Corinthians 15:50 Now this I say, brethren, that flesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdom of God; neither doth corruption inherit incorruption.

Galatians 1:16 To reveal his Son in me, that I might preach him among the heathen; immediately I conferred not with flesh and blood:

Ephesians 6:12 For we wrestle not against flesh and blood, but against principalities, against powers, against the rulers of the darkness of this world, against spiritual wickedness in high places.

Hebrews 2:14 Forasmuch then as the children are partakers of flesh and blood, he also himself likewise took part of the same; that through death he might destroy him that had the power of death, that is, the devil;

how is soul defined?

.


Once again, refer to Job, then read those references you provided over again and decide for yourself if you're -trying- to believe something or if you really do believe something. Regardless, the truth speaks for itself.



There are only 13 passages that refer to the grave and only 2 that refer to hell. two different places.



[edit on 14-11-2009 by oliveoil]



posted on Nov, 14 2009 @ 03:22 PM
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If hell is real, this is why it doesnt make sense.

Sure it makes sense! Act like a tool and you go too hell "it makes perfect sense!"



posted on Nov, 14 2009 @ 06:40 PM
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Originally posted by dominicus
I have a friend who's a Christian, hard core into it, and he was in a huge car wreck, had a near death experience, and went to Hell. This is a Christian man who went to hell. Before this he was 100% sure he was saved. So what do you have to say now?


Umm, unless you are God, I don't think you can say definatively that this man is/was a Christian. How can you possibly know this man's heart/mind? Judas walked with the Lord himself for years, and none of the other disciples had a clue he was evil. Jesus speaks about many people that call themselves followers, but will end up in hell.

Matt 7:21
Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven

We are even given a simple Christian test in 1 John 2:3-5

And hereby we do know that we know him, if we keep his commandments. He that saith, I know him, and keepeth not his commandments, is a liar, and the truth is not in him. But whoso keepeth his word, in him verily is the love of God perfected: hereby know we that we are in him.




Its simply impossible to live up to God's moral standards unless you lock yourself in cave, dont talk to anyone, and have complete control over all of your thoughts, actions, lusts, emotions, etc.


I agree 100%. That is why we are all doomed to hell, unless we put our faith in what Jesus did on the cross. Accept the fact that you are a sinner, and are not a good person. God hates proud, self righteous people, remember how He spoke to the pharisees that thought God cared about their foolish works/traditions?
Luke 16:15
"Ye are they which justify yourselves before men; but God knoweth your hearts: for that which is highly esteemed among men is abomination in the sight of God."



You see you are just repeating whats in the Bible, what preachers have told you. Just like my Christian friend was 100% sure he was saved from hell, and still went there. So how do you know


Actually, I am just repeating what Jesus has told us. I know that there is nothing I can say or do that will earn me favor in God's eyes. I have already failed the moral perfection test. We all have. This is where the faith comes in, I am leaning on the promises of God. I believe that Jesus has done 100% of the work. He took the punnishment that was meant for me. I don't have a righteousness of my own, He promised that the Father will see His righteousness instead of my filth when I stand before Him. BUT... this all hinges on recognizing the fact that I am a sinner, and trusting exclusively in what He has done for me. The Bible could not be more specific about this. The good works that I do now, have nothing to do with trying to earn salvation. They are simply to glorify God, and show Him how thankful I am for everything He has done. Have I quit sinning? No, we never can, until we are in His presence. There is a difference between stumbling and diving, we do not have a lisence to sin. God forgives His servants, and continues to grow them in holiness. Why would you willfully/continually trample on the greatest gift you have ever been given? (you would only if it's not important to you...)

John 6:37-40
All that the Father gives Me shall come to Me, and the one who comes to Me I will certainly not cast out. “For I have come down from heaven, not to do My own will, but the will of Him who sent Me. “And this is the will of Him who sent Me, that of all that He has given Me I lose nothing, but raise it up on the last day. “For this is the will of My Father, that everyone who beholds the Son and believes in Him, may have eternal life; and I Myself will raise him up on the last day

John 10:27
My sheep hear my voice, and I know them, and they follow me: And I give unto them eternal life; and they shall never perish, neither shall any man pluck them out of my hand.



posted on Nov, 14 2009 @ 07:00 PM
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Originally posted by dominicus
Its simply impossible to live up to God's moral standards unless you lock yourself in cave, dont talk to anyone, and have complete control over all of your thoughts, actions, lusts, emotions, etc.


