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Do women have a human right to taxpayer paid abortions? I don't think so!

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posted on Nov, 11 2009 @ 11:49 PM
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reply to post by Blue_Jay33
 


I am sure there are some out there that are pro-choice to the ninth month but I am pretty sure it is illegal at some point before nine months. Isn't it?




posted on Nov, 11 2009 @ 11:51 PM
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Originally posted by Zerra

Originally posted by galatea

Originally posted by Blue_Jay33


An Unborn Baby At 20 Weeks




Now the Pro-Choice people are saying that the above baby has no rights that the mother can kill it, under her freedom of choice AND they want the government to pay for it on top of it.

I just don't get why people are so heartless and cruel that they think that ending a being like we see above should be a choice.

Don't you think this little baby deserves some protection from a civilized society?



I'm pro choice.. however I don't think women should have abortions past 12 weeks gestation.. first trimester.

20 weeks.. some babies can survive if born then.
Out of pure curiousity and the need to understand others peceptions better, what is after 12 weeks opposed to prior (say 11th week, or 9th week) that makes the difference for your belief system? thankyou for your time ^_^

[edit on 11-11-2009 by Zerra]


Because a baby can't survive if born in the first trimester of pregnancy.. therefore, IMO, it's not "murder" as most of you are putting it. Doctors, even mine when I was pregnant say that a baby can survive (sometimes) if born at 20 weeks.. so I guess people could have an abortion in between 12-20 weeks but to me that's a little late because the baby could live.

I know it "absurd" to those that are pro life.. I'm not pro death but I would think those wanting to get an abortion would want to do it earlier in the pregnancy. If you are already so far along to where the baby would survive then there is always adoption.



posted on Nov, 11 2009 @ 11:51 PM
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Originally posted by Abba Rexus

Originally posted by snusfanatic
reply to post by HotSauce
 


feminist: I HAVE A RIGHT TO AN ABORTION.

america: to each his own. be free.

feminist: NOW PAY FOR IT.

___

I didn't realize this debate wasn't about autonomy and freedom of privacy. I guess it's really about your human right to have your choices funded by the collective. Thanks for the free education....


homosexual: I HAVE A RIGHT TO HAVE SEX WITH WHOMEVER I PLEASE

america: to each his own. be free.

homosexual: AND A RIGHT NOT TO BE DISCRIMINATED AGAINST

america: ok homosexual, you got it

homosexual: AND A RIGHT TO HAVE ONE OF YOUR MOST FUNDAMENTAL SOCIAL STRUCTURES COMPLETELY REVISED



america: whoah hold on there

homosexual: AND YOU CANNOT SAY HUSBAND AND WIFE, YOU MUST USE PARTNER

america: what???

homosexual: AND YOUR CHILDREN WILL BE TAUGHT THAT ANAL SEX IS NATURAL AND GOOD FOR YOU IN PUBLIC SCHOOLS (actually been proposed)

america: WTF

homosexual: I DONT CARE WHAT YOU THINK, I WORK FOR THE ROCKEFELLERS AND THEY DONT WANT YOU BREEDING. BEFORE YOU KNOW IT YOUR KIDS WONT KNOW THE DIFFERENCE BETWEEN A BLOW JOB AND A NATURAL AND LOVING RELATIONSHIP. ALL IN THE NAME OF FREEDOM. IM JUST SOME LOST AND PATHOLOGICAL NARCISSIST I DONT REALLY KNOW WHAT IM DOING, BUT IN COLLEGE THEY PROMOTE THIS BEHAVIOR (WHICH IS WHEN I 'CAME OUT OF THE CLOSET'). I ACTUALLY THINK IM WORKING FOR 'FREEDOM'.

america: holy !@#$ing crap!

America, can't you see that the LGBT is not about 'rights' its about an agenda? its about turning you into a homosexual. its not paranoia, look and see what policies actually get implemented and you will see this is exactly whats its about. Same can be said for Abortion. Its not about rights, its about not reproducing.



Wow, this is an unusual take on paying for abortion. Darn those homosexuals and their pesky needs for committed relationships. Don't they know that marriage was invented by the Christian community and absolutely nooooo other culture had it before them? the nerve.



posted on Nov, 11 2009 @ 11:52 PM
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Originally posted by Blue_Jay33
It's interesting that some are pro-choice with a waiver, no abortions after X time.

