An individual is born on this planet into biased surroundings that will have overwhelming odds against being Judeo-Christian, will inevitably sin, has no choice in being created, and if they don't choose Christ they go to Hell.

I mean it doesnt make sense at all. Nobody is perfect or like Christ. It seems like an impossibility to live Christ-Like unless your in a cave with no internet, TV, women, etc. In this case pretty much the majority of us are going to Hell for all of eternity according to the Bible.

I've brought this up to Pastors, theologians, preachers and response is always the same; "Yes this is the way it is because God is a just God!!!"

Honestly if that's the case, let's say I knew before I was created that the catch is:

You will exist on this earth, and you only have a small minute chance of ever being saved and going to Heaven when the majority doesnt make it there. The odds are against you.

I would have never signed up for this, since it would be better to never have existed, than to exist with odds against you and because you choose the wrong path or keep falling to sins with temptation all around you and a body that constantly produces its own set of temptations ....because of this going to hell for all of eternity.

It just wouldnt be worth it, this existence. It would have been better to just never had existed in the first place. Anyone agree?



[edit on 10-11-2009 by dominicus]

I agree. Almost everything modern society offers us is a sin in some way; or at least it can be interpreted as one. I used to think about this often, and sometimes I'd say to myself "well...maybe I should try and go back to God." Then after about a day out-and-about, I think again "Yeah, there's no way to be pure around here...what's the catch, God?"

So many religions with no definitive proof of God or the afterlife. Why am I going to spend my entire life worrying about whether or not I will go to heaven, or be reincarnated, or whatever? We're here now. I say better to live your life as best you can now, do what you have to do to be happy; because you might live 100 years, or you might die next week.

Personally I find I'm a happier person when I live my life a little purer, but it has nothing to do with Christianity, I just feel better when I do it; more responsible, more respectable, organized, happier, more active, etc.

Just my 2 cents, thanks.

Wasn't Jesus' girlfriend a prostitute? Seems like maybe that is an early version of the National Equirer scandal....or was it?

I've spoken to theologians and priests and nuns about this, all catholic, and it seems the going answer is this:

a just person will be recognized as such by god. ghandi would go to heaven..so would any good jew, or muslim, or buddist or what have you.


and besides...gods got this whole just ask for forgiveness clause...so whatever right?

Originally posted by dominicus

I mean it doesnt make sense at all. Nobody is perfect or like Christ. It seems like an impossibility to live Christ-Like unless your in a cave with no internet, TV, women, etc. In this case pretty much the majority of us are going to Hell for all of eternity according to the Bible.


[edit on 10-11-2009 by dominicus]

Try reading...
Jesus died so you can go to heaven instead of hell.
His blood cleanses you and makes you justified ( just as if you have never sinned) to God.
Gods grace is great, and even if you make errors you can just as for forgiveness and get on with it....

If we all lived a little like Christ then the world would be such a better place....do small things, give some food away...talk to some one that looks like they need help, dont judge people - accept them instead no matter what they are /do, dont conform to what you think others want, be yourself...
Love is the key...

It's not impossible to live a little more like Jesus...just start with one thing...

It's your free will /choice if you go to hell and it's got nothing to do with your ideas as expressed in 1st post.

Basically everyone who has not heard of Jesus Christ and what he did on the cross is given a conscience. In those cases they will be judged based on the scripture below:

Romans 1:18-32 (New International Version)

18The wrath of God is being revealed from heaven against all the godlessness and wickedness of men who suppress the truth by their wickedness, 19since what may be known about God is plain to them, because God has made it plain to them. 20For since the creation of the world God's invisible qualities—his eternal power and divine nature—have been clearly seen, being understood from what has been made, so that men are without excuse.

21For although they knew God, they neither glorified him as God nor gave thanks to him, but their thinking became futile and their foolish hearts were darkened. 22Although they claimed to be wise, they became fools 23and exchanged the glory of the immortal God for images made to look like mortal man and birds and animals and reptiles.

24Therefore God gave them over in the sinful desires of their hearts to sexual impurity for the degrading of their bodies with one another. 25They exchanged the truth of God for a lie, and worshiped and served created things rather than the Creator—who is forever praised. Amen.

26Because of this, God gave them over to shameful lusts. Even their women exchanged natural relations for unnatural ones. 27In the same way the men also abandoned natural relations with women and were inflamed with lust for one another. Men committed indecent acts with other men, and received in themselves the due penalty for their perversion.

28Furthermore, since they did not think it worthwhile to retain the knowledge of God, he gave them over to a depraved mind, to do what ought not to be done. 29They have become filled with every kind of wickedness, evil, greed and depravity. They are full of envy, murder, strife, deceit and malice. They are gossips, 30slanderers, God-haters, insolent, arrogant and boastful; they invent ways of doing evil; they disobey their parents; 31they are senseless, faithless, heartless, ruthless. 32Although they know God's righteous decree that those who do such things deserve death, they not only continue to do these very things but also approve of those who practice them.

Also in relation to conscience:

Romans 2:14-16 (New International Version)

14(Indeed, when Gentiles, who do not have the law, do by nature things required by the law, they are a law for themselves, even though they do not have the law, 15since they show that the requirements of the law are written on their hearts, their consciences also bearing witness, and their thoughts now accusing, now even defending them.) 16This will take place on the day when God will judge men's secrets through Jesus Christ, as my gospel declares.

But also consider Jesus' words:

Matthew 12:30-32 (New International Version)

30"He who is not with me is against me, and he who does not gather with me scatters. 31And so I tell you, every sin and blasphemy will be forgiven men, but the blasphemy against the Spirit will not be forgiven. 32Anyone who speaks a word against the Son of Man will be forgiven, but anyone who speaks against the Holy Spirit will not be forgiven, either in this age or in the age to come.

My own bold emphasis added.

Originally posted by dominicus
You will exist on this earth, and you only have a small minute chance of ever being saved and going to Heaven when the majority doesnt make it there. The odds are against you.

I would have never signed up for this, since it would be better to never have existed, than to exist with odds against you and because you choose the wrong path or keep falling to sins with temptation all around you and a body that constantly produces its own set of temptations ....because of this going to hell for all of eternity.

Yes, if we only have a choice at this(before birth or conception or w/e), it would be stupidity of unimaginable proportions to gamble your eternity for anything... Unless of course you're trying to rescue those souls, then it would be stupidly heroic...

there is a hell.. and your in it

I don't fear any hell. I don't crave any heaven. What I fear is that I will die and simply go back to the beginning of my own life to live it all over again.

Think of it as we are all tethered to a small slice of time. The tether stretches like a a giant rubber band as we move forward in time until our death and then it snaps us back to the very beginning again.

Granted I don't know if this is what actually happens. I only know I hope to "hell" it's not.

eternal hell doesnt make sense for another reason..

a just god would have no excuse to damn any soul to an eternal hell. hitler for example, in the 56 years he lived in earth there is nothing he could have done that would constitute an eternal punishment. you might be able to punish him for 10 billion years, but eventually his time would be up. what would make more sense to me is a spirtual death

Hell is a poorly conceived concept anyway.

Why would an omnipotent entity need to create such a place?
Why would an omniscient entity want to create such a place?
How would an omnibenevolent entity justify such a place?

He knows what you're going to do before he creates you, has the power to create you in a way that you won't do that, and being infinitely good and loving, would just forgive you for it anyway.

Either god is not all-powerful, all-knowing, and all-good, or hell doesn't exist.

Now, if we're dealing with much more limited beings (such as say, the Norse pantheon) then I can see hell working. But it seems quite a foreign idea considering the Abrahamic idea of god.