What I failed to mention is that once we submit to God, He then frees us from being slaves to sin. We are given a new heart, mind/desires and personal guidance. That is what the whole "Born Again" term means. We are a different person alltogether than what we used to be. As a Christian, sin no longer rules, and wanting to live more like Christ is one's main desire. I can even testify of this, because prior to being "Born Again", having a right standing before God was the last thing on my mind.

John 3:3
Jesus answered and said unto him, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born again, he cannot see the kingdom of God



posted on Nov, 20 2009 @ 08:05 PM
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What I failed to mention is that once we submit to God, He then frees us from being slaves to sin. We are given a new heart, mind/desires and personal guidance. That is what the whole "Born Again" term means. We are a different person alltogether than what we used to be. As a Christian, sin no longer rules, and wanting to live more like Christ is one's main desire. I can even testify of this, because prior to being "Born Again", having a right standing before God was the last thing on my mind.


Sorry man, been there done that. I myself "try" to walk w/ God and have defiinitely changed from the old ways. But I would like to cut all sin off and never sin again. I bet you still fall to old ways and will continue to probably for the rest of life.

I have in my mind also a constant evaluation on how to destroy certain things out of my life and have prayed for relief from lusts and other things only for them to come back even stronger. My theory is complete annihilation of the ego can get you to a place of no longer sinning (like Paul says "I die to the self daily"

Oh and for the guy who "thinks" my buddies NDE was all in his mind, he says himself come out of his body, saw them operating on him and difibulators, felt the weather outside, the emotions and conversations of doctors in his room and on other floors and other things that dont correlate with it being "just in the mind". I dont buy your explanation one bit. I too have had ou of body experiences and I would bet my own human life that they were not products of the mind ...these experiences were beyond the mind and left the mind in the body while they happened.



posted on Nov, 20 2009 @ 09:07 PM
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Hell is a real place even if you refuse to accept it. When Jesus died on the cross, He took away the sin of the world. That means all the sin of the world was laid upon Him and He took it away with His death. When He was resurrected He defeated death. What does that mean for you and me..? It means that your debt of sin was paid for and all you have to do is accept it in what Christ did to receive that salvation. Refusal to do so is to condemn yourself to hell. People are judged three ways. First there are the saved who accept Christ. Then there are those who never heard about Jesus. They will be judged for what they know is good and evil. All of their works will be judged, yet those who have never heard of Jesus have never rejected Jesus. It is possible that those who would have gladly accepted him will be saved. Then there are those who reject Christ. These do not like Jesus nor do they want Him asking them to do anything. Their names will most likely be blotted out because they reject the only salvation offered by God to mankind. They will go from hell where they are held upon death and shall be sent to what is called the lake of fire.

So, in the end you only have yourself to blame if you go to hell. No one is sending you there, you choose to go by rejecting Christ.



posted on Nov, 20 2009 @ 09:50 PM
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This is the way I see it:

The devil would never punish me for sinning due to the fact that he loves sin and he was created to tempt man into sinning(yes, even before god supposedly kicked him out of heaven his job was to get you to sin).

God would never punish me because he is supposed to be all loving and the ultimate good. A being that is completely good couldn't punish anybody. This means that you couldn't be punished no matter what you do.

Btw, I'm an agnostic/atheist so I don't really believe in this stuff, I am just stating what would happen if the bible is 100% correct.



posted on Nov, 21 2009 @ 07:02 PM
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reply to post by dominicus
 


Your idea of Hell is wrong. Hell is a deliberate separation from God. That is it. It is not being Christ-like.

You either love God or you don't.



posted on Nov, 21 2009 @ 07:59 PM
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WoW, I can't believe I read through almost every post on this thread. The circular logic debate going on here about heaven and hell would be comical if it wasn't for you people that actually follow "christianity" and believe in these places called "heaven" and "hell".

Any religion that forces you to obey or else suffer the consequences, is a false religion. Any religion that alllows you to ask questions in order to attain enlightenment from the inside so you can ascend towards this truth/"god", is a "true"r religion.

I would have participated in this convo 15 years ago when I was young, fearful, and had doubts about "christianity". I've known now for many, many years that it is 100%, without a doubt, a complete farce.

I wish you all good luck on getting out of the "hell" called christianity.



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