Is anybody pro-choice right up until 9 months?


Well aren't most of you anti abortion with a waiver? You are all against it unless said mother is raped or there is incest involved.



posted on Nov, 11 2009 @ 11:54 PM
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Originally posted by HotSauce
reply to post by Blue_Jay33
 


I am sure there are some out there that are pro-choice to the ninth month but I am pretty sure it is illegal at some point before nine months. Isn't it?


Well then I guess I'm pro-choice with waivers. Because if someone has an abortion at 8 months.. c'mon.. I would hope nobody would have one that late in the pregnancy.

And I think abortion should be limited to 12 weeks or earlier.

And I think partial birth abortions are illegal. At least they used to be.



posted on Nov, 11 2009 @ 11:55 PM
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reply to post by galatea
 


I am really against it under all circumstances but I am willing to bend to a degree. Can't get everything you want when it comes to politics.


I have a friend that is a product of a rape.. so I can see the good people that can come from that type of situation.. though I am sure it was hard on his mother.He is now a missionary is south america helping the poor.



posted on Nov, 12 2009 @ 12:00 AM
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Originally posted by HotSauce
reply to post by galatea
 


I am really against it under all circumstances but I am willing to bend to a degree. Can't get everything you want when it comes to politics.


I have a friend that is a product of a rape.. so I can see the good people that can come from that type of situation.. though I am sure it was hard on his mother.He is now a missionary is south america helping the poor.


I would like to see what you think about this situation.

When I was in middle school my family moved to a different state. I was in the eighth grade and one of the girls on my basketball team had a 2 year old daughter.. than means she had her in the 6th grade. The father of the kid was this girl's uncle.. but the family was catholic and made her have the child, even though she didn't want to.

So what about children girls that get raped, or violated what options should they have? Since they are minors and get no say.

I already know that you said you are for abortion in this circumstance.. but a lot of those women are adults and get to have the abortions.. what about kids...

complicated. I just always remember feeling bad for her.. having a daughter that's also your cousin.



posted on Nov, 12 2009 @ 12:06 AM
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reply to post by galatea
 


Really I would leave that up to the girl and her family and hopefully children services. That is messed up. I hope her father killed the uncle.



posted on Nov, 12 2009 @ 12:17 AM
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Originally posted by galatea

Originally posted by Zerra

Originally posted by galatea

Originally posted by Blue_Jay33


An Unborn Baby At 20 Weeks




Now the Pro-Choice people are saying that the above baby has no rights that the mother can kill it, under her freedom of choice AND they want the government to pay for it on top of it.

I just don't get why people are so heartless and cruel that they think that ending a being like we see above should be a choice.

Don't you think this little baby deserves some protection from a civilized society?



I'm pro choice.. however I don't think women should have abortions past 12 weeks gestation.. first trimester.

20 weeks.. some babies can survive if born then.
Out of pure curiousity and the need to understand others peceptions better, what is after 12 weeks opposed to prior (say 11th week, or 9th week) that makes the difference for your belief system? thankyou for your time ^_^

[edit on 11-11-2009 by Zerra]


Because a baby can't survive if born in the first trimester of pregnancy.. therefore, IMO, it's not "murder" as most of you are putting it. Doctors, even mine when I was pregnant say that a baby can survive (sometimes) if born at 20 weeks.. so I guess people could have an abortion in between 12-20 weeks but to me that's a little late because the baby could live.

I know it "absurd" to those that are pro life.. I'm not pro death but I would think those wanting to get an abortion would want to do it earlier in the pregnancy. If you are already so far along to where the baby would survive then there is always adoption.



Machines are life savers (as a premie I know! ^_^)-but without the use of technological intervention premies are as good as dead. My appeal to you is that no baby may survive after birth without human intervention of some sort. For myself (maybe not for you) this makes all stages similar-in that they are desperately in need and incapable of being without us. We may be able to help a 12+ week old in the emergency that a birth takes place more so than an 8 week old...but in the end, are both not capable of the exact same sensation of pain and suffering that abortion would destined them too? Their awareness and sensations are developed a lot more early on. I do really respect your views and think it is great that you draw the line at a certain stage of pregnancy. I wish more people would if anything.



posted on Nov, 12 2009 @ 12:39 AM
link   

Originally posted by Blue_Jay33


An Unborn Baby At 20 Weeks




Now the Pro-Choice people are saying that the above baby has no rights that the mother can kill it, under her freedom of choice AND they want the government to pay for it on top of it.

I just don't get why people are so heartless and cruel that they think that ending a being like we see above should be a choice.

Don't you think this little baby deserves some protection from a civilized society?



Blue_Jay33 and others,

Absolutely not. This baby does not deserve protection from a civilized society. Especially and particularly if there are votes at stake to get elected or re elected. This baby must die as well as others and also in order to maintain this gauranteed, predictable, malliable female voting block...it must be free and available to all...on the public purse. Especially female voting blocks in high electorial vote states.

Not only must you provide at public expense such options for the females ...you must feminize the males to go along with it or at least be silent.

What on earth are you thinking Blue_Jay33 ??. Don't you believe in a Civilized Society??

Thanks,
Orangetom



posted on Nov, 12 2009 @ 12:41 AM
link   

Originally posted by galatea

Originally posted by HotSauce
reply to post by galatea
 


I am really against it under all circumstances but I am willing to bend to a degree. Can't get everything you want when it comes to politics.


I have a friend that is a product of a rape.. so I can see the good people that can come from that type of situation.. though I am sure it was hard on his mother.He is now a missionary is south america helping the poor.


I would like to see what you think about this situation.

When I was in middle school my family moved to a different state. I was in the eighth grade and one of the girls on my basketball team had a 2 year old daughter.. than means she had her in the 6th grade. The father of the kid was this girl's uncle.. but the family was catholic and made her have the child, even though she didn't want to.

So what about children girls that get raped, or violated what options should they have? Since they are minors and get no say.

I already know that you said you are for abortion in this circumstance.. but a lot of those women are adults and get to have the abortions.. what about kids...

complicated. I just always remember feeling bad for her.. having a daughter that's also your cousin.


I 'd like to suggest my post above ^^ may be relevant to this issue. The post about pro feminism and how abortion is not really a 'choice'. It suggests that parents and other circumstances force women (or in this case a child) to undergo their own agenda (whether they told her to keep it or have an abortion the 'choice' would not be hers to make). The route issue here is child victimization/child sexual abuse, not abortion vs pro life. (as my post speaks of). Both children-the 6th grader and the baby are victims. It's such a heartbreaking situation. I hope that Uncle was punished for his crimes, he victimized two souls in this.

There is a book called "Conceived in Rape-from worthless to Priceless"

For interests sake I'll quote her website-It is not often we get this perspective.

"Please understand that whenever you identify yourself as being “pro-choice,” or whenever you make that exception for rape, what that really translates into is you being able to stand before me, look me in the eye, and say to me, "I think your mother should have been able to abort you.”... I've often experienced those who would confront me and try to dismiss me with quick quips like, “Oh well, you were lucky!” Be sure that my survival has nothing to do with luck. The fact that I’m alive today has to do with choices that were made
by our society at large, people who fought to ensure abortion was illegal in Michigan at the time – even in cases of rape,
people who argued to protect my life, and people who voted pro-life. I wasn’t lucky. I was protected
source www.rebeccakiessling.com...

The author's birthmother apparently went to two 'dark alley way' type abortion places before having her...Interesting story.


[edit on 12-11-2009 by Zerra]

[edit on 12-11-2009 by Zerra]



posted on Nov, 12 2009 @ 12:43 AM
link   

Originally posted by HotSauce
reply to post by galatea
 


Really I would leave that up to the girl and her family and hopefully children services. That is messed up. I hope her father killed the uncle.


I wish that someone would have contacted child services and it was messed up. I have no idea what the father did to the uncle LOL.



posted on Nov, 12 2009 @ 12:45 AM
link   

Originally posted by Zerra

Originally posted by galatea

Originally posted by Zerra

Originally posted by galatea

Originally posted by Blue_Jay33


An Unborn Baby At 20 Weeks




Now the Pro-Choice people are saying that the above baby has no rights that the mother can kill it, under her freedom of choice AND they want the government to pay for it on top of it.

I just don't get why people are so heartless and cruel that they think that ending a being like we see above should be a choice.

Don't you think this little baby deserves some protection from a civilized society?



I'm pro choice.. however I don't think women should have abortions past 12 weeks gestation.. first trimester.

20 weeks.. some babies can survive if born then.
Out of pure curiousity and the need to understand others peceptions better, what is after 12 weeks opposed to prior (say 11th week, or 9th week) that makes the difference for your belief system? thankyou for your time ^_^

[edit on 11-11-2009 by Zerra]


Because a baby can't survive if born in the first trimester of pregnancy.. therefore, IMO, it's not "murder" as most of you are putting it. Doctors, even mine when I was pregnant say that a baby can survive (sometimes) if born at 20 weeks.. so I guess people could have an abortion in between 12-20 weeks but to me that's a little late because the baby could live.

I know it "absurd" to those that are pro life.. I'm not pro death but I would think those wanting to get an abortion would want to do it earlier in the pregnancy. If you are already so far along to where the baby would survive then there is always adoption.



Machines are life savers (as a premie I know! ^_^)-but without the use of technological intervention premies are as good as dead. My appeal to you is that no baby may survive after birth without human intervention of some sort. For myself (maybe not for you) this makes all stages similar-in that they are desperately in need and incapable of being without us. We may be able to help a 12+ week old in the emergency that a birth takes place more so than an 8 week old...but in the end, are both not capable of the exact same sensation of pain and suffering that abortion would destined them too? Their awareness and sensations are developed a lot more early on. I do really respect your views and think it is great that you draw the line at a certain stage of pregnancy. I wish more people would if anything.


I respect your views too, opinions are never wrong because they are opinions.

I like how this thread hasn't become tacky and it's nice to have a debate. So kudos to the op.



posted on Nov, 12 2009 @ 12:46 AM
link   

Originally posted by orangetom1999

Originally posted by Blue_Jay33


An Unborn Baby At 20 Weeks




Now the Pro-Choice people are saying that the above baby has no rights that the mother can kill it, under her freedom of choice AND they want the government to pay for it on top of it.

I just don't get why people are so heartless and cruel that they think that ending a being like we see above should be a choice.

Don't you think this little baby deserves some protection from a civilized society?



Blue_Jay33 and others,

Absolutely not. This baby does not deserve protection from a civilized society. Especially and particularly if there are votes at stake to get elected or re elected. This baby must die as well as others and also in order to maintain this gauranteed, predictable, malliable female voting block...it must be free and available to all...on the public purse. Especially female voting blocks in high electorial vote states.

Not only must you provide at public expense such options for the females ...you must feminize the males to go along with it or at least be silent.

What on earth are you thinking Blue_Jay33 ??. Don't you believe in a Civilized Society??

Thanks,
Orangetom



whiskey tango foxtrot.



posted on Nov, 12 2009 @ 12:49 AM
link   
As for abortions for rape, I know of an instance of a rape where the mother was told by everybody to get an abortion, but she kept it anyway.

And I happen to see the child, a girl a few years later a very cute and very happy child oblivious to the circumstances that created her.

It really made me think about the issue, that child was enjoying the joys of life, yet her conception was act of terrible violence, for which neither the mother or the child was to blame.

One possible solution is adoption in this situation.



posted on Nov, 12 2009 @ 12:49 AM
link   

Originally posted by Zerra

Originally posted by galatea

Originally posted by HotSauce
reply to post by galatea
 


I am really against it under all circumstances but I am willing to bend to a degree. Can't get everything you want when it comes to politics.


I have a friend that is a product of a rape.. so I can see the good people that can come from that type of situation.. though I am sure it was hard on his mother.He is now a missionary is south america helping the poor.


I would like to see what you think about this situation.

When I was in middle school my family moved to a different state. I was in the eighth grade and one of the girls on my basketball team had a 2 year old daughter.. than means she had her in the 6th grade. The father of the kid was this girl's uncle.. but the family was catholic and made her have the child, even though she didn't want to.

So what about children girls that get raped, or violated what options should they have? Since they are minors and get no say.

I already know that you said you are for abortion in this circumstance.. but a lot of those women are adults and get to have the abortions.. what about kids...

complicated. I just always remember feeling bad for her.. having a daughter that's also your cousin.


I 'd like to suggest my post above ^^ may be relevant to this issue. The post about pro feminism and how abortion is not really a 'choice'. It suggests that parents and other circumstances force women (or in this case a child) to undergo their own agenda (whether they told her to keep it or have an abortion the 'choice' would not be hers to make). The route issue here is child victimization/child sexual abuse, not abortion vs pro life. (as my post speaks of). Both children-the 6th grader and the baby are victims. It's such a heartbreaking situation. I hope that Uncle was punished for his crimes, he victimized two souls in this.

There is a book called "Conceived in Rape-from worthless to Priceless"

For interests sake I'll quote her website-It is not often we get this perspective.

"Please understand that whenever you identify yourself as being “pro-choice,” or whenever you make that exception for rape, what that really translates into is you being able to stand before me, look me in the eye, and say to me, "I think your mother should have been able to abort you.”... I've often experienced those who would confront me and try to dismiss me with quick quips like, “Oh well, you were lucky!” Be sure that my survival has nothing to do with luck. The fact that I’m alive today has to do with choices that were made
by our society at large, people who fought to ensure abortion was illegal in Michigan at the time – even in cases of rape,
people who argued to protect my life, and people who voted pro-life. I wasn’t lucky. I was protected
source www.rebeccakiessling.com...




[edit on 12-11-2009 by Zerra]


It's sad. I can see all of your points.

I don't make the best debater because I can see where everyone's points of view comes from...

With that said, that's why I hope tptb allow each individual to choose what's best in their life and their situation because at the end of the day, I can't choose what's best for you and your life (you being general), only you can.



posted on Nov, 12 2009 @ 12:50 AM
link   

Originally posted by Blue_Jay33
As for abortions for rape, I know of an instance of a rape where the mother was told by everybody to get an abortion, but she kept it anyway.

And I happen to see the child, a girl a few years later a very cute and very happy child oblivious to the circumstances that created her.

It really made me think about the issue, that child was enjoying the joys of life, yet her conception was act of terrible violence, for which neither the mother or the child was to blame.

One possible solution is adoption in this situation.


What about a 12 year old that's raped by a relative and conceives a child... and incest usually results in birth defects.. plus most 12 year olds bodies aren't ready for giving birth... just wondering what you think.



posted on Nov, 12 2009 @ 12:53 AM
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So hypothetical situation:

Let's say abortion becomes illegal, except for rape cases.

Would said mother have to prove that she was raped to have said abortion?



posted on Nov, 12 2009 @ 12:56 AM
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Originally posted by galatea

Originally posted by Blue_Jay33
As for abortions for rape, I know of an instance of a rape where the mother was told by everybody to get an abortion, but she kept it anyway.

And I happen to see the child, a girl a few years later a very cute and very happy child oblivious to the circumstances that created her.

It really made me think about the issue, that child was enjoying the joys of life, yet her conception was act of terrible violence, for which neither the mother or the child was to blame.

One possible solution is adoption in this situation.


What about a 12 year old that's raped by a relative and conceives a child... and incest usually results in birth defects.. plus most 12 year olds bodies aren't ready for giving birth... just wondering what you think.


I agree with you that their body is just not ready for birth, I just want to point out that incest is more of a cultural taboo than a genetic disaster. It will take many generations of 'inbreeding' for this to happen and many cultures it is okay to marry your cousin.
For us, it's more so of a taboo that will have very serious social, psychological, and emotional consequences. This is risky /harmful enough though.



posted on Nov, 12 2009 @ 01:00 AM
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reply to post by galatea
 




What about a 12 year old that's raped by a relative and conceives a child... and incest usually results in birth defects.. plus most 12 year olds bodies aren't ready for giving birth... just wondering what you think.


That's a really hard one, and sadly, I am sure it has happened.
I try and think of it in terms if it happened to my daughter...what would I do?
I would like to think I know, but really I don't, because the emotional level would be so high.



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